Author: Tim Olson <tim@...> Time: Sun Aug 8, 2004 7:45 am PDT Link
Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On page
13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the spars,
they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets go,
and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for drilling the
tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those positions.
Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when installing the
tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd point
that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
already?
Tim
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Author: "James McClow" <james@...> Time: Sun Aug 8, 2004 11:37 am PDT Link
My spars didn't have the rivets there. I just match drilled like the plans
stated after making the one starter hole and have them permanently assembled
to the spar now. Here are the logs of mine:
http://mcclowsrv10.com/daily_update/wing_logs/wing_8_03_04.htm I seemed to
go smooth. I hate having to drill out rivets. It seems to come out funky
typically. For me anyway!
James 191
Wing rib priming
www.mcclowsrv10.com <http://www.mcclowsrv10.com/>
_____
From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@MyRV10.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:53 PM
To: RV10
Subject: [RV10] Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down Brackets
Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On page
13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the spars,
they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets go,
and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for drilling the
tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those positions.
Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when installing the
tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd point
that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
already?
Tim
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Author: "dejavuan2" <wvu@...> Time: Mon Aug 9, 2004 3:36 pm PDT Link
Tim,
Similarly to James, I didn't have to drill any rivets out to install
the tie-downs either. Is it this way on both of your spars?
Anh
#141
Closing bottom skins on second wing
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "James McClow" <james@m...> wrote:
> My spars didn't have the rivets there. I just match drilled like
the plans
> stated after making the one starter hole and have them permanently
assembled
> to the spar now. Here are the logs of mine:
> http://mcclowsrv10.com/daily_update/wing_logs/wing_8_03_04.htm I
seemed to
> go smooth. I hate having to drill out rivets. It seems to come out
funky
> typically. For me anyway!
>
> James 191
> Wing rib priming
> www.mcclowsrv10.com <http://www.mcclowsrv10.com/>
>
> _____
>
> From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:53 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: [RV10] Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
Brackets
>
> Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
page
> 13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the spars,
> they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
go,
> and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
drilling the
> tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
positions.
> Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when installing
the
> tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
point
> that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
> Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
> already?
> Tim
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
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/www.n
> etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> click here
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Author: "jaybrinkmeyer" <jaybrinkmeyer@...> Time: Mon Aug 9, 2004 3:38 pm PDT Link
Something's definitely wrong. You shouldn't have to drill out rivets
to install the tie downs. Are you positive you don't have either the
tie down position wrong or the brackets going the wrong way? I
didn't have to drill anything but what the plans showed. If
something doesn't fit, it's probably cause it's not in there
correctly.
Jay
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Tim Olson <tim@M...> wrote:
> Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
page
> 13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the
spars,
> they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
go,
> and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
drilling the
> tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
positions.
> Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when
installing the
> tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
point
> that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
> Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
> already?
> Tim
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Author: Tim Olson <tim@...> Time: Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:37 am PDT Link
Yeah, both my spars had those rivets in place. The same rivets as all
the others along that lower row. I'm not crazy....I looked at it for
a while and knew for sure up from down and everything. I realized that
I was right when I saw that there was absolutely no place where I had
2 consecutive empty holes in the row of rivets. In order to put the
tie down bracket in, there'd be 2 open holes. They were easy to drill
out, and yesterday I attached the landing gear brackets and completed
the first section (13) of the wing manual. Now onto the ribs!
How about answering a quick question..... Those J-stiffners that you
clamp to the spar and match drill. The drawing wasn't the hottest
so in those areas that it says "don't match drill this area", I may
have drilled one or two rivet holes down the line into one or
two of those areas. Now that you see them placed, does this cause
any concern at all, or is it no problem at all? It looks like you
place them on the ribs, not anywhere near the spar where they
were match drilled. Must just have used the spar as a template
for the hole spacing, right?
Tim
Starting Section 14
dejavuan2 wrote:
> Tim,
> Similarly to James, I didn't have to drill any rivets out to install
> the tie-downs either. Is it this way on both of your spars?
> Anh
> #141
> Closing bottom skins on second wing
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "James McClow" <james@m...> wrote:
>
>>My spars didn't have the rivets there. I just match drilled like
>
> the plans
>
>>stated after making the one starter hole and have them permanently
>
> assembled
>
>>to the spar now. Here are the logs of mine:
>>http://mcclowsrv10.com/daily_update/wing_logs/wing_8_03_04.htm I
>
> seemed to
>
>>go smooth. I hate having to drill out rivets. It seems to come out
>
> funky
>
>>typically. For me anyway!
>>
>>James 191
>>Wing rib priming
>>www.mcclowsrv10.com <http://www.mcclowsrv10.com/>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:53 PM
>>To: RV10
>>Subject: [RV10] Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
>
> Brackets
>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
>
> page
>
>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the spars,
>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
>
> go,
>
>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
>
> drilling the
>
>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
>
> positions.
>
>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when installing
>
> the
>
>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
>
> point
>
>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
>>already?
>>Tim
>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>ADVERTISEMENT
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> 6/D=gr
>
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> /www.n
>
>>etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> click here
>><http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
>
> M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=
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>>:HM/A=2164331/rand=512889260>
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>>
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>
> Service
>
>><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: Tim Olson <tim@...> Time: Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:40 am PDT Link
I did post pictures of my spars with the tie-down brackets on them, if
anyone wants to play critic as to the quality, or to the placement of
the tie-down rackets.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/wing/20040808/index.html
PS: I booked a flight to Portland today, for Aug. 23rd and 24th.
Can't wait for a ride in that -10 demo! I'll report back as I
have info!
Tim
jaybrinkmeyer wrote:
> Something's definitely wrong. You shouldn't have to drill out rivets
> to install the tie downs. Are you positive you don't have either the
> tie down position wrong or the brackets going the wrong way? I
> didn't have to drill anything but what the plans showed. If
> something doesn't fit, it's probably cause it's not in there
> correctly.
>
> Jay
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Tim Olson <tim@M...> wrote:
>
>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
>
> page
>
>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the
>
> spars,
>
>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
>
> go,
>
>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
>
> drilling the
>
>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
>
> positions.
>
>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when
>
> installing the
>
>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
>
> point
>
>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
>>already?
>>Tim
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: Tim Olson <tim@...> Time: Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:41 am PDT Link
Well, I just posted back on this a minute ago, but yep, I'm
really sure that the bracket and spar are the proper way.
With that length of stepped down bar on the back, it's
easy to tell up from down, and of course the threaded end
of the bracket goes toward the ground. And, it's easy to
see by the drawing where the bracket goes in relation to
that last area of spar doubler. Like I just mentioned in
a previous post.....if there had been ANYWHERE where 2 of those
rivets in a row were missing, I'd have reason to doubt it
a bit, but I had every rivet hole filled with those suckers.
I'm sure the guy loading the rivets into the spar was just
droning along one summer friday afternoon or something.
I have pictures that I'll post relatively soon.
I just wanted to find out if this was a widespread or isolated
problem.
Tim
jaybrinkmeyer wrote:
> Something's definitely wrong. You shouldn't have to drill out rivets
> to install the tie downs. Are you positive you don't have either the
> tie down position wrong or the brackets going the wrong way? I
> didn't have to drill anything but what the plans showed. If
> something doesn't fit, it's probably cause it's not in there
> correctly.
>
> Jay
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Tim Olson <tim@M...> wrote:
>
>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
>
> page
>
>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the
>
> spars,
>
>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
>
> go,
>
>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
>
> drilling the
>
>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
>
> positions.
>
>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when
>
> installing the
>
>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
>
> point
>
>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
>>already?
>>Tim
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@...> Time: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:28 am PDT Link
Just to put your mind at ease - I had one spar that was correct and
the other had one rivet that needed to be drilled out.
Bob #40105
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Tim Olson <tim@M...> wrote:
> Well, I just posted back on this a minute ago, but yep, I'm
> really sure that the bracket and spar are the proper way.
> With that length of stepped down bar on the back, it's
> easy to tell up from down, and of course the threaded end
> of the bracket goes toward the ground. And, it's easy to
> see by the drawing where the bracket goes in relation to
> that last area of spar doubler. Like I just mentioned in
> a previous post.....if there had been ANYWHERE where 2 of those
> rivets in a row were missing, I'd have reason to doubt it
> a bit, but I had every rivet hole filled with those suckers.
> I'm sure the guy loading the rivets into the spar was just
> droning along one summer friday afternoon or something.
> I have pictures that I'll post relatively soon.
> I just wanted to find out if this was a widespread or isolated
> problem.
>
> Tim
>
> jaybrinkmeyer wrote:
>
> > Something's definitely wrong. You shouldn't have to drill out
rivets
> > to install the tie downs. Are you positive you don't have either
the
> > tie down position wrong or the brackets going the wrong way? I
> > didn't have to drill anything but what the plans showed. If
> > something doesn't fit, it's probably cause it's not in there
> > correctly.
> >
> > Jay
> > --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Tim Olson <tim@M...> wrote:
> >
> >>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
> >
> > page
> >
> >>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the
> >
> > spars,
> >
> >>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
> >
> > go,
> >
> >>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
> >
> > drilling the
> >
> >>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
> >
> > positions.
> >
> >>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when
> >
> > installing the
> >
> >>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
> >
> > point
> >
> >>that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
> >>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets
installed
> >>already?
> >>Tim
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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Author: "James McClow" <james@...> Time: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:47 am PDT Link
Hey Tim.
Yea, the spar is the template for the stiffeners unless you went quick
build. So yes. I didn't go quick build either. I had to reread that area a
few times and thought at first how the heck are the ribs going to attach to
this without the j-channel getting in the way? I was confused a bit..(ok
Rick, Brian, easy.not that confused. LOLOLOL) I did the same thing and
noticed that I drilled a couple of the holes to the side of where it said to
stop at first but then stopped too. I didn't drill where the nut plates
where at all but there is a hole on each end that is in close proximity to
the holes we don't drill that I did. Oooops. I figure no big deal. The
strength is spread out along the stiffeners and one or five extra holes
wouldn't hurt.
I read on into the plans to the end to understand what goes where better.
The plans should probably have a small side note on that page telling us why
not to drill and that the spar is used as a template for std wing builders.
It is nice. I guess the only difference from these stiffeners and the tail
cone stiffeners is that we drew a line on the tail cone stiffeners at
5/16th's from the edge and just drilled it when the skin was attached. It
seems to me we will still need to match drill a few hole where we didn't on
the stiffeners but since we already have 80% of them drilled using the spar
as a template it will be easier since we will have cleco's holding the skin
in place and will only need to drill a small handful of holes.. The emp
plans had things like me that but the wings do not. I had to read ahead to
make myself understand better. I wouldn't worry about it!!! It isn't a big
deal unless you drilled them all. If not I wouldn't sweat it! I am not going
to. May be a call to Vans if you cut all of em but if not just full em with
aluminum weld or leave em.Here is the aluminum weld I am using hopefully to
close out my fuel tanks instead of tank sealant. Not totally sure yet. Worst
case I can buy a couple of messed up ribs but I have been practicing. I am
getting good at fabricating with a low heat propane torch and aluminum rods:
http://newtechnologyproducts.net/login/main.asp check out the video, you'll
be hooked. I learned on the scrap vans sent. It works great!!! Who needs
rivets LOLOL,! Hopefully this will not start a pro seal war.I just like
trying new things : ) I may not do it if I don't get good enough but I have
filled holes. Watch the video and you will see what I mean. It is killer.
Fill holes or repair an engine block!
James
191
Priming the ribs, starting the rear spar assembly.
www.romeovictor.com <http://www.romeovictor.com/>
_____
From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@MyRV10.com]
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:27 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com; wvu@mail.ameritel.net
Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
Brackets
Yeah, both my spars had those rivets in place. The same rivets as all
the others along that lower row. I'm not crazy....I looked at it for
a while and knew for sure up from down and everything. I realized that
I was right when I saw that there was absolutely no place where I had
2 consecutive empty holes in the row of rivets. In order to put the
tie down bracket in, there'd be 2 open holes. They were easy to drill
out, and yesterday I attached the landing gear brackets and completed
the first section (13) of the wing manual. Now onto the ribs!
How about answering a quick question..... Those J-stiffners that you
clamp to the spar and match drill. The drawing wasn't the hottest
so in those areas that it says "don't match drill this area", I may
have drilled one or two rivet holes down the line into one or
two of those areas. Now that you see them placed, does this cause
any concern at all, or is it no problem at all? It looks like you
place them on the ribs, not anywhere near the spar where they
were match drilled. Must just have used the spar as a template
for the hole spacing, right?
Tim
Starting Section 14
dejavuan2 wrote:
> Tim,
> Similarly to James, I didn't have to drill any rivets out to install
> the tie-downs either. Is it this way on both of your spars?
> Anh
> #141
> Closing bottom skins on second wing
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "James McClow" <james@m...> wrote:
>
>>My spars didn't have the rivets there. I just match drilled like
>
> the plans
>
>>stated after making the one starter hole and have them permanently
>
> assembled
>
>>to the spar now. Here are the logs of mine:
>>http://mcclowsrv10.com/daily_update/wing_logs/wing_8_03_04.htm I
>
> seemed to
>
>>go smooth. I hate having to drill out rivets. It seems to come out
>
> funky
>
>>typically. For me anyway!
>>
>>James 191
>>Wing rib priming
>>www.mcclowsrv10.com <http://www.mcclowsrv10.com/>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:53 PM
>>To: RV10
>>Subject: [RV10] Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
>
> Brackets
>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
>
> page
>
>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the spars,
>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
>
> go,
>
>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
>
> drilling the
>
>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
>
> positions.
>
>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when installing
>
> the
>
>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
>
> point
>
>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
>>already?
>>Tim
>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>ADVERTISEMENT
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> 6/D=gr
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> /www.n
>
>>etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> click here
>><http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
>
> M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=
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Author: "James McClow" <james@...> Time: Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:35 am PDT Link
I got an email from a guy who had been watching on my camera a couple of
weeks ago and said he got both spars set up left hand and asked me if I did
too. Vans shipped the new ones but he did not mention anything like this.
James
_____
From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@MyRV10.com]
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 8:01 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
Brackets
Well, I just posted back on this a minute ago, but yep, I'm
really sure that the bracket and spar are the proper way.
With that length of stepped down bar on the back, it's
easy to tell up from down, and of course the threaded end
of the bracket goes toward the ground. And, it's easy to
see by the drawing where the bracket goes in relation to
that last area of spar doubler. Like I just mentioned in
a previous post.....if there had been ANYWHERE where 2 of those
rivets in a row were missing, I'd have reason to doubt it
a bit, but I had every rivet hole filled with those suckers.
I'm sure the guy loading the rivets into the spar was just
droning along one summer friday afternoon or something.
I have pictures that I'll post relatively soon.
I just wanted to find out if this was a widespread or isolated
problem.
Tim
jaybrinkmeyer wrote:
> Something's definitely wrong. You shouldn't have to drill out rivets
> to install the tie downs. Are you positive you don't have either the
> tie down position wrong or the brackets going the wrong way? I
> didn't have to drill anything but what the plans showed. If
> something doesn't fit, it's probably cause it's not in there
> correctly.
>
> Jay
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Tim Olson <tim@M...> wrote:
>
>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
>
> page
>
>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the
>
> spars,
>
>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
>
> go,
>
>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
>
> drilling the
>
>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
>
> positions.
>
>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when
>
> installing the
>
>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
>
> point
>
>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
>>already?
>>Tim
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: Tim Olson <tim@...> Time: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:53 pm PDT Link
Yeah, I wasn't too worried about the holes. Just haven't yet found
a reason to be.
As for the aluminum welding. One thing to consider.... The ProSeal,
while getting stiffer with age, is still very plastic. The wings
are going to have a lot of flex in them. When I fly my Sundowner,
in turbulence you see the wings bounce a bit, and when I've seen
someone pound it on (not me....of course :) )The wings take a bit
of stress too (the gear is attached to the wing spar). I don't
know how flexible the aluminum weld stuff is, but you're going
to want something as plastic as can be, without being runny or flowing.
All it takes is a hairline crack in a weld, and you'll have fuel
seepage, and you definitely don't want fuel fumes in your wing
cavities.
Not that I have a problem with the weld, it's just that for
trusting something to hold back an explosive liquid, I think I'll
stick with the time-proven product like proseal. I did help a friend
build his RV4 tanks. The stuff isn't fun at all, but I don't think
it's nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. You just have to
keep changing gloves, and wipe down your tools. I think myself, I'll
use electricians tap to wrap my rivet squeezer and rivet gun, so that
way I can just unwrap the tape when it's all done and have clean tools.
MEK cleans the stuff up well too...even the next day.
Tim
James McClow wrote:
> Hey Tim.
>
> Yea, the spar is the template for the stiffeners unless you went quick
> build. So yes. I didn't go quick build either. I had to reread that area a
> few times and thought at first how the heck are the ribs going to attach to
> this without the j-channel getting in the way? I was confused a bit..(ok
> Rick, Brian, easy.not that confused. LOLOLOL) I did the same thing and
> noticed that I drilled a couple of the holes to the side of where it said to
> stop at first but then stopped too. I didn't drill where the nut plates
> where at all but there is a hole on each end that is in close proximity to
> the holes we don't drill that I did. Oooops. I figure no big deal. The
> strength is spread out along the stiffeners and one or five extra holes
> wouldn't hurt.
>
> I read on into the plans to the end to understand what goes where better.
> The plans should probably have a small side note on that page telling us why
> not to drill and that the spar is used as a template for std wing builders.
> It is nice. I guess the only difference from these stiffeners and the tail
> cone stiffeners is that we drew a line on the tail cone stiffeners at
> 5/16th's from the edge and just drilled it when the skin was attached. It
> seems to me we will still need to match drill a few hole where we didn't on
> the stiffeners but since we already have 80% of them drilled using the spar
> as a template it will be easier since we will have cleco's holding the skin
> in place and will only need to drill a small handful of holes.. The emp
> plans had things like me that but the wings do not. I had to read ahead to
> make myself understand better. I wouldn't worry about it!!! It isn't a big
> deal unless you drilled them all. If not I wouldn't sweat it! I am not going
> to. May be a call to Vans if you cut all of em but if not just full em with
> aluminum weld or leave em.Here is the aluminum weld I am using hopefully to
> close out my fuel tanks instead of tank sealant. Not totally sure yet. Worst
> case I can buy a couple of messed up ribs but I have been practicing. I am
> getting good at fabricating with a low heat propane torch and aluminum rods:
> http://newtechnologyproducts.net/login/main.asp check out the video, you'll
> be hooked. I learned on the scrap vans sent. It works great!!! Who needs
> rivets LOLOL,! Hopefully this will not start a pro seal war.I just like
> trying new things : ) I may not do it if I don't get good enough but I have
> filled holes. Watch the video and you will see what I mean. It is killer.
> Fill holes or repair an engine block!
>
> James
> 191
> Priming the ribs, starting the rear spar assembly.
> www.romeovictor.com <http://www.romeovictor.com/>
>
> _____
>
> From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@MyRV10.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:27 PM
> To: RV10@yahoogroups.com; wvu@mail.ameritel.net
> Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
> Brackets
>
> Yeah, both my spars had those rivets in place. The same rivets as all
> the others along that lower row. I'm not crazy....I looked at it for
> a while and knew for sure up from down and everything. I realized that
> I was right when I saw that there was absolutely no place where I had
> 2 consecutive empty holes in the row of rivets. In order to put the
> tie down bracket in, there'd be 2 open holes. They were easy to drill
> out, and yesterday I attached the landing gear brackets and completed
> the first section (13) of the wing manual. Now onto the ribs!
>
> How about answering a quick question..... Those J-stiffners that you
> clamp to the spar and match drill. The drawing wasn't the hottest
> so in those areas that it says "don't match drill this area", I may
> have drilled one or two rivet holes down the line into one or
> two of those areas. Now that you see them placed, does this cause
> any concern at all, or is it no problem at all? It looks like you
> place them on the ribs, not anywhere near the spar where they
> were match drilled. Must just have used the spar as a template
> for the hole spacing, right?
>
> Tim
> Starting Section 14
> dejavuan2 wrote:
>>Tim,
>>Similarly to James, I didn't have to drill any rivets out to install
>>the tie-downs either. Is it this way on both of your spars?
>>Anh
>>#141
>>Closing bottom skins on second wing
>>--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "James McClow" <james@m...> wrote:
>>>My spars didn't have the rivets there. I just match drilled like
>>
>>the plans
>>>stated after making the one starter hole and have them permanently
>>
>>assembled
>>>to the spar now. Here are the logs of mine:
>>>http://mcclowsrv10.com/daily_update/wing_logs/wing_8_03_04.htm I
>>
>>seemed to
>>>go smooth. I hate having to drill out rivets. It seems to come out
>>
>>funky
>>>typically. For me anyway!
>>>
>>>James 191
>>>Wing rib priming
>>>www.mcclowsrv10.com <http://www.mcclowsrv10.com/>
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>>From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
>>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:53 PM
>>>To: RV10
>>>Subject: [RV10] Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
>>
>>Brackets
>>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
>>
>>page
>>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the spars,
>>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
>>
>>go,
>>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
>>
>>drilling the
>>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
>>
>>positions.
>>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when installing
>>
>>the
>>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
>>
>>point
>>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
>>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
>>>already?
>>>Tim
>>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>>ADVERTISEMENT
>><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129190qeg/M=298184.5285298.6392945.300117
>>6/D=gr
>>
>>oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1092062748/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/*http:
>>/www.n
>>>etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> click here
>>><http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
>>
>>M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=
>>>:HM/A=2164331/rand=512889260>
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>>>
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>>>RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>>>
>>>* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>
>>Service
>>><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: Rick Sked <heeder777@...> Time: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:54 pm PDT Link
Hey Jimmy Mac!!
What do you mean Rick & Brian???
Just cause right traffic for 21 left confuses you doesn't mean that your building two left wings...or does it ;)
Rick
40185, riveting tailcone and
$7500.00 richer than you guys that have your wings.
James McClow <james@mcclowsrv10.com> wrote:
Hey Tim.
Yea, the spar is the template for the stiffeners unless you went quick
build. So yes. I didn't go quick build either. I had to reread that area a
few times and thought at first how the heck are the ribs going to attach to
this without the j-channel getting in the way? I was confused a bit..(ok
Rick, Brian, easy.not that confused. LOLOLOL) I did the same thing and
noticed that I drilled a couple of the holes to the side of where it said to
stop at first but then stopped too. I didn't drill where the nut plates
where at all but there is a hole on each end that is in close proximity to
the holes we don't drill that I did. Oooops. I figure no big deal. The
strength is spread out along the stiffeners and one or five extra holes
wouldn't hurt.
I read on into the plans to the end to understand what goes where better.
The plans should probably have a small side note on that page telling us why
not to drill and that the spar is used as a template for std wing builders.
It is nice. I guess the only difference from these stiffeners and the tail
cone stiffeners is that we drew a line on the tail cone stiffeners at
5/16th's from the edge and just drilled it when the skin was attached. It
seems to me we will still need to match drill a few hole where we didn't on
the stiffeners but since we already have 80% of them drilled using the spar
as a template it will be easier since we will have cleco's holding the skin
in place and will only need to drill a small handful of holes.. The emp
plans had things like me that but the wings do not. I had to read ahead to
make myself understand better. I wouldn't worry about it!!! It isn't a big
deal unless you drilled them all. If not I wouldn't sweat it! I am not going
to. May be a call to Vans if you cut all of em but if not just full em with
aluminum weld or leave em.Here is the aluminum weld I am using hopefully to
close out my fuel tanks instead of tank sealant. Not totally sure yet. Worst
case I can buy a couple of messed up ribs but I have been practicing. I am
getting good at fabricating with a low heat propane torch and aluminum rods:
http://newtechnologyproducts.net/login/main.asp check out the video, you'll
be hooked. I learned on the scrap vans sent. It works great!!! Who needs
rivets LOLOL,! Hopefully this will not start a pro seal war.I just like
trying new things : ) I may not do it if I don't get good enough but I have
filled holes. Watch the video and you will see what I mean. It is killer.
Fill holes or repair an engine block!
James
191
Priming the ribs, starting the rear spar assembly.
www.romeovictor.com <http://www.romeovictor.com/>
_____
From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@MyRV10.com]
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:27 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com; wvu@mail.ameritel.net
Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
Brackets
Yeah, both my spars had those rivets in place. The same rivets as all
the others along that lower row. I'm not crazy....I looked at it for
a while and knew for sure up from down and everything. I realized that
I was right when I saw that there was absolutely no place where I had
2 consecutive empty holes in the row of rivets. In order to put the
tie down bracket in, there'd be 2 open holes. They were easy to drill
out, and yesterday I attached the landing gear brackets and completed
the first section (13) of the wing manual. Now onto the ribs!
How about answering a quick question..... Those J-stiffners that you
clamp to the spar and match drill. The drawing wasn't the hottest
so in those areas that it says "don't match drill this area", I may
have drilled one or two rivet holes down the line into one or
two of those areas. Now that you see them placed, does this cause
any concern at all, or is it no problem at all? It looks like you
place them on the ribs, not anywhere near the spar where they
were match drilled. Must just have used the spar as a template
for the hole spacing, right?
Tim
Starting Section 14
dejavuan2 wrote:
> Tim,
> Similarly to James, I didn't have to drill any rivets out to install
> the tie-downs either. Is it this way on both of your spars?
> Anh
> #141
> Closing bottom skins on second wing
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "James McClow" <james@m...> wrote:
>
>>My spars didn't have the rivets there. I just match drilled like
>
> the plans
>
>>stated after making the one starter hole and have them permanently
>
> assembled
>
>>to the spar now. Here are the logs of mine:
>>http://mcclowsrv10.com/daily_update/wing_logs/wing_8_03_04.htm I
>
> seemed to
>
>>go smooth. I hate having to drill out rivets. It seems to come out
>
> funky
>
>>typically. For me anyway!
>>
>>James 191
>>Wing rib priming
>>www.mcclowsrv10.com <http://www.mcclowsrv10.com/>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:53 PM
>>To: RV10
>>Subject: [RV10] Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
>
> Brackets
>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
>
> page
>
>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the spars,
>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
>
> go,
>
>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
>
> drilling the
>
>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
>
> positions.
>
>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when installing
>
> the
>
>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
>
> point
>
>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
>>already?
>>Tim
>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129190qeg/M=298184.5285298.6392945.300117
> 6/D=gr
>
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1092062748/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/*http:
> /www.n
>
>>etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> click here
>><http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
>
> M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=
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>>:HM/A=2164331/rand=512889260>
>>
>> _____
>>
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>>
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>><mailto:RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>>
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>
> Service
>
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>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: "James McClow" <james@...> Time: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:53 am PDT Link
Yea, I could see that being an issue! A colleague and rv builder
locally here was fabricating wing tanks with it and has been very
successful but to go further I have received a few offline emails on
the subject and considering I am going to be building my fuel tanks
in the next two weeks or so I will surely use the proseal after some
discussions I have had. I was hoping some of the folks that lurk the
boards from an engineering stand point would have some information
on it or should I say A& P folks from the group. Although I agree
the wings will flex a bit at various stages of flight I have to
wonder what cessna, Socata and some of the certifieds do in this
case. Arent they welded tanks. This was my impression?.
Anyway, I appreciate the feedback from all! It is always important
and one of the reasons I like this open forum.
Happy building,
James
191
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Tim Olson <tim@M...> wrote:
> Yeah, I wasn't too worried about the holes. Just haven't yet found
> a reason to be.
>
> As for the aluminum welding. One thing to consider.... The
ProSeal,
> while getting stiffer with age, is still very plastic. The wings
> are going to have a lot of flex in them. When I fly my Sundowner,
> in turbulence you see the wings bounce a bit, and when I've seen
> someone pound it on (not me....of course :) )The wings take a bit
> of stress too (the gear is attached to the wing spar). I don't
> know how flexible the aluminum weld stuff is, but you're going
> to want something as plastic as can be, without being runny or
flowing.
> All it takes is a hairline crack in a weld, and you'll have fuel
> seepage, and you definitely don't want fuel fumes in your wing
> cavities.
>
> Not that I have a problem with the weld, it's just that for
> trusting something to hold back an explosive liquid, I think I'll
> stick with the time-proven product like proseal. I did help a
friend
> build his RV4 tanks. The stuff isn't fun at all, but I don't think
> it's nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. You just
have to
> keep changing gloves, and wipe down your tools. I think myself,
I'll
> use electricians tap to wrap my rivet squeezer and rivet gun, so
that
> way I can just unwrap the tape when it's all done and have clean
tools.
>
> MEK cleans the stuff up well too...even the next day.
> Tim
> James McClow wrote:
>
> > Hey Tim.
> >
> > Yea, the spar is the template for the stiffeners unless you went
quick
> > build. So yes. I didn't go quick build either. I had to reread
that area a
> > few times and thought at first how the heck are the ribs going
to attach to
> > this without the j-channel getting in the way? I was confused a
bit..(ok
> > Rick, Brian, easy.not that confused. LOLOLOL) I did the same
thing and
> > noticed that I drilled a couple of the holes to the side of
where it said to
> > stop at first but then stopped too. I didn't drill where the nut
plates
> > where at all but there is a hole on each end that is in close
proximity to
> > the holes we don't drill that I did. Oooops. I figure no big
deal. The
> > strength is spread out along the stiffeners and one or five
extra holes
> > wouldn't hurt.
> >
> > I read on into the plans to the end to understand what goes
where better.
> > The plans should probably have a small side note on that page
telling us why
> > not to drill and that the spar is used as a template for std
wing builders.
> > It is nice. I guess the only difference from these stiffeners
and the tail
> > cone stiffeners is that we drew a line on the tail cone
stiffeners at
> > 5/16th's from the edge and just drilled it when the skin was
attached. It
> > seems to me we will still need to match drill a few hole where
we didn't on
> > the stiffeners but since we already have 80% of them drilled
using the spar
> > as a template it will be easier since we will have cleco's
holding the skin
> > in place and will only need to drill a small handful of holes..
The emp
> > plans had things like me that but the wings do not. I had to
read ahead to
> > make myself understand better. I wouldn't worry about it!!! It
isn't a big
> > deal unless you drilled them all. If not I wouldn't sweat it! I
am not going
> > to. May be a call to Vans if you cut all of em but if not just
full em with
> > aluminum weld or leave em.Here is the aluminum weld I am using
hopefully to
> > close out my fuel tanks instead of tank sealant. Not totally
sure yet. Worst
> > case I can buy a couple of messed up ribs but I have been
practicing. I am
> > getting good at fabricating with a low heat propane torch and
aluminum rods:
> > http://newtechnologyproducts.net/login/main.asp check out the
video, you'll
> > be hooked. I learned on the scrap vans sent. It works great!!!
Who needs
> > rivets LOLOL,! Hopefully this will not start a pro seal war.I
just like
> > trying new things : ) I may not do it if I don't get good enough
but I have
> > filled holes. Watch the video and you will see what I mean. It
is killer.
> > Fill holes or repair an engine block!
> >
> > James
> > 191
> > Priming the ribs, starting the rear spar assembly.
> > www.romeovictor.com <http://www.romeovictor.com/>
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
> > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:27 PM
> > To: RV10@yahoogroups.com; wvu@m...
> > Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Instructions or part minor issue with
Tie-Down
> > Brackets
> >
> > Yeah, both my spars had those rivets in place. The same rivets
as all
> > the others along that lower row. I'm not crazy....I looked at
it for
> > a while and knew for sure up from down and everything. I
realized that
> > I was right when I saw that there was absolutely no place where
I had
> > 2 consecutive empty holes in the row of rivets. In order to put
the
> > tie down bracket in, there'd be 2 open holes. They were easy to
drill
> > out, and yesterday I attached the landing gear brackets and
completed
> > the first section (13) of the wing manual. Now onto the ribs!
> >
> > How about answering a quick question..... Those J-stiffners
that you
> > clamp to the spar and match drill. The drawing wasn't the
hottest
> > so in those areas that it says "don't match drill this area", I
may
> > have drilled one or two rivet holes down the line into one or
> > two of those areas. Now that you see them placed, does this
cause
> > any concern at all, or is it no problem at all? It looks like
you
> > place them on the ribs, not anywhere near the spar where they
> > were match drilled. Must just have used the spar as a template
> > for the hole spacing, right?
> >
> > Tim
> > Starting Section 14
> > dejavuan2 wrote:
> >>Tim,
> >>Similarly to James, I didn't have to drill any rivets out to
install
> >>the tie-downs either. Is it this way on both of your spars?
> >>Anh
> >>#141
> >>Closing bottom skins on second wing
> >>--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "James McClow" <james@m...> wrote:
> >>>My spars didn't have the rivets there. I just match drilled
like
> >>
> >>the plans
> >>>stated after making the one starter hole and have them
permanently
> >>
> >>assembled
> >>>to the spar now. Here are the logs of mine:
> >>>http://mcclowsrv10.com/daily_update/wing_logs/wing_8_03_04.htm
I
> >>
> >>seemed to
> >>>go smooth. I hate having to drill out rivets. It seems to come
out
> >>
> >>funky
> >>>typically. For me anyway!
> >>>
> >>>James 191
> >>>Wing rib priming
> >>>www.mcclowsrv10.com <http://www.mcclowsrv10.com/>
> >>>
> >>> _____
> >>>
> >>>From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
> >>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:53 PM
> >>>To: RV10
> >>>Subject: [RV10] Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
> >>
> >>Brackets
> >>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
> >>
> >>page
> >>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the
spars,
> >>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16
rivets
> >>
> >>go,
> >>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
> >>
> >>drilling the
> >>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
> >>
> >>positions.
> >>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when
installing
> >>
> >>the
> >>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought
I'd
> >>
> >>point
> >>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the
question.
> >>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets
installed
> >>>already?
> >>>Tim
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >>>ADVERTISEMENT
>><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129190qeg/M=298184.5285298.6392945.300
117
> >>6/D=gr
>>oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1092062748/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/*ht
tp:
> >>/www.n
> >>>etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> click here
> >>><http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
> >>
> >>M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=
> >>>:HM/A=2164331/rand=512889260>
> >>>
> >>> _____
> >>>
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
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of
> >>
> >>Service
> >>><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
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> > ADVERTISEMENT
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Author: "James McClow" <james@...> Time: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:54 am PDT Link
LOL.I posted a photo of the new dress and skirt from when I lost my cleco
PLIERS here it is:
http://n204mc.com/ipw-web/gallery/wing_kit/wing_construction_8_08_04_045 I
was waiting for some funny remark to my comment to Tim on my too drilling
out to many holes inadvertently as he did. You beat me to it!
<SNIP>
From: Rick Sked
Sounds like you need a little cheese with your whine there James, I will
admit
to my cleco gun but I have a bum hand...not big and strong like you...and
those
puppies are sooo cute. Now get in that mini van of yours and get those kids
to
school Mom...I mean Dad. ;D
Macy's is having a Skirt sale this weekend BTW.
Rick
40185
<SNIP>
Keeping my eye on you and Brian from the cleco "GUN" incident!!!! LOL.Ok,
pliers and I got two new ones and back to work. Funny thing came out of it
though, when I tried to use regular pliers to continue setting my ribs on
the main wing spar I had cleco's shooting across the room since the pliers
are not set up to grasp cleco's properly. I mean shooting. They where
missiles. I wouldn't let the kids out here until I got the new cleco tools.
It was dangerous in here.
Happy Building,
James getting poorer and poorer by the rivet : >)~
I figure by the time I order and receive the fuse it will be spam all the
way in our house.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~
From: Rick Sked [mailto:heeder777@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:28 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
Brackets
Hey Jimmy Mac!!
What do you mean Rick & Brian???
Just cause right traffic for 21 left confuses you doesn't mean that your
building two left wings...or does it ;)
Rick
40185, riveting tailcone and
$7500.00 richer than you guys that have your wings.
James McClow <james@mcclowsrv10.com> wrote:
Hey Tim.
Yea, the spar is the template for the stiffeners unless you went quick
build. So yes. I didn't go quick build either. I had to reread that area a
few times and thought at first how the heck are the ribs going to attach to
this without the j-channel getting in the way? I was confused a bit..(ok
Rick, Brian, easy.not that confused. LOLOLOL) I did the same thing and
noticed that I drilled a couple of the holes to the side of where it said to
stop at first but then stopped too. I didn't drill where the nut plates
where at all but there is a hole on each end that is in close proximity to
the holes we don't drill that I did. Oooops. I figure no big deal. The
strength is spread out along the stiffeners and one or five extra holes
wouldn't hurt.
I read on into the plans to the end to understand what goes where better.
The plans should probably have a small side note on that page telling us why
not to drill and that the spar is used as a template for std wing builders.
It is nice. I guess the only difference from these stiffeners and the tail
cone stiffeners is that we drew a line on the tail cone stiffeners at
5/16th's from the edge and just drilled it when the skin was attached. It
seems to me we will still need to match drill a few hole where we didn't on
the stiffeners but since we already have 80% of them drilled using the spar
as a template it will be easier since we will have cleco's holding the skin
in place and will only need to drill a small handful of holes.. The emp
plans had things like me that but the wings do not. I had to read ahead to
make myself understand better. I wouldn't worry about it!!! It isn't a big
deal unless you drilled them all. If not I wouldn't sweat it! I am not going
to. May be a call to Vans if you cut all of em but if not just full em with
aluminum weld or leave em.Here is the aluminum weld I am using hopefully to
close out my fuel tanks instead of tank sealant. Not totally sure yet. Worst
case I can buy a couple of messed up ribs but I have been practicing. I am
getting good at fabricating with a low heat propane torch and aluminum rods:
http://newtechnologyproducts.net/login/main.asp check out the video, you'll
be hooked. I learned on the scrap vans sent. It works great!!! Who needs
rivets LOLOL,! Hopefully this will not start a pro seal war.I just like
trying new things : ) I may not do it if I don't get good enough but I have
filled holes. Watch the video and you will see what I mean. It is killer.
Fill holes or repair an engine block!
James
191
Priming the ribs, starting the rear spar assembly.
www.romeovictor.com <http://www.romeovictor.com/>
_____
From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@MyRV10.com]
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:27 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com; wvu@mail.ameritel.net
Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
Brackets
Yeah, both my spars had those rivets in place. The same rivets as all
the others along that lower row. I'm not crazy....I looked at it for
a while and knew for sure up from down and everything. I realized that
I was right when I saw that there was absolutely no place where I had
2 consecutive empty holes in the row of rivets. In order to put the
tie down bracket in, there'd be 2 open holes. They were easy to drill
out, and yesterday I attached the landing gear brackets and completed
the first section (13) of the wing manual. Now onto the ribs!
How about answering a quick question..... Those J-stiffners that you
clamp to the spar and match drill. The drawing wasn't the hottest
so in those areas that it says "don't match drill this area", I may
have drilled one or two rivet holes down the line into one or
two of those areas. Now that you see them placed, does this cause
any concern at all, or is it no problem at all? It looks like you
place them on the ribs, not anywhere near the spar where they
were match drilled. Must just have used the spar as a template
for the hole spacing, right?
Tim
Starting Section 14
dejavuan2 wrote:
> Tim,
> Similarly to James, I didn't have to drill any rivets out to install
> the tie-downs either. Is it this way on both of your spars?
> Anh
> #141
> Closing bottom skins on second wing
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "James McClow" <james@m...> wrote:
>
>>My spars didn't have the rivets there. I just match drilled like
>
> the plans
>
>>stated after making the one starter hole and have them permanently
>
> assembled
>
>>to the spar now. Here are the logs of mine:
>>http://mcclowsrv10.com/daily_update/wing_logs/wing_8_03_04.htm I
>
> seemed to
>
>>go smooth. I hate having to drill out rivets. It seems to come out
>
> funky
>
>>typically. For me anyway!
>>
>>James 191
>>Wing rib priming
>>www.mcclowsrv10.com <http://www.mcclowsrv10.com/>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:53 PM
>>To: RV10
>>Subject: [RV10] Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
>
> Brackets
>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
>
> page
>
>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the spars,
>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
>
> go,
>
>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
>
> drilling the
>
>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
>
> positions.
>
>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when installing
>
> the
>
>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
>
> point
>
>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
>>already?
>>Tim
>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129190qeg/M=298184.5285298.6392945.300117
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>>etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> click here
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> M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=
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Author: Tim Olson <tim@...> Time: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:23 am PDT Link
Actually, I was just reading a magazine with an article about the
cessna production line. It looked like a guy with a caulking tube
sealing tanks. Not sure what was in it, but I bet it was
proseal.
Tim
James McClow wrote:
>
> Yea, I could see that being an issue! A colleague and rv builder
> locally here was fabricating wing tanks with it and has been very
> successful but to go further I have received a few offline emails on
> the subject and considering I am going to be building my fuel tanks
> in the next two weeks or so I will surely use the proseal after some
> discussions I have had. I was hoping some of the folks that lurk the
> boards from an engineering stand point would have some information
> on it or should I say A& P folks from the group. Although I agree
> the wings will flex a bit at various stages of flight I have to
> wonder what cessna, Socata and some of the certifieds do in this
> case. Arent they welded tanks. This was my impression?.
>
> Anyway, I appreciate the feedback from all! It is always important
> and one of the reasons I like this open forum.
>
> Happy building,
>
> James
> 191
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Tim Olson <tim@M...> wrote:
>
>>Yeah, I wasn't too worried about the holes. Just haven't yet found
>>a reason to be.
>>
>>As for the aluminum welding. One thing to consider.... The
>
> ProSeal,
>
>>while getting stiffer with age, is still very plastic. The wings
>>are going to have a lot of flex in them. When I fly my Sundowner,
>>in turbulence you see the wings bounce a bit, and when I've seen
>>someone pound it on (not me....of course :) )The wings take a bit
>>of stress too (the gear is attached to the wing spar). I don't
>>know how flexible the aluminum weld stuff is, but you're going
>>to want something as plastic as can be, without being runny or
>
> flowing.
>
>>All it takes is a hairline crack in a weld, and you'll have fuel
>>seepage, and you definitely don't want fuel fumes in your wing
>>cavities.
>>
>>Not that I have a problem with the weld, it's just that for
>>trusting something to hold back an explosive liquid, I think I'll
>>stick with the time-proven product like proseal. I did help a
>
> friend
>
>>build his RV4 tanks. The stuff isn't fun at all, but I don't think
>>it's nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. You just
>
> have to
>
>>keep changing gloves, and wipe down your tools. I think myself,
>
> I'll
>
>>use electricians tap to wrap my rivet squeezer and rivet gun, so
>
> that
>
>>way I can just unwrap the tape when it's all done and have clean
>
> tools.
>
>>MEK cleans the stuff up well too...even the next day.
>>Tim
>>James McClow wrote:
>>>Hey Tim.
>>>
>>>Yea, the spar is the template for the stiffeners unless you went
>
> quick
>
>>>build. So yes. I didn't go quick build either. I had to reread
>
> that area a
>
>>>few times and thought at first how the heck are the ribs going
>
> to attach to
>
>>>this without the j-channel getting in the way? I was confused a
>
> bit..(ok
>
>>>Rick, Brian, easy.not that confused. LOLOLOL) I did the same
>
> thing and
>
>>>noticed that I drilled a couple of the holes to the side of
>
> where it said to
>
>>>stop at first but then stopped too. I didn't drill where the nut
>
> plates
>
>>>where at all but there is a hole on each end that is in close
>
> proximity to
>
>>>the holes we don't drill that I did. Oooops. I figure no big
>
> deal. The
>
>>>strength is spread out along the stiffeners and one or five
>
> extra holes
>
>>>wouldn't hurt.
>>>
>>> I read on into the plans to the end to understand what goes
>
> where better.
>
>>>The plans should probably have a small side note on that page
>
> telling us why
>
>>>not to drill and that the spar is used as a template for std
>
> wing builders.
>
>>>It is nice. I guess the only difference from these stiffeners
>
> and the tail
>
>>>cone stiffeners is that we drew a line on the tail cone
>
> stiffeners at
>
>>>5/16th's from the edge and just drilled it when the skin was
>
> attached. It
>
>>>seems to me we will still need to match drill a few hole where
>
> we didn't on
>
>>>the stiffeners but since we already have 80% of them drilled
>
> using the spar
>
>>>as a template it will be easier since we will have cleco's
>
> holding the skin
>
>>>in place and will only need to drill a small handful of holes..
>
> The emp
>
>>>plans had things like me that but the wings do not. I had to
>
> read ahead to
>
>>>make myself understand better. I wouldn't worry about it!!! It
>
> isn't a big
>
>>>deal unless you drilled them all. If not I wouldn't sweat it! I
>
> am not going
>
>>>to. May be a call to Vans if you cut all of em but if not just
>
> full em with
>
>>>aluminum weld or leave em.Here is the aluminum weld I am using
>
> hopefully to
>
>>>close out my fuel tanks instead of tank sealant. Not totally
>
> sure yet. Worst
>
>>>case I can buy a couple of messed up ribs but I have been
>
> practicing. I am
>
>>>getting good at fabricating with a low heat propane torch and
>
> aluminum rods:
>
>>>http://newtechnologyproducts.net/login/main.asp check out the
>
> video, you'll
>
>>>be hooked. I learned on the scrap vans sent. It works great!!!
>
> Who needs
>
>>>rivets LOLOL,! Hopefully this will not start a pro seal war.I
>
> just like
>
>>>trying new things : ) I may not do it if I don't get good enough
>
> but I have
>
>>>filled holes. Watch the video and you will see what I mean. It
>
> is killer.
>
>>>Fill holes or repair an engine block!
>>>
>>>James
>>>191
>>>Priming the ribs, starting the rear spar assembly.
>>>www.romeovictor.com <http://www.romeovictor.com/>
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>>From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
>>>Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:27 PM
>>>To: RV10@yahoogroups.com; wvu@m...
>>>Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Instructions or part minor issue with
>
> Tie-Down
>
>>>Brackets
>>>
>>>Yeah, both my spars had those rivets in place. The same rivets
>
> as all
>
>>>the others along that lower row. I'm not crazy....I looked at
>
> it for
>
>>>a while and knew for sure up from down and everything. I
>
> realized that
>
>>>I was right when I saw that there was absolutely no place where
>
> I had
>
>>>2 consecutive empty holes in the row of rivets. In order to put
>
> the
>
>>>tie down bracket in, there'd be 2 open holes. They were easy to
>
> drill
>
>>>out, and yesterday I attached the landing gear brackets and
>
> completed
>
>>>the first section (13) of the wing manual. Now onto the ribs!
>>>
>>>How about answering a quick question..... Those J-stiffners
>
> that you
>
>>>clamp to the spar and match drill. The drawing wasn't the
>
> hottest
>
>>>so in those areas that it says "don't match drill this area", I
>
> may
>
>>>have drilled one or two rivet holes down the line into one or
>>>two of those areas. Now that you see them placed, does this
>
> cause
>
>>>any concern at all, or is it no problem at all? It looks like
>
> you
>
>>>place them on the ribs, not anywhere near the spar where they
>>>were match drilled. Must just have used the spar as a template
>>>for the hole spacing, right?
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>Starting Section 14
>>>dejavuan2 wrote:
>>>>Tim,
>>>>Similarly to James, I didn't have to drill any rivets out to
>
> install
>
>>>>the tie-downs either. Is it this way on both of your spars?
>>>>Anh
>>>>#141
>>>>Closing bottom skins on second wing
>>>>--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "James McClow" <james@m...> wrote:
>>>>>My spars didn't have the rivets there. I just match drilled
>
> like
>
>>>>the plans
>>>>>stated after making the one starter hole and have them
>
> permanently
>
>>>>assembled
>>>>>to the spar now. Here are the logs of mine:
>>>>>http://mcclowsrv10.com/daily_update/wing_logs/wing_8_03_04.htm
>
> I
>
>>>>seemed to
>>>>>go smooth. I hate having to drill out rivets. It seems to come
>
> out
>
>>>>funky
>>>>>typically. For me anyway!
>>>>>
>>>>>James 191
>>>>>Wing rib priming
>>>>>www.mcclowsrv10.com <http://www.mcclowsrv10.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>>_____
>>>>>
>>>>>From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
>>>>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:53 PM
>>>>>To: RV10
>>>>>Subject: [RV10] Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
>>>>
>>>>Brackets
>>>>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
>>>>
>>>>page
>>>>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the
>
> spars,
>
>>>>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16
>
> rivets
>
>>>>go,
>>>>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
>>>>
>>>>drilling the
>>>>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
>>>>
>>>>positions.
>>>>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when
>
> installing
>
>>>>the
>>>>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought
>
> I'd
>
>>>>point
>>>>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the
>
> question.
>
>>>>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets
>
> installed
>
>>>>>already?
>>>>>Tim
>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>>>>ADVERTISEMENT
>>><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129190qeg/M=298184.5285298.6392945.300
>
> 117
>
>>>>6/D=gr
>>>oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1092062748/A=2164331/R=0/SIG=11eaelai9/*ht
>
> tp:
>
>>>>/www.n
>>>>>etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> click here
>>>>><http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
>>>>
>>>>M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=
>>>>>:HM/A=2164331/rand=512889260>
>>>>>
>>>>>_____
>>>>>
>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>* To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
>>>>>
>>>>>* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>>>RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>>><mailto:RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>>>>>
>>>>>* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
>
> of
>
>>>>Service
>>>>><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>>ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=1295056nb/M=298184.5285298.6392945.30011
> 76/D=gr
>
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1092213436/A=2164330/R=0/SIG=11eamf8g4/*http
> :/www.n
>
>>>etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183350> click here
>>><http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
>
> M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=
>
>>>:HM/A=2164330/rand=355230176>
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>* To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
>>>
>>>* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>><mailto:RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>>>
>>>* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>
> Service
>
>>><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
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Author: Rick Sked <heeder777@...> Time: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:30 pm PDT Link
Headlines read:
Seminole Florida man wounds family with sheet metal fastener. Allegedly the father of two utilized a new weapon...a "Cleco Gun, in a fit of rage when he could not locate the "Cleco Gun" he tried to use the ammuniton in a pair of pliers. The only fatality was a small 3 year old dog, the owner alleges the dog died "mysteriously" one night after falling ill....medical examiners found small, covering the torso of the poor beast which matched the pointy tip of the Cleco Gun Ammunition.
James McClow <james@mcclowsrv10.com> wrote:
LOL.I posted a photo of the new dress and skirt from when I lost my cleco
PLIERS here it is:
http://n204mc.com/ipw-web/gallery/wing_kit/wing_construction_8_08_04_045 I
was waiting for some funny remark to my comment to Tim on my too drilling
out to many holes inadvertently as he did. You beat me to it!
<SNIP>
From: Rick Sked
Sounds like you need a little cheese with your whine there James, I will
admit
to my cleco gun but I have a bum hand...not big and strong like you...and
those
puppies are sooo cute. Now get in that mini van of yours and get those kids
to
school Mom...I mean Dad. ;D
Macy's is having a Skirt sale this weekend BTW.
Rick
40185
<SNIP>
Keeping my eye on you and Brian from the cleco "GUN" incident!!!! LOL.Ok,
pliers and I got two new ones and back to work. Funny thing came out of it
though, when I tried to use regular pliers to continue setting my ribs on
the main wing spar I had cleco's shooting across the room since the pliers
are not set up to grasp cleco's properly. I mean shooting. They where
missiles. I wouldn't let the kids out here until I got the new cleco tools.
It was dangerous in here.
Happy Building,
James getting poorer and poorer by the rivet : >)~
I figure by the time I order and receive the fuse it will be spam all the
way in our house.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~
From: Rick Sked [mailto:heeder777@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:28 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [RV10] Re: Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
Brackets
Hey Jimmy Mac!!
What do you mean Rick & Brian???
Just cause right traffic for 21 left confuses you doesn't mean that your
building two left wings...or does it ;)
Rick
40185, riveting tailcone and
$7500.00 richer than you guys that have your wings.
James McClow <james@mcclowsrv10.com> wrote:
Hey Tim.
Yea, the spar is the template for the stiffeners unless you went quick
build. So yes. I didn't go quick build either. I had to reread that area a
few times and thought at first how the heck are the ribs going to attach to
this without the j-channel getting in the way? I was confused a bit..(ok
Rick, Brian, easy.not that confused. LOLOLOL) I did the same thing and
noticed that I drilled a couple of the holes to the side of where it said to
stop at first but then stopped too. I didn't drill where the nut plates
where at all but there is a hole on each end that is in close proximity to
the holes we don't drill that I did. Oooops. I figure no big deal. The
strength is spread out along the stiffeners and one or five extra holes
wouldn't hurt.
I read on into the plans to the end to understand what goes where better.
The plans should probably have a small side note on that page telling us why
not to drill and that the spar is used as a template for std wing builders.
It is nice. I guess the only difference from these stiffeners and the tail
cone stiffeners is that we drew a line on the tail cone stiffeners at
5/16th's from the edge and just drilled it when the skin was attached. It
seems to me we will still need to match drill a few hole where we didn't on
the stiffeners but since we already have 80% of them drilled using the spar
as a template it will be easier since we will have cleco's holding the skin
in place and will only need to drill a small handful of holes.. The emp
plans had things like me that but the wings do not. I had to read ahead to
make myself understand better. I wouldn't worry about it!!! It isn't a big
deal unless you drilled them all. If not I wouldn't sweat it! I am not going
to. May be a call to Vans if you cut all of em but if not just full em with
aluminum weld or leave em.Here is the aluminum weld I am using hopefully to
close out my fuel tanks instead of tank sealant. Not totally sure yet. Worst
case I can buy a couple of messed up ribs but I have been practicing. I am
getting good at fabricating with a low heat propane torch and aluminum rods:
http://newtechnologyproducts.net/login/main.asp check out the video, you'll
be hooked. I learned on the scrap vans sent. It works great!!! Who needs
rivets LOLOL,! Hopefully this will not start a pro seal war.I just like
trying new things : ) I may not do it if I don't get good enough but I have
filled holes. Watch the video and you will see what I mean. It is killer.
Fill holes or repair an engine block!
James
191
Priming the ribs, starting the rear spar assembly.
www.romeovictor.com <http://www.romeovictor.com/>
_____
From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@MyRV10.com]
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:27 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com; wvu@mail.ameritel.net
Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
Brackets
Yeah, both my spars had those rivets in place. The same rivets as all
the others along that lower row. I'm not crazy....I looked at it for
a while and knew for sure up from down and everything. I realized that
I was right when I saw that there was absolutely no place where I had
2 consecutive empty holes in the row of rivets. In order to put the
tie down bracket in, there'd be 2 open holes. They were easy to drill
out, and yesterday I attached the landing gear brackets and completed
the first section (13) of the wing manual. Now onto the ribs!
How about answering a quick question..... Those J-stiffners that you
clamp to the spar and match drill. The drawing wasn't the hottest
so in those areas that it says "don't match drill this area", I may
have drilled one or two rivet holes down the line into one or
two of those areas. Now that you see them placed, does this cause
any concern at all, or is it no problem at all? It looks like you
place them on the ribs, not anywhere near the spar where they
were match drilled. Must just have used the spar as a template
for the hole spacing, right?
Tim
Starting Section 14
dejavuan2 wrote:
> Tim,
> Similarly to James, I didn't have to drill any rivets out to install
> the tie-downs either. Is it this way on both of your spars?
> Anh
> #141
> Closing bottom skins on second wing
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "James McClow" <james@m...> wrote:
>
>>My spars didn't have the rivets there. I just match drilled like
>
> the plans
>
>>stated after making the one starter hole and have them permanently
>
> assembled
>
>>to the spar now. Here are the logs of mine:
>>http://mcclowsrv10.com/daily_update/wing_logs/wing_8_03_04.htm I
>
> seemed to
>
>>go smooth. I hate having to drill out rivets. It seems to come out
>
> funky
>
>>typically. For me anyway!
>>
>>James 191
>>Wing rib priming
>>www.mcclowsrv10.com <http://www.mcclowsrv10.com/>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: Tim Olson [mailto:tim@M...]
>>Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2004 7:53 PM
>>To: RV10
>>Subject: [RV10] Instructions or part minor issue with Tie-Down
>
> Brackets
>>Found a small error in the plans or parts for the wing kit. On
>
> page
>
>>13-4 where you make the tie-down brackets and put them on the spars,
>>they show two available holes in the spar where large 3/16 rivets
>
> go,
>
>>and say to use the existing holes in the spar as guides for
>
> drilling the
>
>>tie-down bracket. Problem is, my spar has rivets in those
>
> positions.
>
>>Looks like I can just drill the rivets out, because when installing
>
> the
>
>>tie-down bracket you're using AN3 bolts anyway. Just thought I'd
>
> point
>
>>that out in case someone else came across it and had the question.
>>Anyone else get their spars that didn't have those rivets installed
>>already?
>>Tim
>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129190qeg/M=298184.5285298.6392945.300117
> 6/D=gr
>
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> /www.n
>
>>etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183351> click here
>><http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
>
> M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S=
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>> _____
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>>
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Author: "William" <wcurtis@...> Time: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm PDT Link
---Tim Olson <tim@M...> wrote:
> Actually, I was just reading a magazine with an article about the
> cessna production line. It looked like a guy with a caulking tube
> sealing tanks. Not sure what was in it, but I bet it was
> proseal.
>
> Tim
It depends which Cessna. My '75 Cardinal has "wet wings" sealed with
Pro Seal (or it's equivalent) like the RV-10. Older 182's had rubber
bladders. I believe all new Cessna's have wet wings sealed with
ProSeal.
You will find that in most aircraft if the fuel tank is part of the
wing, it is either "wet" or bladder (or fiberglass bladder
replacement). Welded tanks are usually found when the tanks are part
of some other structure such as the fuselage.
William Curtis
RV-10 #40237 (Tailcone)
'75 177RG (AOG-waiting on new engine)
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Author: "dejavuan2" <wvu@...> Time: Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:28 pm PDT Link
Tim,
I'm a little slow responding to this, sorry. James and others have
read the instructions well. I would add just one thing. The
portions of the stiffeners that you don't match-drill using the spar
as a template coincide with where the access panels will be. There
will be holes there but you'll use the skins as a template later. I
would leave those holes alone for now. If you must, hold the
stiffener against the appropriate skin and see where the oops-holes
fall in relation to the holes on the skin. If there's no
inteference, this should set you mind at ease, go work on something
else and plan to dimple the oops-holes and rivet them later.
Clear as mud?
Anh
#141
Wings complete (less access panels and controls)
> How about answering a quick question..... Those J-stiffners that
you
> clamp to the spar and match drill. The drawing wasn't the hottest
> so in those areas that it says "don't match drill this area", I may
> have drilled one or two rivet holes down the line into one or
> two of those areas. Now that you see them placed, does this cause
> any concern at all, or is it no problem at all? It looks like you
> place them on the ribs, not anywhere near the spar where they
> were match drilled. Must just have used the spar as a template
> for the hole spacing, right?
>
> Tim
> Starting Section 14
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