Author: "mojo_ceo" <bhughes@...> Time: Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:43 pm PST Link
I wanted to give some feedback to the group regarding the DTRT-1
dimple tool. Here is the good and bad as I see it.
First the good.
The tools is as advertised. It produces a consistent dimple every
time. With a little assistance with holding the sinks my seven-year-
old daughter was able to apply enough pressure to the arm to get
really good dimples. Then she got bored….. Go figure.
I have been able to use it on all of the skins including the leading
edge skins of the HS / VS with good result. The exception is the two
most forward holes of the pre-bent skins that required me to use the
pop dimple tool. This tool did not produce a consistent dimple. Need
to get a rivet shaver for a couple of those rivets. My EAA Tech
Advisor made a suggestion on how to get a better dimple with the pop
style tool.
The tools also works well on all the stiffeners and most of the ribs.
I have only used the traditional C-Frame a few times in the GBI
Workshop (great class) but I do find the DTRT faster and I am not
guessing how hard to hit the pin. I am sure that I would develop a
feel for the hammer very quickly but I also believe that pulling the
handle of the DTRT creates a very consistent force applied to the
material. Moving the skins to the next hole is easy and quick and my
other hand never leaves the handle.
Not much bad to report.
If I had it do to over again I would have insisted that the tool be
shipped complete. I live in Austin Tx and finding a machine shop to
do the welding was both difficult and expensive. The shop I used is
well established and had to build the frame twice because of a slight
twist in the I-Beam. The final produce ended up 3/16" short so I
shimmed with finder washers. Experimental Aero offered and did send
me a shim plate to replace the washers but the tool is working fine.
Having the frame built locally was almost the exact cost of having
Experimental Aero provide it and ship it to Austin.
Other suggestions.
I have found that when dimpling skins I prefer a little more support
than just the table top that Experimental Aero suggests building.
(plans are included and it is easy to make). I place the tool, which
is mounted, on a small workbench between my two 5' benches with the
work surfaces level and go at it.
After studying the problem of pre-bent skin access I believe that
mounting the DTRT where it protrudes about five inches off the front
of the workbench may solve the access problem and eliminate the pop
tool. I am going to move it before the wings arrive.
Please feel free to contact me with any other questions. I really
like this tool.
Bobby Hughes
40116
Tail Cone ready to be disassembled and deburred.
Author: "Merems" <merems@...> Time: Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:01 am PST Link
Thank you for the review.
For those interested in the DRDT-1 I have some good news. I have been redesigning the dimpler and I am in production with a new model the DRDT-2. The DRDT-2 is a complete dimpling tool, powder coated and ready to dimple (minor assembly required). The DRDT-2 has a 22" throat depth. According to Van's Engineering only the RV-10 belly skins are 48" deep so there maybe only a few dimples that you will need the "pop" rivet dimple dies for. Reducing the throat depth from 24" is a minor compromise because I was able to reduce the weight, height, and cost of the DRDT-2 and make it more affordable to builders. Estimated price $250 w/o shipping. Estimated initial shipping the beginning of February.
For those interested in the DRDT-2, please visit www.experimentalaero.com for latest pricing and availability information.
Sincerely,
Paul Merems
ExperimentalAero
----- Original Message -----
From: mojo_ceo
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 3:35 PM
Subject: [RV10] ExperimentalAero DRDT-1 Feedback
I wanted to give some feedback to the group regarding the DTRT-1
dimple tool. Here is the good and bad as I see it.
First the good.
The tools is as advertised. It produces a consistent dimple every
time. With a little assistance with holding the sinks my seven-year-
old daughter was able to apply enough pressure to the arm to get
really good dimples. Then she got bored... Go figure.
I have been able to use it on all of the skins including the leading
edge skins of the HS / VS with good result. The exception is the two
most forward holes of the pre-bent skins that required me to use the
pop dimple tool. This tool did not produce a consistent dimple. Need
to get a rivet shaver for a couple of those rivets. My EAA Tech
Advisor made a suggestion on how to get a better dimple with the pop
style tool.
The tools also works well on all the stiffeners and most of the ribs.
I have only used the traditional C-Frame a few times in the GBI
Workshop (great class) but I do find the DTRT faster and I am not
guessing how hard to hit the pin. I am sure that I would develop a
feel for the hammer very quickly but I also believe that pulling the
handle of the DTRT creates a very consistent force applied to the
material. Moving the skins to the next hole is easy and quick and my
other hand never leaves the handle.
Not much bad to report.
If I had it do to over again I would have insisted that the tool be
shipped complete. I live in Austin Tx and finding a machine shop to
do the welding was both difficult and expensive. The shop I used is
well established and had to build the frame twice because of a slight
twist in the I-Beam. The final produce ended up 3/16" short so I
shimmed with finder washers. Experimental Aero offered and did send
me a shim plate to replace the washers but the tool is working fine.
Having the frame built locally was almost the exact cost of having
Experimental Aero provide it and ship it to Austin.
Other suggestions.
I have found that when dimpling skins I prefer a little more support
than just the table top that Experimental Aero suggests building.
(plans are included and it is easy to make). I place the tool, which
is mounted, on a small workbench between my two 5' benches with the
work surfaces level and go at it.
After studying the problem of pre-bent skin access I believe that
mounting the DTRT where it protrudes about five inches off the front
of the workbench may solve the access problem and eliminate the pop
tool. I am going to move it before the wings arrive.
Please feel free to contact me with any other questions. I really
like this tool.
Bobby Hughes
40116
Tail Cone ready to be disassembled and deburred.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Bob Hassel" <bob@...> Time: Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:18 am PST Link
Is the only thing that changed a reduced throat depth?
BTW - getting ready to move to Santa Fe, so it'll be a little while longer
before I can actually play with my DRDT-1.
Bob Hassel
-----Original Message-----
From: Merems [mailto:merems@c...]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:14 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RV10] ExperimentalAero DRDT-1 Feedback
Thank you for the review.
For those interested in the DRDT-1 I have some good news. I have been
redesigning the dimpler and I am in production with a new model the DRDT-2.
The DRDT-2 is a complete dimpling tool, powder coated and ready to dimple
(minor assembly required). The DRDT-2 has a 22" throat depth. According to
Van's Engineering only the RV-10 belly skins are 48" deep so there maybe
only a few dimples that you will need the "pop" rivet dimple dies for.
Reducing the throat depth from 24" is a minor compromise because I was able
to reduce the weight, height, and cost of the DRDT-2 and make it more
affordable to builders. Estimated price $250 w/o shipping. Estimated
initial shipping the beginning of February.
For those interested in the DRDT-2, please visit www.experimentalaero.com
for latest pricing and availability information.
Sincerely,
Paul Merems
ExperimentalAero
----- Original Message -----
From: mojo_ceo
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 3:35 PM
Subject: [RV10] ExperimentalAero DRDT-1 Feedback
I wanted to give some feedback to the group regarding the DTRT-1
dimple tool. Here is the good and bad as I see it.
First the good.
The tools is as advertised. It produces a consistent dimple every
time. With a little assistance with holding the sinks my seven-year-
old daughter was able to apply enough pressure to the arm to get
really good dimples. Then she got bored... Go figure.
I have been able to use it on all of the skins including the leading
edge skins of the HS / VS with good result. The exception is the two
most forward holes of the pre-bent skins that required me to use the
pop dimple tool. This tool did not produce a consistent dimple. Need
to get a rivet shaver for a couple of those rivets. My EAA Tech
Advisor made a suggestion on how to get a better dimple with the pop
style tool.
The tools also works well on all the stiffeners and most of the ribs.
I have only used the traditional C-Frame a few times in the GBI
Workshop (great class) but I do find the DTRT faster and I am not
guessing how hard to hit the pin. I am sure that I would develop a
feel for the hammer very quickly but I also believe that pulling the
handle of the DTRT creates a very consistent force applied to the
material. Moving the skins to the next hole is easy and quick and my
other hand never leaves the handle.
Not much bad to report.
If I had it do to over again I would have insisted that the tool be
shipped complete. I live in Austin Tx and finding a machine shop to
do the welding was both difficult and expensive. The shop I used is
well established and had to build the frame twice because of a slight
twist in the I-Beam. The final produce ended up 3/16" short so I
shimmed with finder washers. Experimental Aero offered and did send
me a shim plate to replace the washers but the tool is working fine.
Having the frame built locally was almost the exact cost of having
Experimental Aero provide it and ship it to Austin.
Other suggestions.
I have found that when dimpling skins I prefer a little more support
than just the table top that Experimental Aero suggests building.
(plans are included and it is easy to make). I place the tool, which
is mounted, on a small workbench between my two 5' benches with the
work surfaces level and go at it.
After studying the problem of pre-bent skin access I believe that
mounting the DTRT where it protrudes about five inches off the front
of the workbench may solve the access problem and eliminate the pop
tool. I am going to move it before the wings arrive.
Please feel free to contact me with any other questions. I really
like this tool.
Bobby Hughes
40116
Tail Cone ready to be disassembled and deburred.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Merems" <merems@...> Time: Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:07 pm PST Link
The DRDT-2 is constructed out of rectangular structural steel tubing (DRDT-1 is made from I-beam). It is 4" shorter in height then the DRDT-1. This reduction makes the DRDT-2 working height lower on a standard work bench making it easier to get more leverage. The DRDT-2 is 6 lbs lighter which makes it easier to move on and off the workbench.
For those who have the DRDT-1 it is a great tool. The goal of the DRDT-2 design was to reduce the cost, size, and weight without giving up the functionally of the DRDT-1. By meeting these goals I may be able to get more of DRDT's in builders hands.
Sincerely,
Paul Merems (RV-4/RV-7A)
www.experimentalaero.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Hassel
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 6:18 AM
Subject: RE: [RV10] ExperimentalAero DRDT-1 Feedback
Is the only thing that changed a reduced throat depth?
BTW - getting ready to move to Santa Fe, so it'll be a little while longer
before I can actually play with my DRDT-1.
Bob Hassel
-----Original Message-----
From: Merems [mailto:merems@c...]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:14 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RV10] ExperimentalAero DRDT-1 Feedback
Thank you for the review.
For those interested in the DRDT-1 I have some good news. I have been
redesigning the dimpler and I am in production with a new model the DRDT-2.
The DRDT-2 is a complete dimpling tool, powder coated and ready to dimple
(minor assembly required). The DRDT-2 has a 22" throat depth. According to
Van's Engineering only the RV-10 belly skins are 48" deep so there maybe
only a few dimples that you will need the "pop" rivet dimple dies for.
Reducing the throat depth from 24" is a minor compromise because I was able
to reduce the weight, height, and cost of the DRDT-2 and make it more
affordable to builders. Estimated price $250 w/o shipping. Estimated
initial shipping the beginning of February.
For those interested in the DRDT-2, please visit www.experimentalaero.com
for latest pricing and availability information.
Sincerely,
Paul Merems
ExperimentalAero
----- Original Message -----
From: mojo_ceo
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 3:35 PM
Subject: [RV10] ExperimentalAero DRDT-1 Feedback
I wanted to give some feedback to the group regarding the DTRT-1
dimple tool. Here is the good and bad as I see it.
First the good.
The tools is as advertised. It produces a consistent dimple every
time. With a little assistance with holding the sinks my seven-year-
old daughter was able to apply enough pressure to the arm to get
really good dimples. Then she got bored... Go figure.
I have been able to use it on all of the skins including the leading
edge skins of the HS / VS with good result. The exception is the two
most forward holes of the pre-bent skins that required me to use the
pop dimple tool. This tool did not produce a consistent dimple. Need
to get a rivet shaver for a couple of those rivets. My EAA Tech
Advisor made a suggestion on how to get a better dimple with the pop
style tool.
The tools also works well on all the stiffeners and most of the ribs.
I have only used the traditional C-Frame a few times in the GBI
Workshop (great class) but I do find the DTRT faster and I am not
guessing how hard to hit the pin. I am sure that I would develop a
feel for the hammer very quickly but I also believe that pulling the
handle of the DTRT creates a very consistent force applied to the
material. Moving the skins to the next hole is easy and quick and my
other hand never leaves the handle.
Not much bad to report.
If I had it do to over again I would have insisted that the tool be
shipped complete. I live in Austin Tx and finding a machine shop to
do the welding was both difficult and expensive. The shop I used is
well established and had to build the frame twice because of a slight
twist in the I-Beam. The final produce ended up 3/16" short so I
shimmed with finder washers. Experimental Aero offered and did send
me a shim plate to replace the washers but the tool is working fine.
Having the frame built locally was almost the exact cost of having
Experimental Aero provide it and ship it to Austin.
Other suggestions.
I have found that when dimpling skins I prefer a little more support
than just the table top that Experimental Aero suggests building.
(plans are included and it is easy to make). I place the tool, which
is mounted, on a small workbench between my two 5' benches with the
work surfaces level and go at it.
After studying the problem of pre-bent skin access I believe that
mounting the DTRT where it protrudes about five inches off the front
of the workbench may solve the access problem and eliminate the pop
tool. I am going to move it before the wings arrive.
Please feel free to contact me with any other questions. I really
like this tool.
Bobby Hughes
40116
Tail Cone ready to be disassembled and deburred.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "andrewtr30" <andrewtr30@...> Time: Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:31 pm PST Link
My EAA Tech
> Advisor made a suggestion on how to get a better dimple with the
pop
> style tool.
Just curious, what was the suggestion?
Andrew
RV-10
Rudder
Author: "mojo_ceo" <bhughes@...> Time: Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:19 pm PST Link
Andrew
He suggested applying the die two or three times to the same hole and
making sure that the die is rotated to a different position each time
would produce a good dimple. I tested it on a piece of scrap and it
seems to work. I do not think I will need it again until the wings.
Bobby Hughes
40116
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "andrewtr30" <andrewtr30@y...> wrote:
> My EAA Tech
> > Advisor made a suggestion on how to get a better dimple with the
> pop
> > style tool.
>
> Just curious, what was the suggestion?
>
> Andrew
> RV-10
> Rudder
Author: "heeder777" <heeder777@...> Time: Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:45 pm PST Link
I don't recommend that...those dies are turned out on a lathe, by
turning them and reapplying pressure will not result in a "better"
or "deeper" dimple...just give them a good squeeze initially, I've
even had the nail break...to redo it just increases your chances of
miss alignment and a double dimple impression. The hole will expand
after the first dimple....the nail could mis align on the second try.
There are very few rivets that need this, using the Avery pop dimpler
has wored out great on the last few holes on the center row near the
leading edge of the H.S.
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "andrewtr30" <andrewtr30@y...> wrote:
> My EAA Tech
> > Advisor made a suggestion on how to get a better dimple with the
> pop
> > style tool.
>
> Just curious, what was the suggestion?
>
> Andrew
> RV-10
> Rudder