Author: "Mike Lauritsen" <mike@...> Time: Tue Jan 6, 2004 9:41 am PST Link
I think that Van is just conservative and he knows that Lycoming is a
tried and true solution. He offers the engines for far below the
"retail" that you have to pay from anywhere but Van's.
For Van's to officially support an "alternative" engine, the engine
would have to be proven to be reliable and have to be a significant
savings over the Lycoming. For instance, I am going to have a zero time
rebuilt IO-540, complete with fuel injection, ignition... for under
$15K. What would it take to get me to bite on something else??? I
don't know that I would stick my neck out on an engine that didn't have
thousands of hours of track record for anything over $10K. When I look
at my pile of Lycoming parts I marvel at it's simplicity, low parts
count means less chance of failure.
I would guess that for Van to invest in the R&D required just to answer
questions about another engine it would have to be very reliable, and a
huge percentage savings over lycoming. If it means that they will sell
more kits, they will do it. Many years ago they built an airplane to
try the Franklin engine. It ended up mothballed. Can you imagine
paying somone to build an airplane, bolt on an unknown engine, then
strap it to the ceiling in the hangar with no profit potential ever?
Not a good buisness venture. However when the right one comes along,
AND I AM CONVINCED IT WILL, I am sure that Van's will support it. It
means selling more kits, by opening up a larger market due to decreased
build cost.
My advise is unless you have an abundance of time, don't even waste it
looking at the "alternatives" until they are available for purchase, and
from what I have seen that won't be by the time that any of us need and
engine. Instead spend your time finding a good lycoming that needs
rebuilt, learn how to rebuild it, and rebuild it having an A&P checking
you as you go. It is really very easy to do.
An afterthought:
I hear "1950's technology", but think about the good old quite 1920's
air compressors that turn 500rpm and will make a lump, lump, lump sound
that you can listen to all day long. Those old compressors didn't make
much heat, and never wore out. Today I would pay double the price of a
new compressor to get an old one. The new ones scream at 2500rpm and
make more heat that the average cooktop, in an industrial environment
they would not last 6 months. In fact we bought one from a guy that was
"upgrading" and ever since he got the new one he has been begging us to
sell the old one back to him.
Happy Building!
Mike
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St. Boone, IA 50036
800-368-1822
Mike@C...
www.cleavelandtool.com <http://www.cleavelandtool.com/
--------------------------------------------------
Knowing how "pro Lycoming" and anti-alternative Van's
is, I wouldn't hold your breath. Van's and Lycoming
have been in business together for quite some time,
and they are usually not very receptive to the subject
of alternative power plants. Not to mention, the R&D
required to engineer a FWF package, probably wouldn't
be too high on their list of priorities. It would
have to be REALLY impressive to get the old man to
change his ways, I would bet. (Heck, I sound like I
know the guy or something. Not really, just a gut
instinct of how he (they) do business).
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Author: "Mike Lauritsen" <mike@...> Time: Tue Jan 6, 2004 6:06 pm PST Link
I have had several inquiries already so I will contribute more about
the $15,000 lO-540.
I didn't know the differences between the models of the 540's so I did
some research. I found the following document that will give you all
the specs you need to know about all the Lycoming codes. This also has
a list of what you will commonly find this type of engine hanging on.
<http://www.lycoming.textron.com/productSales/engineSpecifications/SSP40
1.pdf>
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/productSales/engineSpecifications/SSP401
.pdf
I printed this massive thing off and started studying it. We know that
Van's says 200-260hp so I went through and highlighted everything that
qualified. Then I used a different color to highlight everything that I
didn't want (no c.s. prop provision, counterweights for 3-blade prop...)
With this I started looking:
I found that for $25-$30K you can get a pro-rebuild with many new parts
and a guarantee. For $15K you could get an engine with some time left
on it. For $5K-$6K you could get a run out.
I decided that finding a good run out was the way I should go... I have
plenty of time to wait, not too much money, and skilled local help. I
could buy the run out, save up money, do some machine work, save some
money, buy some parts, ss$, pay for help... it will be like buying it in
installments much like the kit itself.
I was told to look for the following: Total Hours, ADs kept up, Total
number of overhauls (3 or more adds significantly to overhaul cost),
$10K avg. cost in parts to overhaul, if it has 1500-1800 hours it is
best to start looking hard if not just tearing it down. Difference
between carb overhaul and FI overhaul is $900
I nosed around for months looking for "the right buy" and finally ended
up with one from Air Salvage in Florida. Dick down there was good to
work with as far as trust and knowledge goes, but I felt he didn't have
much patience for someone like me that was looking at a tough learning
curve. So I ended up having my mechanic friend negotiate and
interrogate until we had a deal worked out. The engine came and it all
looks great so far. One of the cylinders was no good, but that was
expected from the phone conversations. All accessories were there and
looked in good order.
Many hours spending quality time with a solvent brush and it is cleaned
up and ready to send off to the machine shop.
Here are some resources I talked to:
Signature Engines OH 513-871-9966
Wentworth MN 612-722-0065
Air Salvage TX 800-336-6399
Air Tech FL 800-366-4746
Here are some prices I have found: (off of chicken scratches so bear
with me)
Cylinders $250-$375 ($842 complete assembled and ready to bolt on)
Ring set $99.72
Piston $75.68
Valves $55.27 $152.73
Rod Bolts $35
Bearing $7.65 x 12
Main $21.35 & $95
Harness $300
My total parts needed cost $5560
My total machining estimate including mags $1600
My spec. list I sent with the check for $7000 to Air Tech was:
Complete IO540-C4B5 as follows
New Flywheel and ring gear
New 50 amp alternator
New high torque starter
Complete ignition system
yellow tagged crank
Cylinders: 5 within new limits and free of cracks, 1 out of limits
Case guaranteed to be free of cracks
Mags
Oil filter mount
Nuts bolts and all components necessary for running engine
I hope that this helps everyone. Put out feelers with everyone that is
involved in airplanes, with all the A&Ps, at all the repair shops. Air
boat guys use these too so look in those circles.
Good luck,
Mike
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St. Boone, IA 50036
800-368-1822
Mike@C...
www.cleavelandtool.com <http://www.cleavelandtool.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]