Author: Bill VonDane <bill@...> Time: Thu Aug 5, 2004 10:32 am PDT Link
Hi all...
With all the discussions on strobe power supplies going on lately, and with
the emails I received with questions about my power paks, I got some info
from my engineer on what makes my power paks (and the Whelen power supplies)
different from the automotive power supplies that are available...
As you may know, I contracted Nova to engineer and build my power paks, and
so I asked them for a comparison between my AVIPAK and their most popular
auto power pak; the XPAK604... I can get more detailed info if necessary...
"The AVIPAK has much larger discharge capacitors than the standard XPAK604.
The AVIPAK also charges the caps to a higher voltage level.
The flash rate is also much lower. This allows the AVIPAK to deliver much
higher energy discharges to the strobe heads.
The Max energy discharge from an XPAK604 is 11.5 Joules. The AVIPAK can
deliver a 27.66 Joule energy discharge!
The AVIPAK also has a beefier filter circuit on the input connection. This
makes it a bit quieter on the +12V line and will reduce RFI."
As I know it's a simple comparison, but there are significant differences...
Whelen's power supplies are very close to mine in power output, although
mine are a bit more... My power paks have a MUCH more modern design to them
to include the technology in the discharge capacitors, MOSFET circuitry for
cool and quiet operation, EMI/RFI Filtering, reverse polarity protection,
over-voltage/absent flashtube protection, tube de-ionization circuit to
prolong flashtube life, microprocessor controlled double and quadruple flash
patterns, and input surge protection...
I may be a bit biased, but I don't think you can get a better power pak...
;)
Hope this helps some of you that had questions.....oh, and soon I will have
individual power supplies for those of you that don't like the single power
supply configuration...
Thanks!
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
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Author: Bill VonDane <bill@...> Time: Thu Aug 5, 2004 10:13 am PDT Link
Hey Charlie...
Actually that's not exactly true... I just talked to my Nova Engineer on
the phone and he told me the XPAK904/906 does not have the intensity of the
AVIPAK... I'll try to explain it... This info came straight from him...
Think in terms of 1 quad flash burst to both wingtips at the same time:
The 904/906 will output about 36 joules TOTAL from the quad burst, times 2
wingtips = about 72 joules total...
The AVIPAK will output about 41 joules TOTAL from the quad burst, times 2
wingtips = about 82 joules total...
Although the AVIPAK has a lower "output rating in watts" than the 904/906,
the flash rate is also much lower which allows more time to charge a LARGER
bank of capacitors (25% larger than the 904/906), and the AVIPAK charges the
capacitors to a higher voltage at 550 volts, compared to the 904/906 which
only charges it's capacitors to 500 volts... More time to charge, higher
voltage, and larger capacitor bank directly relates to more joules and a
higher intensity flash...
The lower "output rating in watts" of the AVIPAK also means less draw on
your electrical system, 5.5A @ 12.8V for the AVIPAK vs. 8.5A @ 12.8V for the
904/906... Bigger flash with less amps!
Hope this helps...
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Kuss" <chaskuss@yahoo.com>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Strobe Power Supply Discussion...
Bill
Try comparing your unit to Nova's 904 model and all
your "alledged" superiority goes right out the window.
Charlie Kuss
--- Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com> wrote:
> Hi all...
>
> With all the discussions on strobe power supplies
> going on lately, and with
> the emails I received with questions about my power
> paks, I got some info
> from my engineer on what makes my power paks (and
> the Whelen power supplies)
> different from the automotive power supplies that
> are available...
>
> As you may know, I contracted Nova to engineer and
> build my power paks, and
> so I asked them for a comparison between my AVIPAK
> and their most popular
> auto power pak; the XPAK604... I can get more
> detailed info if necessary...
>
> "The AVIPAK has much larger discharge capacitors
> than the standard XPAK604.
> The AVIPAK also charges the caps to a higher voltage
> level.
> The flash rate is also much lower. This allows the
> AVIPAK to deliver much
> higher energy discharges to the strobe heads.
> The Max energy discharge from an XPAK604 is 11.5
> Joules. The AVIPAK can
> deliver a 27.66 Joule energy discharge!
> The AVIPAK also has a beefier filter circuit on the
> input connection. This
> makes it a bit quieter on the +12V line and will
> reduce RFI."
>
> As I know it's a simple comparison, but there are
> significant differences...
> Whelen's power supplies are very close to mine in
> power output, although
> mine are a bit more... My power paks have a MUCH
> more modern design to them
> to include the technology in the discharge
> capacitors, MOSFET circuitry for
> cool and quiet operation, EMI/RFI Filtering, reverse
> polarity protection,
> over-voltage/absent flashtube protection, tube
> de-ionization circuit to
> prolong flashtube life, microprocessor controlled
> double and quadruple flash
> patterns, and input surge protection...
>
> I may be a bit biased, but I don't think you can get
> a better power pak...
> ;)
>
> Hope this helps some of you that had
> questions.....oh, and soon I will have
> individual power supplies for those of you that
> don't like the single power
> supply configuration...
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Bill VonDane
> EAA Tech Counselor
> RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
> www.vondane.com
> www.creativair.com
> www.epanelbuilder.com
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Author: "jaybrinkmeyer" <jaybrinkmeyer@...> Time: Thu Aug 5, 2004 8:04 pm PDT Link
Bill,
What does the larger power delivery do to the MTBF of the strobe
bulbs? I'd expect that they would need to be changed out more
frequently as the components have to both handle the additional
power load and associated heat.
Jay
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Bill VonDane <bill@v...> wrote:
> Hey Charlie...
>
> Actually that's not exactly true... I just talked to my Nova
Engineer on
> the phone and he told me the XPAK904/906 does not have the
intensity of the
> AVIPAK... I'll try to explain it... This info came straight from
him...
>
> Think in terms of 1 quad flash burst to both wingtips at the same
time:
> The 904/906 will output about 36 joules TOTAL from the quad burst,
times 2
> wingtips = about 72 joules total...
> The AVIPAK will output about 41 joules TOTAL from the quad burst,
times 2
> wingtips = about 82 joules total...
>
> Although the AVIPAK has a lower "output rating in watts" than the
904/906,
> the flash rate is also much lower which allows more time to charge
a LARGER
> bank of capacitors (25% larger than the 904/906), and the AVIPAK
charges the
> capacitors to a higher voltage at 550 volts, compared to the
904/906 which
> only charges it's capacitors to 500 volts... More time to charge,
higher
> voltage, and larger capacitor bank directly relates to more joules
and a
> higher intensity flash...
>
> The lower "output rating in watts" of the AVIPAK also means less
draw on
> your electrical system, 5.5A @ 12.8V for the AVIPAK vs. 8.5A @
12.8V for the
> 904/906... Bigger flash with less amps!
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> -Bill VonDane
> EAA Tech Counselor
> RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
> www.vondane.com
> www.creativair.com
> www.epanelbuilder.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Kuss" <chaskuss@y...>
> To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Strobe Power Supply Discussion...
> Bill
> Try comparing your unit to Nova's 904 model and all
> your "alledged" superiority goes right out the window.
>
> Charlie Kuss
>
> --- Bill VonDane <bill@v...> wrote:
>
> > Hi all...
> >
> > With all the discussions on strobe power supplies
> > going on lately, and with
> > the emails I received with questions about my power
> > paks, I got some info
> > from my engineer on what makes my power paks (and
> > the Whelen power supplies)
> > different from the automotive power supplies that
> > are available...
> >
> > As you may know, I contracted Nova to engineer and
> > build my power paks, and
> > so I asked them for a comparison between my AVIPAK
> > and their most popular
> > auto power pak; the XPAK604... I can get more
> > detailed info if necessary...
> >
> > "The AVIPAK has much larger discharge capacitors
> > than the standard XPAK604.
> > The AVIPAK also charges the caps to a higher voltage
> > level.
> > The flash rate is also much lower. This allows the
> > AVIPAK to deliver much
> > higher energy discharges to the strobe heads.
> > The Max energy discharge from an XPAK604 is 11.5
> > Joules. The AVIPAK can
> > deliver a 27.66 Joule energy discharge!
> > The AVIPAK also has a beefier filter circuit on the
> > input connection. This
> > makes it a bit quieter on the +12V line and will
> > reduce RFI."
> >
> > As I know it's a simple comparison, but there are
> > significant differences...
> > Whelen's power supplies are very close to mine in
> > power output, although
> > mine are a bit more... My power paks have a MUCH
> > more modern design to them
> > to include the technology in the discharge
> > capacitors, MOSFET circuitry for
> > cool and quiet operation, EMI/RFI Filtering, reverse
> > polarity protection,
> > over-voltage/absent flashtube protection, tube
> > de-ionization circuit to
> > prolong flashtube life, microprocessor controlled
> > double and quadruple flash
> > patterns, and input surge protection...
> >
> > I may be a bit biased, but I don't think you can get
> > a better power pak...
> > ;)
> >
> > Hope this helps some of you that had
> > questions.....oh, and soon I will have
> > individual power supplies for those of you that
> > don't like the single power
> > supply configuration...
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Bill VonDane
> > EAA Tech Counselor
> > RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
> > www.vondane.com
> > www.creativair.com
> > www.epanelbuilder.com
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Author: "dejavuan2" <wvu@...> Time: Fri Aug 6, 2004 2:53 am PDT Link
For a dummy such as myself, terms
like "higher", "beefier", "larger" are all vague. Ok, some numbers
were eventually attached but still... Some of us are foreign to
terms like "joules" and "watts".
I have no reference point without seeing how the numbers compare to
FAA requirements? So here's my thought process:
More joules: 82 vs 72.... So?
Larger capcitor: 25%.... more discharge... more intensity...So?
Slower flash rate:...So? I want to be seen. I may just like faster
flash rate.
Higher voltage: 550 vs 500 (what is that.... 10% more)...So?
Lower amp: 5.5 vs 8.5...less draw on the system...So?
Lower wattage: but higher intensity due to slower flash rate. Makes
sense but still... so?
So not knowing better, I just bought my strobes
from "www.strobesnmore.com" which others have used with no negative
comments except that the tubes are fragile when handled. Check it
out.
one powerpack 70W in, 60W out (similar to others)
9 programmable flash sequences (coolness)
4 strobe tubes ($14 for a replacement vs $40)
4 shielded cables with AMP plugs, 15' each
$159 (less than 50% compare to others)
MTBF unknown
still researching on nav and landing lights-need to see more
convincing data and dollar figures.
Anh
Maryland
#141
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "jaybrinkmeyer" <jaybrinkmeyer@y...>
wrote:
> Bill,
>
> What does the larger power delivery do to the MTBF of the strobe
> bulbs? I'd expect that they would need to be changed out more
> frequently as the components have to both handle the additional
> power load and associated heat.
>
> Jay
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Bill VonDane <bill@v...> wrote:
> > Hey Charlie...
> >
> > Actually that's not exactly true... I just talked to my Nova
> Engineer on
> > the phone and he told me the XPAK904/906 does not have the
> intensity of the
> > AVIPAK... I'll try to explain it... This info came straight
from
> him...
> >
> > Think in terms of 1 quad flash burst to both wingtips at the
same
> time:
> > The 904/906 will output about 36 joules TOTAL from the quad
burst,
> times 2
> > wingtips = about 72 joules total...
> > The AVIPAK will output about 41 joules TOTAL from the quad
burst,
> times 2
> > wingtips = about 82 joules total...
> >
> > Although the AVIPAK has a lower "output rating in watts" than
the
> 904/906,
> > the flash rate is also much lower which allows more time to
charge
> a LARGER
> > bank of capacitors (25% larger than the 904/906), and the AVIPAK
> charges the
> > capacitors to a higher voltage at 550 volts, compared to the
> 904/906 which
> > only charges it's capacitors to 500 volts... More time to
charge,
> higher
> > voltage, and larger capacitor bank directly relates to more
joules
> and a
> > higher intensity flash...
> >
> > The lower "output rating in watts" of the AVIPAK also means less
> draw on
> > your electrical system, 5.5A @ 12.8V for the AVIPAK vs. 8.5A @
> 12.8V for the
> > 904/906... Bigger flash with less amps!
> >
> > Hope this helps...
> >
> > -Bill VonDane
> > EAA Tech Counselor
> > RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
> > www.vondane.com
> > www.creativair.com
> > www.epanelbuilder.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Charles Kuss" <chaskuss@y...>
> > To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Strobe Power Supply Discussion...
> > Bill
> > Try comparing your unit to Nova's 904 model and all
> > your "alledged" superiority goes right out the window.
> >
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
> > --- Bill VonDane <bill@v...> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all...
> > >
> > > With all the discussions on strobe power supplies
> > > going on lately, and with
> > > the emails I received with questions about my power
> > > paks, I got some info
> > > from my engineer on what makes my power paks (and
> > > the Whelen power supplies)
> > > different from the automotive power supplies that
> > > are available...
> > >
> > > As you may know, I contracted Nova to engineer and
> > > build my power paks, and
> > > so I asked them for a comparison between my AVIPAK
> > > and their most popular
> > > auto power pak; the XPAK604... I can get more
> > > detailed info if necessary...
> > >
> > > "The AVIPAK has much larger discharge capacitors
> > > than the standard XPAK604.
> > > The AVIPAK also charges the caps to a higher voltage
> > > level.
> > > The flash rate is also much lower. This allows the
> > > AVIPAK to deliver much
> > > higher energy discharges to the strobe heads.
> > > The Max energy discharge from an XPAK604 is 11.5
> > > Joules. The AVIPAK can
> > > deliver a 27.66 Joule energy discharge!
> > > The AVIPAK also has a beefier filter circuit on the
> > > input connection. This
> > > makes it a bit quieter on the +12V line and will
> > > reduce RFI."
> > >
> > > As I know it's a simple comparison, but there are
> > > significant differences...
> > > Whelen's power supplies are very close to mine in
> > > power output, although
> > > mine are a bit more... My power paks have a MUCH
> > > more modern design to them
> > > to include the technology in the discharge
> > > capacitors, MOSFET circuitry for
> > > cool and quiet operation, EMI/RFI Filtering, reverse
> > > polarity protection,
> > > over-voltage/absent flashtube protection, tube
> > > de-ionization circuit to
> > > prolong flashtube life, microprocessor controlled
> > > double and quadruple flash
> > > patterns, and input surge protection...
> > >
> > > I may be a bit biased, but I don't think you can get
> > > a better power pak...
> > > ;)
> > >
> > > Hope this helps some of you that had
> > > questions.....oh, and soon I will have
> > > individual power supplies for those of you that
> > > don't like the single power
> > > supply configuration...
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > -Bill VonDane
> > > EAA Tech Counselor
> > > RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
> > > www.vondane.com
> > > www.creativair.com
> > > www.epanelbuilder.com
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Author: Bill VonDane <bill@...> Time: Fri Aug 6, 2004 6:35 am PDT Link
Jay...
The bulbs are made by Nova as well, and designed to work with the power
supply... They should last a long time...
I had Whelens before mine and had a strobe tube burn out in a year...
Plus, my replacement tubes are less than half the cost of Whelens...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "jaybrinkmeyer" <jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com>
To: <RV10@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:44 AM
Subject: [RV10] Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion...
Bill,
What does the larger power delivery do to the MTBF of the strobe
bulbs? I'd expect that they would need to be changed out more
frequently as the components have to both handle the additional
power load and associated heat.
Jay
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Bill VonDane <bill@v...> wrote:
> Hey Charlie...
>
> Actually that's not exactly true... I just talked to my Nova
Engineer on
> the phone and he told me the XPAK904/906 does not have the
intensity of the
> AVIPAK... I'll try to explain it... This info came straight from
him...
>
> Think in terms of 1 quad flash burst to both wingtips at the same
time:
> The 904/906 will output about 36 joules TOTAL from the quad burst,
times 2
> wingtips = about 72 joules total...
> The AVIPAK will output about 41 joules TOTAL from the quad burst,
times 2
> wingtips = about 82 joules total...
>
> Although the AVIPAK has a lower "output rating in watts" than the
904/906,
> the flash rate is also much lower which allows more time to charge
a LARGER
> bank of capacitors (25% larger than the 904/906), and the AVIPAK
charges the
> capacitors to a higher voltage at 550 volts, compared to the
904/906 which
> only charges it's capacitors to 500 volts... More time to charge,
higher
> voltage, and larger capacitor bank directly relates to more joules
and a
> higher intensity flash...
>
> The lower "output rating in watts" of the AVIPAK also means less
draw on
> your electrical system, 5.5A @ 12.8V for the AVIPAK vs. 8.5A @
12.8V for the
> 904/906... Bigger flash with less amps!
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> -Bill VonDane
> EAA Tech Counselor
> RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
> www.vondane.com
> www.creativair.com
> www.epanelbuilder.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Kuss" <chaskuss@y...>
> To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Strobe Power Supply Discussion...
> Bill
> Try comparing your unit to Nova's 904 model and all
> your "alledged" superiority goes right out the window.
>
> Charlie Kuss
>
> --- Bill VonDane <bill@v...> wrote:
>
> > Hi all...
> >
> > With all the discussions on strobe power supplies
> > going on lately, and with
> > the emails I received with questions about my power
> > paks, I got some info
> > from my engineer on what makes my power paks (and
> > the Whelen power supplies)
> > different from the automotive power supplies that
> > are available...
> >
> > As you may know, I contracted Nova to engineer and
> > build my power paks, and
> > so I asked them for a comparison between my AVIPAK
> > and their most popular
> > auto power pak; the XPAK604... I can get more
> > detailed info if necessary...
> >
> > "The AVIPAK has much larger discharge capacitors
> > than the standard XPAK604.
> > The AVIPAK also charges the caps to a higher voltage
> > level.
> > The flash rate is also much lower. This allows the
> > AVIPAK to deliver much
> > higher energy discharges to the strobe heads.
> > The Max energy discharge from an XPAK604 is 11.5
> > Joules. The AVIPAK can
> > deliver a 27.66 Joule energy discharge!
> > The AVIPAK also has a beefier filter circuit on the
> > input connection. This
> > makes it a bit quieter on the +12V line and will
> > reduce RFI."
> >
> > As I know it's a simple comparison, but there are
> > significant differences...
> > Whelen's power supplies are very close to mine in
> > power output, although
> > mine are a bit more... My power paks have a MUCH
> > more modern design to them
> > to include the technology in the discharge
> > capacitors, MOSFET circuitry for
> > cool and quiet operation, EMI/RFI Filtering, reverse
> > polarity protection,
> > over-voltage/absent flashtube protection, tube
> > de-ionization circuit to
> > prolong flashtube life, microprocessor controlled
> > double and quadruple flash
> > patterns, and input surge protection...
> >
> > I may be a bit biased, but I don't think you can get
> > a better power pak...
> > ;)
> >
> > Hope this helps some of you that had
> > questions.....oh, and soon I will have
> > individual power supplies for those of you that
> > don't like the single power
> > supply configuration...
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Bill VonDane
> > EAA Tech Counselor
> > RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
> > www.vondane.com
> > www.creativair.com
> > www.epanelbuilder.com
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Author: "microsmurfer" <microsmurfer@...> Time: Fri Aug 6, 2004 12:52 pm PDT Link
speaking of tubes.. is it $40.00 for a pair or a piece? Are they the
same as the ones on strobesnmore (they appear to be)?
Thanks.
Radomir
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Bill VonDane <bill@v...> wrote:
> Jay...
>
> The bulbs are made by Nova as well, and designed to work with the
power
> supply... They should last a long time...
>
> I had Whelens before mine and had a strobe tube burn out in a
year...
>
> Plus, my replacement tubes are less than half the cost of Whelens...
>
> -Bill
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Author: "dejavuan2" <wvu@...> Time: Mon Aug 9, 2004 3:36 pm PDT Link
$40 each I think. Strobesnmore products are made by Whelen and Nova
so I would say the tubes are exactly the same.
Anh
$141
Wings
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "microsmurfer" <microsmurfer@y...> wrote:
> speaking of tubes.. is it $40.00 for a pair or a piece? Are they
the
> same as the ones on strobesnmore (they appear to be)?
>
> Thanks.
> Radomir
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Bill VonDane <bill@v...> wrote:
> > Jay...
> >
> > The bulbs are made by Nova as well, and designed to work with the
> power
> > supply... They should last a long time...
> >
> > I had Whelens before mine and had a strobe tube burn out in a
> year...
> >
> > Plus, my replacement tubes are less than half the cost of
Whelens...
> >
> > -Bill
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