Author: "Nick Leonard" <Nick@...> Time: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:00 pm PDT Link
Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit since I'm still
working on the wings, but has anybody given any thought as to where
to locate a second battery? I'm planning an all glass panel with
one alternator and two batteries (endurance bus). Van's has no
recommendation other than to watch your W&B (duh!). It will probably
be the same size as the first battery for a variety of reasons
including annual rotation, endurance, etc. There seems to be some
need for weight in the back when flying light (most of the time) but
I assume this becomes a problem when fully loaded. Since Van's
hasn't shared any W&B figures from the prototype, it's hard to know
what to expect.
Has anyone else given this any thought?
Nick `0015
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: Tim Olson <tim@...> Time: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:36 pm PDT Link
I've been thinking about this for a while now, as I'm also doing a glass
panel (with some other backup instruments too). I asked Van's this
question at OSH and got the feeling that they thought I was nuts...
not just for wanting 2 batteries, but for wanting to build an IFR
plane in the first place. They're right though, I am nuts, so I guess
I really can't complain. :)
I got the privilege of seeing Randy 006's fuselage yesterday, and I flew
the RV10, so I think I know what I'm going to do now. My current plan
is to add one or two battery packs, under the baggage area floor, on
nice battery trays that I make from scraps. I'm going to use small
12V , 10 or 12 Ah Sealed Gel Lead Acid batteries, and they'll only be
for running critical instruments for backup. One will back up my
lightspeed ignition if I decide to go dual lightspeed. One will back
up my GPS Com, and Flat Panel attitude indicator. These batteries
should last plenty long to get the plane to the ground (controlled).
I'll run a charging circuit that will keep them charged when the
alternator is running, but not allow them to feed the aircraft circuits
unless I flip a switch to "activate" them.
When flying Van's RV10, one thing disappointed me a little. I fly a
Sundowner, and am a member of the "Musketeer" list as well. They're
always talked about as being very nose-heavy, and people just can't get
over the fact that you're at forward CG with 2 pilots and full fuel.
Well, it's the same deal with the -10. The thing that surprised me is
that I can fly the Beech and even though I may not be able to flare
too much more nose high than a few degrees, I can easily trim the plane
for a nice 70Kt approach, hands off. With Tom and I in the RV10,
we flew about 80-85mph approach, and dialed in FULL nose up trim,
and that wasn't enough. I still had to maintain backpressure on the
stick to keep that airspeed. I think flying an approach it would be
fine, because you'd be flying faster, but to trim for those actual
lower short final speeds, it runs out of trim....not elevator, just
trim. Oh, and that was with 50 lbs of lead shot in the baggage area, if
I forgot to mention that.
So, that considered, I think I have NO problem with cutting in some
access plates under the baggage floor, and mounting some of those small
batteries between the ribs. Perhaps I'll even mount them further aft,
just for CG, and make trays off to the sides of the tailcone, but
right now I'm just leaning towards under the floor if I can find proper
sized batteries to do it nicely.
Sorry so long. You can just call me Tim "James" Olson. :)
Tim
Nick Leonard wrote:
> Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit since I'm still
> working on the wings, but has anybody given any thought as to where
> to locate a second battery? I'm planning an all glass panel with
> one alternator and two batteries (endurance bus). Van's has no
> recommendation other than to watch your W&B (duh!). It will probably
> be the same size as the first battery for a variety of reasons
> including annual rotation, endurance, etc. There seems to be some
> need for weight in the back when flying light (most of the time) but
> I assume this becomes a problem when fully loaded. Since Van's
> hasn't shared any W&B figures from the prototype, it's hard to know
> what to expect.
>
> Has anyone else given this any thought?
>
> Nick `0015
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@...> Time: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:24 pm PDT Link
>Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit since I'm still
>working on the wings, but has anybody given any thought as to where
>to locate a second battery? I'm planning an all glass panel with
>one alternator and two batteries (endurance bus). Van's has no
>recommendation other than to watch your W&B (duh!). It will probably
>be the same size as the first battery for a variety of reasons
>including annual rotation, endurance, etc. There seems to be some
>need for weight in the back when flying light (most of the time) but
>I assume this becomes a problem when fully loaded. Since Van's
>hasn't shared any W&B figures from the prototype, it's hard to know
>what to expect.
>
>Has anyone else given this any thought?
>
>Nick `0015
The proto aircraft as I understand it, is nose heavy while solo or with two
up front and no pax. This is to be expected so you can actually use those
back seats for live humans. A backup battery does NOT have to be the same
boat anchor Concorde POS commonly thrust upon homebuilders as being the only
viable source of electron storage. I've used Walmart sealed lead acid lawn
tractor batteries in my RV8 for three years now with great success. They're
a whopping $30 or so, smaller, lighter, and there is a ready source of
spares just about anywhere in the free world. (Subtle jab at Walmart's
global domination ploy.)
I would mount this kind of battery right on the firewall, and a duplicate
back on the tray. Total weight would be on par with a Concorde, maybe few
pounds heavier. The Odyssey battery is also an exceptional battery, although
more pricey. Will save some pounds and allow more flexibility as to where
you put it in the airplane. I'm presently planning on an IO-540 with MT
prop. The lighter prop (vs. Hartzell metal) might allow me to firewall
mount a Wally world battery just like on my RV8. Makes for super easy
servicing and if you use a cowling heater for wintertime ops, the battery
stays nice and toasty along with the engine.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@...> Time: Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:29 am PDT Link
Nick,
I modified the normal battery box aria a little and have two of the Odyssey
battery there.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Leonard [mailto:Nick@NLeonard.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 11:46 AM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV10] Second battery location
Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit since I'm still working on
the wings, but has anybody given any thought as to where to locate a second
battery? I'm planning an all glass panel with one alternator and two
batteries (endurance bus). Van's has no recommendation other than to watch
your W&B (duh!). It will probably be the same size as the first battery for
a variety of reasons including annual rotation, endurance, etc. There seems
to be some need for weight in the back when flying light (most of the time)
but I assume this becomes a problem when fully loaded. Since Van's hasn't
shared any W&B figures from the prototype, it's hard to know what to expect.
Has anyone else given this any thought?
Nick `0015
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make
a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@...> Time: Wed Aug 25, 2004 3:29 am PDT Link
>
>I got the privilege of seeing Randy 006's fuselage yesterday, and I flew
>the RV10, so I think I know what I'm going to do now. My current plan
>is to add one or two battery packs, under the baggage area floor, on
>nice battery trays that I make from scraps. I'm going to use small
>12V , 10 or 12 Ah Sealed Gel Lead Acid batteries, and they'll only be
>for running critical instruments for backup. One will back up my
>lightspeed ignition if I decide to go dual lightspeed. One will back
>up my GPS Com, and Flat Panel attitude indicator. These batteries
>should last plenty long to get the plane to the ground (controlled).
>I'll run a charging circuit that will keep them charged when the
>alternator is running, but not allow them to feed the aircraft circuits
>unless I flip a switch to "activate" them.
>
>When flying Van's RV10, one thing disappointed me a little. I fly a
>Sundowner, and am a member of the "Musketeer" list as well. They're
>always talked about as being very nose-heavy, and people just can't get
>over the fact that you're at forward CG with 2 pilots and full fuel.
>Well, it's the same deal with the -10. The thing that surprised me is
>that I can fly the Beech and even though I may not be able to flare
>too much more nose high than a few degrees, I can easily trim the plane
>for a nice 70Kt approach, hands off. With Tom and I in the RV10,
>we flew about 80-85mph approach, and dialed in FULL nose up trim,
it runs out of trim....not elevator, just
>trim. Oh, and that was with 50 lbs of lead shot in the baggage area, if
>I forgot to mention that.
>
>So, that considered, I think I have NO problem with cutting in some
>access plates under the baggage floor, and mounting some of those small
>batteries between the ribs. Perhaps I'll even mount them further aft,
>just for CG, and make trays off to the sides of the tailcone, but
>right now I'm just leaning towards under the floor if I can find proper
>sized batteries to do it nicely.
>
>Sorry so long. You can just call me Tim "James" Olson. :)
>Tim
Heh....Tim James Olson. Sounds good. :)
Any way to work the wt/bal with USEFUL weight is fine. My -8 needs ballast
in the baggage hold to allow me to trim it to 75mph while solo. Without it,
I have to hold the nose up manually after the trim runs out. So, in this
way, it's just like my -8. No problemo. I always carry a tool kit, some
oil, tie downs, canopy cover and some survival gear. I simply move it where
it's needed to suit the pax loading. With a bubba in the back seat, it goes
in the forward hold. While solo, it resides on the shelf to get the most
from the arm vs. down on the floor immediately behind the rear seat back.
Batteries, tools, camping gear, whatever. You can make the airplane balance
any way you want to suit your typical mission. When I flew the -10, it was
Ken Kreuger and I up front, and Laird "Birdstrike" Owens in the back. The
plane trimmed out perfectly down final. Like riding a rail.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "James McClow" <james@...> Time: Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:54 pm PDT Link
LOL.love the new name. I read the post yesterday where it began. Your
catching on Tim. Write the book.it's all good! However, you won't catch up
with me or join the club until you start to forget the proper grammar, And
of course it needs to be riddled with typos, I mean typoes! I am the leading
expert on these items. The typoeee master if you will!
See ya! LOL |: >)~
James
191
_____
From: Brian Denk [mailto:akroguy@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:52 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RV10] Second battery location
>I got the privilege of seeing Randy 006's fuselage yesterday, and I flew
>the RV10, so I think I know what I'm going to do now. My current plan
>is to add one or two battery packs, under the baggage area floor, on
>nice battery trays that I make from scraps. I'm going to use small
>12V , 10 or 12 Ah Sealed Gel Lead Acid batteries, and they'll only be
>for running critical instruments for backup. One will back up my
>lightspeed ignition if I decide to go dual lightspeed. One will back
>up my GPS Com, and Flat Panel attitude indicator. These batteries
>should last plenty long to get the plane to the ground (controlled).
>I'll run a charging circuit that will keep them charged when the
>alternator is running, but not allow them to feed the aircraft circuits
>unless I flip a switch to "activate" them.
>
>When flying Van's RV10, one thing disappointed me a little. I fly a
>Sundowner, and am a member of the "Musketeer" list as well. They're
>always talked about as being very nose-heavy, and people just can't get
>over the fact that you're at forward CG with 2 pilots and full fuel.
>Well, it's the same deal with the -10. The thing that surprised me is
>that I can fly the Beech and even though I may not be able to flare
>too much more nose high than a few degrees, I can easily trim the plane
>for a nice 70Kt approach, hands off. With Tom and I in the RV10,
>we flew about 80-85mph approach, and dialed in FULL nose up trim,
it runs out of trim....not elevator, just
>trim. Oh, and that was with 50 lbs of lead shot in the baggage area, if
>I forgot to mention that.
>
>So, that considered, I think I have NO problem with cutting in some
>access plates under the baggage floor, and mounting some of those small
>batteries between the ribs. Perhaps I'll even mount them further aft,
>just for CG, and make trays off to the sides of the tailcone, but
>right now I'm just leaning towards under the floor if I can find proper
>sized batteries to do it nicely.
>
>Sorry so long. You can just call me Tim "James" Olson. :)
>Tim
Heh....Tim James Olson. Sounds good. :)
Any way to work the wt/bal with USEFUL weight is fine. My -8 needs ballast
in the baggage hold to allow me to trim it to 75mph while solo. Without it,
I have to hold the nose up manually after the trim runs out. So, in this
way, it's just like my -8. No problemo. I always carry a tool kit, some
oil, tie downs, canopy cover and some survival gear. I simply move it where
it's needed to suit the pax loading. With a bubba in the back seat, it goes
in the forward hold. While solo, it resides on the shelf to get the most
from the arm vs. down on the floor immediately behind the rear seat back.
Batteries, tools, camping gear, whatever. You can make the airplane balance
any way you want to suit your typical mission. When I flew the -10, it was
Ken Kreuger and I up front, and Laird "Birdstrike" Owens in the back. The
plane trimmed out perfectly down final. Like riding a rail.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129k23on6/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1093516189/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=529536920>
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "dlm34077" <dlm34077@...> Time: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:40 am PDT Link
You might consider mounting the starting battery i.e. Odessey 680 on
the firewall and a second larger (Odessey 925) battery at the Van's
preferred location. I am currently flying an all electric Glastar
with single alternator and dual batteries. I mounted the 680 on the
firewall and the run to the starter is 24 inches of 02 cable. The
second battery is a Concorde RG35 in the rear for weight and balance
purposes and is size 08 wire because it is not useable for starting.
The plan for my -10 is 680 firewall and 925 aft. I may run an 02
cable from the rear to the starter relay so that in a pinch I can
use eithor battery or both to start. There will be three busses all
switchable separatly and yet all connectable via guarded switchs
and/or diodes. I like the way the Glastar system works but the -10
will have dual EFISs instead of individual instruments. Except for a
breaker (eithor pullable or togglable) for every appliance I expect
to make only about six cutouts in the panel, Two EFISs, Trutrak AP,
SL30, SL70, Strikefinder, Trim switchs and indicators.
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "dlm34077" <dlm34077@...> Time: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:41 am PDT Link
You might consider mounting the starting battery i.e. Odessey 680 on
the firewall and a second larger (Odessey 925) battery at the Van's
preferred location. I am currently flying an all electric Glastar
with single alternator and dual batteries. I mounted the 680 on the
firewall and the run to the starter is 24 inches of 02 cable. The
second battery is a Concorde RG35 in the rear for weight and balance
purposes and is size 08 wire because it is not useable for starting.
The plan for my -10 is 680 firewall and 925 aft. I may run an 02
cable from the rear to the starter relay so that in a pinch I can
use eithor battery or both to start. There will be three busses all
switchable separatly and yet all connectable via guarded switchs
and/or diodes. I like the way the Glastar system works but the -10
will have dual EFISs instead of individual instruments. Except for a
breaker (eithor pullable or togglable) for every appliance I expect
to make only about six cutouts in the panel, Two EFISs, Trutrak AP,
SL30, SL70, Strikefinder, Trim switchs and indicators.
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/