Author: "rv7pete" <RV10Pete@...> Time: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:49 pm PST Link
Hello fellow 10ers. (...and you sopranos as well)
I sent an e-mail off to Garmin fishing a bit to see what the p[rice
may be on the new G1000 glass panel avionics. The answer back is
basically that they are focused only on production airplanes.....and
that the new units are very complicated to install......So guys like
us will have to buy something else.
They don't expect the G1000 to be avialable for general
aviation/aftermarket use for another 3 to 4 YEARS!
(I did point out to them that there were over 135 potential RV-10
builders -- rivaling some of their production aircraft model markets)
So much for my pipe dreams!
Cheers!
Pete
Author: Larry R <_lr_@...> Time: Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:26 am PST Link
--- RV10Pete@m... wrote:
> They don't expect the G1000 [MFD] to be avialable for general
> aviation/aftermarket use for another 3 to 4 YEARS!
Sadly, that's probably not too far off from when I'll be ready for
avionics :(
> (I did point out to them that there were over 135 potential RV-10
> builders -- rivaling some of their production aircraft model markets)
I wonder how many of us there *really* are, by which I mean ready to
put down a 10% deposit *right now*?
As for me, I've got a fully inventoried empecone in my garage and
haven't driven a single rivet yet. But if I had an oppportunity to lock
in something like a G1000 in the $30k range for 10% down right now, I
might actually consider it. How about *you*?
I'm sure what it will *really* cost. At $30k I'd probably gag, and then
write the check. $50k no. If you asked me to justify this, I wouldn't
be able to. What's *your* choke point?
What really appeals to me about these panels is the level of
integration. No need to get half a dozen boxes to play well together.
Just add a few steam gauges, and a hand-held GPS in your flight bag and
you're done.
-lr
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Author: "eric_panning" <eric_panning@...> Time: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:28 am PST Link
I think the G1000 will be way, way over 30k.
Consider the following:
G330 S-mode transponder is ~ 5k
430 GPS/Comm is ~ 10k
530 GPS/Comm is ~ 15k
340 Audio panel is ~ 1.7k
UPS GPS/Comm is ~ 11k
UPS MFD (mapping) is ~ 8k
Blue Mountain MFD is ~ 17k (once you add in harness, etc)
I think the G1000 will be 60K+. Too rich for me....
I am going to hold costs for plane, avionics, and engine to no more
than 1/3 each.
With the plane at 35 - to 40k, that's about 35 k max for for
avionics. I'm thinking of the BMA panel, a 430, maybe s-mode (for
traffic), a 106A for GS/LOC, 340 and perhaps an icom nav/com. Even
this is 36k and only partial list.
Backup plan is an all electric panel, with a Dynon or BMA EFIS/lite
in the center and the UPS GPS/Comm with GPS approach. That is still ~
16 to 20 k.
One of the UK flying mags just did a long article on the RV-10 -
including flight tests. They liked it. :) Also in the magazine was a
discussion on Cirrus accident rates. Despite MFD's and advanced
safety features they still are crashing at rates comparable to
Cessnas. The final report as to why is not out yet, but so far it
appears classic pilot errors dominate and the higher speed negates
the advantages of the advanced electronics. They may even be a
deteriment by giving a false sense of security/ability.
Eric
RV-10 order as soon as I am back in the states ~ Dec.
> I wonder how many of us there *really* are, by which I mean ready to
> put down a 10% deposit *right now*?
>
> As for me, I've got a fully inventoried empecone in my garage and
> haven't driven a single rivet yet. But if I had an oppportunity to
lock
> in something like a G1000 in the $30k range for 10% down right now,
I
> might actually consider it. How about *you*?
>
> I'm sure what it will *really* cost. At $30k I'd probably gag, and
then
> write the check. $50k no. If you asked me to justify this, I
wouldn't
> be able to. What's *your* choke point?
>
> What really appeals to me about these panels is the level of
> integration. No need to get half a dozen boxes to play well
together.
> Just add a few steam gauges, and a hand-held GPS in your flight bag
and
> you're done.
>
> -lr
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
Author: Aaron Sims <ams@...> Time: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:29 am PST Link
I'm currently oogling the EFIS/One system from
Blue Mountain Avionics. It lists for $15k plus
a little extra for support and engine probes.
The nice thing is that an extra screen is $1900!
They're targetting the experimental market with this
system.
http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/
Aaron
RV-10 #40036
VS ready to be skinned.
On Nov 14, Larry R <_lr_@y...> wrote:
> --- RV10Pete@m... wrote:
>
> > They don't expect the G1000 [MFD] to be avialable for general
> > aviation/aftermarket use for another 3 to 4 YEARS!
>
> Sadly, that's probably not too far off from when I'll be ready for
> avionics :(
>
> > (I did point out to them that there were over 135 potential RV-10
> > builders -- rivaling some of their production aircraft model markets)
>
> I wonder how many of us there *really* are, by which I mean ready to
> put down a 10% deposit *right now*?
>
> As for me, I've got a fully inventoried empecone in my garage and
> haven't driven a single rivet yet. But if I had an oppportunity to lock
> in something like a G1000 in the $30k range for 10% down right now, I
> might actually consider it. How about *you*?
>
> I'm sure what it will *really* cost. At $30k I'd probably gag, and then
> write the check. $50k no. If you asked me to justify this, I wouldn't
> be able to. What's *your* choke point?
>
> What really appeals to me about these panels is the level of
> integration. No need to get half a dozen boxes to play well together.
> Just add a few steam gauges, and a hand-held GPS in your flight bag and
> you're done.
>
> -lr
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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--
Aaron M. Sims | The early bird may get the worm, but
ams@g... | it's the second mouse that gets the
asims.cs98@g... | cheese.
Author: "Mike Lauritsen" <mike@...> Time: Fri Nov 14, 2003 8:08 am PST Link
Has anyone explained to Garmin that Van's is the largest Lycoming
dealer?
It is about time they woke up and smelled their marketing textbooks.
Perhaps they know that they can't charge twice as much as it is worth
when it is not bundled with an airplane that costs three times more than
it is worth.
Mike
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St. Boone, IA 50036
800-368-1822
Mike@C...
www.cleavelandtool.com <http://www.cleavelandtool.com/
On Nov 14, Larry R <_lr_@y...> wrote:
> --- RV10Pete@m... wrote:
>
> > They don't expect the G1000 [MFD] to be avialable for general
> > aviation/aftermarket use for another 3 to 4 YEARS!
>
> Sadly, that's probably not too far off from when I'll be ready for
> avionics :(
>
> > (I did point out to them that there were over 135 potential RV-10
> > builders -- rivaling some of their production aircraft model
markets)
>
> I wonder how many of us there *really* are, by which I mean ready to
> put down a 10% deposit *right now*?
>
> As for me, I've got a fully inventoried empecone in my garage and
> haven't driven a single rivet yet. But if I had an oppportunity to
lock
> in something like a G1000 in the $30k range for 10% down right now, I
> might actually consider it. How about *you*?
>
> I'm sure what it will *really* cost. At $30k I'd probably gag, and
then
> write the check. $50k no. If you asked me to justify this, I wouldn't
> be able to. What's *your* choke point?
>
> What really appeals to me about these panels is the level of
> integration. No need to get half a dozen boxes to play well together.
> Just add a few steam gauges, and a hand-held GPS in your flight bag
and
> you're done.
>
> -lr
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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--
Aaron M. Sims | The early bird may get the worm, but
ams@g... | it's the second mouse that gets the
asims.cs98@g... | cheese.
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Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Fri Nov 14, 2003 8:55 am PST Link
> Consider the following:
>
> G330 S-mode transponder is ~ 5k
> 430 GPS/Comm is ~ 10k
> 530 GPS/Comm is ~ 15k
> 340 Audio panel is ~ 1.7k
>
> UPS GPS/Comm is ~ 11k
> UPS MFD (mapping) is ~ 8k
Whoa...somebody's paying full price!!! 8^) You should be able to get all
that junk for half those prices.
http://www.starkavionics.com
For what it's worth, here's what I paid for toys from John Stark:
GMA-340 - $1078
GX60 - $3640
SL30 - $2914
Apollo ACU - $310
MD200-306 (CDI) - $1375
GTX-320A - $1152
Sandia SAE5-35 - $340
I'm pretty sure he sells the GNS-430 & -530 for about *half* what you
estimated! Oh...and he'll pre-wire the harness for a few hundred bucks
(your mileage may vary...I paid $595 to have my radios + encoder pre-wired).
Don't treat this like an "ad" for his prices, this is just a data point of
what I paid back in April or May.
Shop around,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Author: "eric_panning" <eric_panning@...> Time: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:51 am PST Link
Dan,
Thanks for the website. Stark had 430 for ~ 8k installed and ~12k
for 530. 330 transponder is s-mode and is expensive - it does offer
traffic to the 430/530 though. 320 is the basic one.
I agree that you can find lower and I quoted mostly list price.
There will be a bigger used market as well in the coming years too.
Perhaps someone can comment, but how much discount is there on bought
outright vs. installed? I was thinking that it might not be as great
as it might seem because:
1. Installed prices are often a starting point.
2. Still need antennas, wire harnesses, etc
3. ????
Eric
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
> > Consider the following:
> >
> > G330 S-mode transponder is ~ 5k
> > 430 GPS/Comm is ~ 10k
> > 530 GPS/Comm is ~ 15k
> > 340 Audio panel is ~ 1.7k
> >
> > UPS GPS/Comm is ~ 11k
> > UPS MFD (mapping) is ~ 8k
>
> Whoa...somebody's paying full price!!! 8^) You should be able to
get all
> that junk for half those prices.
>
> http://www.starkavionics.com
>
> For what it's worth, here's what I paid for toys from John Stark:
>
> GMA-340 - $1078
> GX60 - $3640
> SL30 - $2914
> Apollo ACU - $310
> MD200-306 (CDI) - $1375
> GTX-320A - $1152
> Sandia SAE5-35 - $340
>
> I'm pretty sure he sells the GNS-430 & -530 for about *half* what
you
> estimated! Oh...and he'll pre-wire the harness for a few hundred
bucks
> (your mileage may vary...I paid $595 to have my radios + encoder
pre-wired).
> Don't treat this like an "ad" for his prices, this is just a data
point of
> what I paid back in April or May.
>
> Shop around,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:00 am PST Link
> Perhaps someone can comment, but how much discount is there on bought
> outright vs. installed? I was thinking that it might not be as great
> as it might seem because:
>
> 1. Installed prices are often a starting point.
Installed prices are generally irrelevant to us homebuilders...just make
sure you let the vendor know that it's a homebuilt, not a spam can.
Thousands of dollars difference when you're talkin' about an IFR GPS.
> 2. Still need antennas, wire harnesses, etc
Com/nav/gs/marker antennas are relatively cheap (Chief sells Comant, for
example, if you want a belly whip or whatever). Bob Archer sells his
"concealed" SportCraft antennas for about $60 a pop, or you can just make
your own following the plans Bob Nuckolls outlines in the AeroElectric
Connection book. Does anybody actually buy marker beacon antennas anymore,
as opposed to just using a long strip of coax/conductor?
Most (if not all?) panel-mounted GPSs will come with a GPS antenna. The
UPSAT radios came with all required installation hardware (connectors, pins,
tools) MINUS WIRE. Wire is cheap. http://www.wiremasters.net (ask for Deb
Sullivan) or http://www.steinair.com or http://www.bandc.biz -- lots of
other cheap choices for wire as well (including other builders with
surplus), but those are just a few decent starting points.
Best of luck,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com