Author: "Mark Lamon" <mlamon@...> Time: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:43 pm PST Link
Brian Wow! You sound like Jack Nicholson in the movie "A Few Good Men" when
he gets all fired up on the stand.
I'm not trying to get you fired up. I fully agree. I told my best buddy to
slap me in the face if I start getting side-tracked on non practical issues
during my build.
You still sound like Jack Nicholson! <Go build an RV> That should stick
around for a while. Like this one "Badges......We need no stinkin badges"
Mark #167 :)
Brian posted:
Then evidently HUNDREDS (thousands?) of RV's flying worldwide are unsafe
and
subject to instant vaporization if a thunderstorm should roll overhead or
anywhere near the flight path of the aircraft?
We're building simple, affordable aircraft and not spacecraft or passenger
airliners with bazillions of sensitive components and safety systems. Then
I also surmise that standard airframe maintenance practices of sheet metal
repairs and structural repairs are unairworthy if any form of primer is
used
on any mating surface? Time to ground the entire GA fleet and issue a few
thousand AD's I suppose, eh? Every quickbuild airframe kit from Van's is
completely wash primered inside. Time to call Van and tell him he's doing
it all wrong?
Go build an RV. Commit years of your life to it like I did then tell me
how
to build an airplane. Your technical dissertation is sound, but not
practical for this application.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
356 hrs, not a single electrical issue whatsoever.
Instrumentation and Controls technician w/ pulse power and laser optics
experience.
Author: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@...> Time: Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:48 am PST Link
>Brian Wow! You sound like Jack Nicholson in the movie "A Few Good Men" when
>he gets all fired up on the stand.
>
>I'm not trying to get you fired up. I fully agree. I told my best buddy to
>slap me in the face if I start getting side-tracked on non practical issues
>during my build.
>
>You still sound like Jack Nicholson! <Go build an RV> That should stick
>around for a while. Like this one "Badges......We need no stinkin badges"
>
>Mark #167 :)
>
HAH! Yeah, I suppose so. I just have no tolerance for overly anal retentive
comments from "professionals" who have never set a single rivet in their
life, never missed out on lots of life's little wonders while dimpling
thousands of holes alone in the shop day after day, all done to achieve a
true milestone of accomplishment that is airplane building. It's a
magnificent and serious undertaking, but can't be scrutinized to the nth
detail in every regard or it will never fly in one man's lifetime.
"no stinking badges...", Blazing Saddles!! "Aw heck, now somebody's gotta
go back and get a sh*tload of dimes...."
Brian "don't need no stinking alodyne" (until it's time for finish paint
then applied per paint manufacturer's specs) Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
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Author: linn walters <lwalters2@...> Time: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:53 am PST Link
Brian Denk wrote:
>HAH! Yeah, I suppose so. I just have no tolerance for overly anal retentive
>comments from "professionals" who have never set a single rivet in their
>life, never missed out on lots of life's little wonders while dimpling
>thousands of holes alone in the shop day after day, all done to achieve a
>true milestone of accomplishment that is airplane building.
>
That's too bad Brian. You were offered some good advice (electrical
conductivity) and just blew it off because the guy had never smashed a
rivet. Your loss. I have seen what a lightning strike will do to an
aluminum, riveted, structure, and you don't want to be in that spot.
You COULD end up with an unairworthy aircraft because a favorite, fun
thing for lightning to do is remove a bunch of rivets cleanly ...... and
probably in the most unaccessable places. Just because you don't care
for someones suggestions is no reason to blast away with both barrels.
Some of us (in this particular case) knew where the guy had been, but
needed a little reminder. The rest got good information. See your
doctor. Ask him about prozak.
> It's a
>magnificent and serious undertaking, but can't be scrutinized to the nth
>detail in every regard or it will never fly in one man's lifetime.
>
Absolutely. And that's the reason why we're here crying for help all
the time. 'Rivet experience' doesn't necessarily qualify someone as an
expert airplane builder ...... or engineer ...... but doesn't dilute the
knowledge either.
Linn ...... haven't smashed a Vans rivet ..... yet.
>"no stinking badges...", Blazing Saddles!! "Aw heck, now somebody's gotta
>go back and get a sh*tload of dimes...."
>
>Brian "don't need no stinking alodyne" (until it's time for finish paint
>then applied per paint manufacturer's specs) Denk
>
>RV8 N94BD
>RV10 '51
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@...> Time: Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:00 pm PST Link
>Brian Denk wrote:
>
> >HAH! Yeah, I suppose so. I just have no tolerance for overly anal
>retentive
> >comments from "professionals" who have never set a single rivet in their
> >life, never missed out on lots of life's little wonders while dimpling
> >thousands of holes alone in the shop day after day, all done to achieve a
> >true milestone of accomplishment that is airplane building.
> >
>That's too bad Brian. You were offered some good advice (electrical
>conductivity) and just blew it off because the guy had never smashed a
>rivet. Your loss. I have seen what a lightning strike will do to an
>aluminum, riveted, structure, and you don't want to be in that spot.
>You COULD end up with an unairworthy aircraft because a favorite, fun
>thing for lightning to do is remove a bunch of rivets cleanly ...... and
>probably in the most unaccessable places. Just because you don't care
>for someones suggestions is no reason to blast away with both barrels.
>Some of us (in this particular case) knew where the guy had been, but
>needed a little reminder. The rest got good information. See your
>doctor. Ask him about prozak.
He says it just interferes with the Viagra. *rimshot* I'm not here to
flagrantly fund the pharmaceutical companies! OK, but seriously folks...
I do appologize for coming across as arrogant or ill-tempered. I'm
not...usually. I help in any way I can to help builders get started and
FINISH their airplanes, to not obsess/panic/overanalyze the gnats hairs of
every possible kind of bad mojo that can smite them from the sky. We fly,
we accept risks and manage them. I can get zapped in my airplane, or while
golfing, and die from either occurance. (Just as Lee "Sparky" Trevino, who
when asked why he carries a one iron said, "not even God can hit a one
iron".)
I have worked on, assembled, calibrated and repaired high voltage, pulse
powered lasers, been hit with 27kv (I'm ok...really...don't mind the
occasional drool and twitching) and worked to isolate EMP impacts to
microcontrollers, solid state components and nearby PLC's. I have
continuity checked my entire, fully primered RV8 and found no portion of it
significantly off the DC buss ground plane. Still, everything is
single-point grounded to a solid copper bar just because it's the right
thing to do. A metal airplane, primered, not primered, single point
grounded or not, when zapped with HV, shows visible damage as you mentioned.
The fleet of composites, growing every day, may not show the full measure
of damage. Case in point: the Beechcraft Starship. One of them got zapped.
Inspectors could not accurately diagnose the extent of airframe damage.
Scratch one airplane off the FAA roster.
So then, why on earth should we go to such an extreme as to say the use of
primer throughout a metal airframe will render it non-maintainable, unsafe
or of limited lifespan when we have all these slick composite ships out
there flying around as airborne capacitors? OK, enough about my "friends
don't let friends fly plastic airplanes" diatribe. It's mostly nonsense, but
at least I don't have permanent skin rash from the fiberglass itchies.
> > It's a
> >magnificent and serious undertaking, but can't be scrutinized to the nth
> >detail in every regard or it will never fly in one man's lifetime.
> >
>Absolutely. And that's the reason why we're here crying for help all
>the time. 'Rivet experience' doesn't necessarily qualify someone as an
>expert airplane builder ...... or engineer ...... but doesn't dilute the
>knowledge either.
>Linn ...... haven't smashed a Vans rivet ..... yet.
Right on. Help is here, but I'm not going to sugar coat my reasons for
saying, "stop that, that's a waste of time and money and JUST BUILD THE
PLANE!". I have four referral checks from Van's Aircraft for a reason; I am
honest about the airplane, what it takes to get one airborne, and what it
takes to not kill yourself in one.
>
If anyone wants to be up to their elbows in alodyne tanks and acid gloves to
put together their airplane, then so be it. If you call Van's tech support
about the issue, you'll pretty much get something to the tune of "Do
whatever you want to do, prime, don't prime, use what you like. Build the
plane." They want you to be successful, to enjoy your project, and to get
airborne before the next millenium rollover.
And, so do I.
Peace folks, go build your airplanes!
Brian "prozac/viagra cocktail anyone?" Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
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