Author: "David McNeill" <dlm34077@...> Time: Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:57 pm PDT Link
I again confirmed with Dynon what I consider to be a serious flaw with the Dynon EFIS. The interruption of static or pitot causes attitude errors . Apparently loss of air (pitot/static covered or iced) is interpreted as airspeed change and introduces acceleration errors into the attitude display. Flight in IMC coupled with iced pitot could cause real problems.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: "dejavuan2" <wvu@...> Time: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:20 pm PDT Link
David,
Appreciate your research and to share with this group...
Not being too familiar with the guts of the Dynon EFIS (or other
EFIS, or the old steam ASI) I have trouble understanding how this is
different than the case of the old steam ASI. Do you not have
erroneous indication on the ASI when pitot/static are not healthy,
thus faced with the same predicament during IMC? What exactly on
the attitude display that's in error?
Anh
#141, Maryland
Wings Complete (less control tubes)
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "David McNeill" <dlm34077@c...> wrote:
> I again confirmed with Dynon what I consider to be a serious flaw
with the Dynon EFIS. The interruption of static or pitot causes
attitude errors . Apparently loss of air (pitot/static covered or
iced) is interpreted as airspeed change and introduces acceleration
errors into the attitude display. Flight in IMC coupled with iced
pitot could cause real problems.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: "townsetm" <yooper@...> Time: Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:00 pm PDT Link
Well, a "conventional" ADI just depends on your vacuum pump to keep
pumping, or good power if it's an electrical ADI, to keep the
mechanical gyros spinning. Other than that, it's fairly self-
contained.
Solid-state gyros can be had with incredible tolerances and
accuracies. Unfortunately, they cost as much as your house and
therefore are only found on 777s and F-22s.
A lot of EFIS makers for GA use more inexpensive electronic gyros and
accelerometers, but to keep these guys within spec, they rely on some
other information to help the computer do the math, such as airspeed,
GPS, etc. For instance, if your airspeed is increasing, that can
confirm with the gyro that you are accelerating.
I know some EFIS systems use the "extra" data like airspeed only as a
supplement to the gyros, and block it when it doesn't jive. It
sounds like from the other description that Dynon must be dependent
on it full-time.
TDT
40025
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "dejavuan2" <wvu@m...> wrote:
> David,
> Appreciate your research and to share with this group...
> Not being too familiar with the guts of the Dynon EFIS (or other
> EFIS, or the old steam ASI) I have trouble understanding how this
is
> different than the case of the old steam ASI. Do you not have
> erroneous indication on the ASI when pitot/static are not healthy,
> thus faced with the same predicament during IMC? What exactly on
> the attitude display that's in error?
> Anh
> #141, Maryland
> Wings Complete (less control tubes)
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "David McNeill" <dlm34077@c...> wrote:
> > I again confirmed with Dynon what I consider to be a serious flaw
> with the Dynon EFIS. The interruption of static or pitot causes
> attitude errors . Apparently loss of air (pitot/static covered or
> iced) is interpreted as airspeed change and introduces acceleration
> errors into the attitude display. Flight in IMC coupled with iced
> pitot could cause real problems.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: "jaybrinkmeyer" <jaybrinkmeyer@...> Time: Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:41 am PDT Link
Much better hearing about problems like this before experiencing it
first-hand or spending buck$!
Thanks for posting. I'm looking forward to Dynon's public response
to these concerns as this issue seems to be a show stopper for their
business...
Jay
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "townsetm" <yooper@a...> wrote:
>
> Well, a "conventional" ADI just depends on your vacuum pump to
keep
> pumping, or good power if it's an electrical ADI, to keep the
> mechanical gyros spinning. Other than that, it's fairly self-
> contained.
>
> Solid-state gyros can be had with incredible tolerances and
> accuracies. Unfortunately, they cost as much as your house and
> therefore are only found on 777s and F-22s.
>
> A lot of EFIS makers for GA use more inexpensive electronic gyros
and
> accelerometers, but to keep these guys within spec, they rely on
some
> other information to help the computer do the math, such as
airspeed,
> GPS, etc. For instance, if your airspeed is increasing, that can
> confirm with the gyro that you are accelerating.
>
> I know some EFIS systems use the "extra" data like airspeed only
as a
> supplement to the gyros, and block it when it doesn't jive. It
> sounds like from the other description that Dynon must be
dependent
> on it full-time.
>
> TDT
> 40025
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "dejavuan2" <wvu@m...> wrote:
> > David,
> > Appreciate your research and to share with this group...
> > Not being too familiar with the guts of the Dynon EFIS (or other
> > EFIS, or the old steam ASI) I have trouble understanding how
this
> is
> > different than the case of the old steam ASI. Do you not have
> > erroneous indication on the ASI when pitot/static are not
healthy,
> > thus faced with the same predicament during IMC? What exactly
on
> > the attitude display that's in error?
> > Anh
> > #141, Maryland
> > Wings Complete (less control tubes)
> >
> > --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "David McNeill" <dlm34077@c...>
wrote:
> > > I again confirmed with Dynon what I consider to be a serious
flaw
> > with the Dynon EFIS. The interruption of static or pitot causes
> > attitude errors . Apparently loss of air (pitot/static covered
or
> > iced) is interpreted as airspeed change and introduces
acceleration
> > errors into the attitude display. Flight in IMC coupled with
iced
> > pitot could cause real problems.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: "Dave Smith" <dave@...> Time: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:39 am PDT Link
Jay,
I think maybe this is one of the big reasons that most of the folks I've
talked love it for VFR, but refuse to even think about it for IFR, except as
perhaps a backup instrument.
------------------------------------------
Dave Smith
http://www.rv10project.net <http://www.rv10project.net/
_____
From: jaybrinkmeyer [mailto:jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 7:59 AM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV10] Re: Dynon EFIS
Much better hearing about problems like this before experiencing it
first-hand or spending buck$!
Thanks for posting. I'm looking forward to Dynon's public response
to these concerns as this issue seems to be a show stopper for their
business...
Jay
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "townsetm" <yooper@a...> wrote:
>
> Well, a "conventional" ADI just depends on your vacuum pump to
keep
> pumping, or good power if it's an electrical ADI, to keep the
> mechanical gyros spinning. Other than that, it's fairly self-
> contained.
>
> Solid-state gyros can be had with incredible tolerances and
> accuracies. Unfortunately, they cost as much as your house and
> therefore are only found on 777s and F-22s.
>
> A lot of EFIS makers for GA use more inexpensive electronic gyros
and
> accelerometers, but to keep these guys within spec, they rely on
some
> other information to help the computer do the math, such as
airspeed,
> GPS, etc. For instance, if your airspeed is increasing, that can
> confirm with the gyro that you are accelerating.
>
> I know some EFIS systems use the "extra" data like airspeed only
as a
> supplement to the gyros, and block it when it doesn't jive. It
> sounds like from the other description that Dynon must be
dependent
> on it full-time.
>
> TDT
> 40025
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "dejavuan2" <wvu@m...> wrote:
> > David,
> > Appreciate your research and to share with this group...
> > Not being too familiar with the guts of the Dynon EFIS (or other
> > EFIS, or the old steam ASI) I have trouble understanding how
this
> is
> > different than the case of the old steam ASI. Do you not have
> > erroneous indication on the ASI when pitot/static are not
healthy,
> > thus faced with the same predicament during IMC? What exactly
on
> > the attitude display that's in error?
> > Anh
> > #141, Maryland
> > Wings Complete (less control tubes)
> >
> > --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "David McNeill" <dlm34077@c...>
wrote:
> > > I again confirmed with Dynon what I consider to be a serious
flaw
> > with the Dynon EFIS. The interruption of static or pitot causes
> > attitude errors . Apparently loss of air (pitot/static covered
or
> > iced) is interpreted as airspeed change and introduces
acceleration
> > errors into the attitude display. Flight in IMC coupled with
iced
> > pitot could cause real problems.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@...> Time: Wed Sep 1, 2004 4:23 am PDT Link
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Smith" <dave@r...> wrote:
> Jay,
>
> I think maybe this is one of the big reasons that most of the folks
I've
> talked love it for VFR, but refuse to even think about it for IFR,
except as
> perhaps a backup instrument.
>
> ------------------------------------------
> Dave Smith
> http://www.rv10project.net <http://www.rv10project.net/
Dave and others, I believe if you will moniter other RV lists you
will find many, many RV fliers do in fact feel very comfortable
flying IFR with the Dynon. Dynon has a heated pitot tube to go along
with the unit. Blue Mountain and Grand Rapids use GPS as a cross
referece, so yes another unput has to be present for the new EFIS's.
I am assuming most on this list will consider some type of
autopilot. If you are in the soup and you lose your pitot or GPS
input for an entended time and you lose reliability of your EFIS, you
just might have to revert to your IFR partial panel training, click
on the autopilot, moniter airspeed, altimeter, VSI and any other
tendency indicating intrument you have and proceed with your plan.
Not a show stopper.
After flying behind the Dynon on several occasions, I feel entirely
comfortable with it's design, functions and reliability.
Dana Overall
RV-7, "Black Magic"
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