Author: "Chris" <toaster73@...> Time: Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:01 pm PST Link
Hello
I am looking at the deburring situation as I progress on my VS. Using the speed handle can create a small countersink situation if over done. I understand this is not ideal. But it seems that the speed deburring doesn't always catch the edge which you can feel with a finger nail. I have seen pictures of a wing in progress on Van's site and the rivet lines appear to be all scuffed up. Are they running back over the holes with a scotch bright pad? Do we need to worry about the finger nail test or just use the feeling of sharpness as you pass your finger tip across the hole as a guide? Its as though I my holes aren't sharp after the speed deburring but I can catch my finger nail on some of them.
thanks
Chris L
#72
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@...> Time: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:09 am PST Link
>Hello
>I am looking at the deburring situation as I progress on my VS. Using the
>speed handle can create a small countersink situation if over done. I
>understand this is not ideal. But it seems that the speed deburring doesn't
>always catch the edge which you can feel with a finger nail. I have seen
>pictures of a wing in progress on Van's site and the rivet lines appear to
>be all scuffed up. Are they running back over the holes with a scotch
>bright pad? Do we need to worry about the finger nail test or just use the
>feeling of sharpness as you pass your finger tip across the hole as a
>guide? Its as though I my holes aren't sharp after the speed deburring but
>I can catch my finger nail on some of them.
>thanks
>Chris L
>#72
You're not trying to achieve a polished edge here, just knock off the burrs
so the resulting riveted assembly doesn't have metal chips in between the
parts. All it takes is one rotation of the countersink cutter (or whatever
implement you use) to take off the burr and it's good to go.
Obsession over the tiny details is very common with first time builders.
You'll get over it soon enough! I use the "drag the finger over the hole"
test to see if it's good enough to rivet. You may find down the road some
instances where you can't get anything in there to deburr except maybe for a
file or scotchbrite pad. You just knock 'em off as best you can and move
on. The scuffing you see along rivet lines may be prepatory to primer
application, as I do. I scuff with scotchbrite pad, clean with acetone or
lacquer thinner, then prime.
Have fun!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD four years of RV grins
RV10 40051
_________________________________________________________________
>From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
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Author: "Chris" <toaster73@...> Time: Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:44 am PST Link
Thanks Brian.
One other question- how well should the dimpling in the skin nest in the
countersink holes in the spar for example? Should it be so flush a fit that
you can't see light between the parts when clecoed?
Thanks
Chris L.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@h...>
To: <RV10@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [RV10] DeBurrrrrr Question
> >Hello
> >I am looking at the deburring situation as I progress on my VS. Using the
> >speed handle can create a small countersink situation if over done. I
> >understand this is not ideal. But it seems that the speed deburring
doesn't
> >always catch the edge which you can feel with a finger nail. I have seen
> >pictures of a wing in progress on Van's site and the rivet lines appear
to
> >be all scuffed up. Are they running back over the holes with a scotch
> >bright pad? Do we need to worry about the finger nail test or just use
the
> >feeling of sharpness as you pass your finger tip across the hole as a
> >guide? Its as though I my holes aren't sharp after the speed deburring
but
> >I can catch my finger nail on some of them.
> >thanks
> >Chris L
> >#72
> You're not trying to achieve a polished edge here, just knock off the
burrs
> so the resulting riveted assembly doesn't have metal chips in between the
> parts. All it takes is one rotation of the countersink cutter (or
whatever
> implement you use) to take off the burr and it's good to go.
>
> Obsession over the tiny details is very common with first time builders.
> You'll get over it soon enough! I use the "drag the finger over the hole"
> test to see if it's good enough to rivet. You may find down the road some
> instances where you can't get anything in there to deburr except maybe for
a
> file or scotchbrite pad. You just knock 'em off as best you can and move
> on. The scuffing you see along rivet lines may be prepatory to primer
> application, as I do. I scuff with scotchbrite pad, clean with acetone or
> lacquer thinner, then prime.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD four years of RV grins
> RV10 40051
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always
playing
> on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
> http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:07 am PST Link
Unless you want to invite corrosion and/or a poor finish to dinner, yes.
8^) No space between mating surfaces.
Something I did early on (don't remember who I stole it from) was to make
several "dimple test strips." Take some scrap of various
thicknesses...predominantly you'll just be using .025 and .032 to simulate
skin, maybe occasionally .040 for some stuff. Make about 4 or 5 strips of
each thickness, and in each strip, drill a #40, #30, #27, and #19 hole
respectively. Dimple 'em. Label 'em (with an engraver or punch marks...the
marker will fade after a jillion uses, and then you gotta figure out what's
what). If you've already got fuel tank dimple dies (#40, just a little
deeper; Cleaveland sells 'em), make another .040 strip with that dimple
size.
Now you've got a permutation of "skin simulators" to test your countersink
depth. If you're 'sinking #40 holes in the spar and the skin is .025, get
out that particular test strip and there you go.
If you find that dimples don't fit together (dimples, not
dimple-in-machine-countersink), then you may not have gotten good enough
compression on it. You can always "machine countersink the receiving
dimple" a bit to give it a little extra crispness in the fit. In fact,
that's kinda what I ended up doing on all of my later riveting...after
dimpling, I would run the deburring tool a turn or two lightly in each hole
to really "square" the dimple out. Rivets seem to sit nice and flush that
way, no question.
Anyway, just my 2 cents on all this...best of luck.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <toaster73@e...>
To: <RV10@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [RV10] DeBurrrrrr Question
> Thanks Brian.
> One other question- how well should the dimpling in the skin nest in the
> countersink holes in the spar for example? Should it be so flush a fit
that
> you can't see light between the parts when clecoed?
> Thanks
> Chris L.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@h...>
> To: <RV10@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [RV10] DeBurrrrrr Question
> > >Hello
> > >I am looking at the deburring situation as I progress on my VS. Using
the
> > >speed handle can create a small countersink situation if over done. I
> > >understand this is not ideal. But it seems that the speed deburring
> doesn't
> > >always catch the edge which you can feel with a finger nail. I have
seen
> > >pictures of a wing in progress on Van's site and the rivet lines appear
> to
> > >be all scuffed up. Are they running back over the holes with a scotch
> > >bright pad? Do we need to worry about the finger nail test or just use
> the
> > >feeling of sharpness as you pass your finger tip across the hole as a
> > >guide? Its as though I my holes aren't sharp after the speed deburring
> but
> > >I can catch my finger nail on some of them.
> > >thanks
> > >Chris L
> > >#72
> > You're not trying to achieve a polished edge here, just knock off the
> burrs
> > so the resulting riveted assembly doesn't have metal chips in between
the
> > parts. All it takes is one rotation of the countersink cutter (or
> whatever
> > implement you use) to take off the burr and it's good to go.
> >
> > Obsession over the tiny details is very common with first time builders.
> > You'll get over it soon enough! I use the "drag the finger over the
hole"
> > test to see if it's good enough to rivet. You may find down the road
some
> > instances where you can't get anything in there to deburr except maybe
for
> a
> > file or scotchbrite pad. You just knock 'em off as best you can and
move
> > on. The scuffing you see along rivet lines may be prepatory to primer
> > application, as I do. I scuff with scotchbrite pad, clean with acetone
or
> > lacquer thinner, then prime.
> >
> > Have fun!
> >
> > Brian Denk
> > RV8 N94BD four years of RV grins
> > RV10 40051
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always
> playing
> > on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:11 am PST Link
> what). If you've already got fuel tank dimple dies (#40, just a little
> deeper; Cleaveland sells 'em), make another .040 strip with that dimple
> size.
I meant: make another .032 test strip drilled #40...sorry... 8^)
)_( Dan
Author: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@...> Time: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:16 pm PST Link
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:07:59 -0500
>
>Thanks Brian.
>One other question- how well should the dimpling in the skin nest in the
>countersink holes in the spar for example? Should it be so flush a fit that
>you can't see light between the parts when clecoed?
>Thanks
>Chris L.
The dimples should nest into the countersunk holes so that you can't slip a
piece of paper between the spar and skin. The dimple should nest completely
into the hole without standing up out of it. Slip your test dimple into the
hole....it should pop down and nest snugly without wallowing around in it,
which would indicate going too deep with the cutter. You'll get a feel for
it in time. A few thousandths here or there won't add up to anything
meaningful, so if it looks and feels OK, it probably is.
Enjoy!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 40051
EAA Tech Counselor
_________________________________________________________________
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Author: "Chris" <toaster73@...> Time: Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:23 pm PST Link
I knew what the answer was I just wanted to hear others say it. I did tests
again tonight and decided I am being too shy with the squeezer and dimple
dies. Also I should go a few more clicks on the countersink so a test rivet
sits down in the counter sink a little deeper - that seems to give the best
fit. I measured with a depth gauge and found that with a rivet set into the
countersunk spar, the rivet was about .010-.015 inch below the surface of
the spar - "over countersink" so to speak. With the skin good and dimpled
and riveted on the spar everything was flush - rivet head to skin and skin
to spar. No paper good get through. My dimple to dimple test pieces were ok
too as long as I squeezed the dies firmly.
Now I am ready to finish counter sinking and dimpling so I can wrap up the
VS.
Thanks for the replies.
-Chris L
#72
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@h...>
To: <RV10@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [RV10] DeBurrrrrr Question
> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:07:59 -0500
> >
> >Thanks Brian.
> >One other question- how well should the dimpling in the skin nest in the
> >countersink holes in the spar for example? Should it be so flush a fit
that
> >you can't see light between the parts when clecoed?
> >Thanks
> >Chris L.
> The dimples should nest into the countersunk holes so that you can't slip
a
> piece of paper between the spar and skin. The dimple should nest
completely
> into the hole without standing up out of it. Slip your test dimple into
the
> hole....it should pop down and nest snugly without wallowing around in it,
> which would indicate going too deep with the cutter. You'll get a feel
for
> it in time. A few thousandths here or there won't add up to anything
> meaningful, so if it looks and feels OK, it probably is.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> RV10 40051
> EAA Tech Counselor
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer
virus
> scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/