Author: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@...> Time: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:42 am PST Link
Maybe this has come up earlier, before my time? Have drivers of other RVs on this list experienced "oil canning"?
Roger Standley
#40291
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Author: n213rv@... Time: Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:07 am PST Link
Yes, on the bottom of my RV-4 fuse.
Mike Kraus
N223RV - RV-4 Flying
N213RV - RV-10 - Working on wings......
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Author: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@...> Time: Sat Jan 1, 2005 12:34 pm PST Link
Mike, thanks for responding. Was there anything you could do about it on the RV-4? Do you anticipate oil canning in the RV-10?
Roger Standley
#40291
----- Original Message -----
From: n213rv@aol.com<mailto:n213rv@aol.com>
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RV10@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [RV10] Oil Canning
Yes, on the bottom of my RV-4 fuse.
Mike Kraus
N223RV - RV-4 Flying
N213RV - RV-10 - Working on wings......
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Author: n213rv@... Time: Sat Jan 1, 2005 11:39 pm PST Link
The oil canning on my RV-4 is on the bottom of the fuse, just aft of the
rear seat. It was caused because I probably did not use thick enough shims
between the bulkheads and the skins (a common practice on the early RV's to get
the skins to lay flat). My RV-4 did not have one pre-drilled hole in the ribs
or skin, I had to jig and drill everything myself.
I would imagine with all the match drilled components there would be much
less chance of any oil canning, but I guess anything is possible.....
Mike Kraus
N223RV - RV-4 Flying
N213RV - RV-10 - Working on wings......
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Author: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@...> Time: Sun Jan 2, 2005 6:45 am PST Link
>The oil canning on my RV-4 is on the bottom of the fuse, just aft of the
>rear seat. It was caused because I probably did not use thick enough shims
>between the bulkheads and the skins (a common practice on the early RV's to
>get
>the skins to lay flat). My RV-4 did not have one pre-drilled hole in the
>ribs
>or skin, I had to jig and drill everything myself.
>
>I would imagine with all the match drilled components there would be much
>less chance of any oil canning, but I guess anything is possible.....
>
>Mike Kraus
>N223RV - RV-4 Flying
>N213RV - RV-10 - Working on wings......
I get this on my RV8 as well. Some builders have prosealed a couple of
angles along the skin to stiffen up the area.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
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Author: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@...> Time: Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:59 pm PST Link
I have been talking with some local A&Ps about this subject. We were looking at a C172 , feeling for and finding some flex in the skins. They were saying that a little flex may be OK. Then, moving the horizontal stab up and down at the tip like you might do during a preflight, one of the areas where we noticed a little flex did "oil can". We don't notice oil canning during normal flight in this 172, however, it oil cans nicely during a stall. I hope this subject isn't going to come up again as soon as some builder RV-10s are flying. Is there a way to tell if an area may "oil can"? Having completed the VS, rudder and EL and pressing on the surfaces, I find that a little flexing and "oil canning?" can occur. Could this be due to the slight stretching of the skins during riveting? Am I just being paranoid or should we be looking at some reinforcements. Maybe my riveting technique needs tweaking? This kit lines up and goes together so well it is hard not to believe all is well!
Roger Standley
#40291 - working on elevators
----- Original Message -----
From: n213rv@aol.com<mailto:n213rv@aol.com>
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RV10@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [RV10] Oil Canning
The oil canning on my RV-4 is on the bottom of the fuse, just aft of the
rear seat. It was caused because I probably did not use thick enough shims
between the bulkheads and the skins (a common practice on the early RV's to get
the skins to lay flat). My RV-4 did not have one pre-drilled hole in the ribs
or skin, I had to jig and drill everything myself.
I would imagine with all the match drilled components there would be much
less chance of any oil canning, but I guess anything is possible.....
Mike Kraus
N223RV - RV-4 Flying
N213RV - RV-10 - Working on wings......
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: Tim Olson <tim@...> Time: Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:38 pm PST Link
I actually have an area to reinforce because I'm sure it'll oil-can.
The access area for the stall-warning access for some reason didn't
stay nice and flat and tight between ribs where that hole was cut,
and now when you push in and out on the rim around the backing plate,
it can pop in and out. I don't know why it decided to do this
in that spot, but I've decided that it has to be fixed, so I'm going
to buy some aluminum angle and reinforce the skins with a strip or
two in that area. Probably will just make it use the existing holes
of the nutplates for the access panel.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Tim@MyRV10.com
Wing Kit - Almost Complete
QB Fuse - Coming soon!
'77 Sundowner - Flying
Roger Standley wrote:
>
> I have been talking with some local A&Ps about this subject. We were
> looking at a C172 , feeling for and finding some flex in the skins.
> They were saying that a little flex may be OK. Then, moving the
> horizontal stab up and down at the tip like you might do during a
> preflight, one of the areas where we noticed a little flex did "oil
> can". We don't notice oil canning during normal flight in this 172,
> however, it oil cans nicely during a stall. I hope this subject isn't
> going to come up again as soon as some builder RV-10s are flying. Is
> there a way to tell if an area may "oil can"? Having completed the
> VS, rudder and EL and pressing on the surfaces, I find that a little
> flexing and "oil canning?" can occur. Could this be due to the slight
> stretching of the skins during riveting? Am I just being paranoid or
> should we be looking at some reinforcements. Maybe my riveting
> technique needs tweaking? This kit lines up and goes together so well
> it is hard not to believe all is well!
>
> Roger Standley #40291 - working on elevators ----- Original Message
> ----- From: n213rv@aol.com<mailto:n213rv@aol.com> To:
> RV10@yahoogroups.com<mailto:RV10@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday,
> January 01, 2005 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [RV10] Oil Canning
> The oil canning on my RV-4 is on the bottom of the fuse, just aft of
> the rear seat. It was caused because I probably did not use thick
> enough shims between the bulkheads and the skins (a common practice
> on the early RV's to get the skins to lay flat). My RV-4 did not
> have one pre-drilled hole in the ribs or skin, I had to jig and
> drill everything myself.
>
> I would imagine with all the match drilled components there would be
> much less chance of any oil canning, but I guess anything is
> possible.....
>
> Mike Kraus N223RV - RV-4 Flying N213RV - RV-10 - Working on
> wings......
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Author: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@...> Time: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:53 am PST Link
>I actually have an area to reinforce because I'm sure it'll oil-can.
>The access area for the stall-warning access for some reason didn't
>stay nice and flat and tight between ribs where that hole was cut,
>and now when you push in and out on the rim around the backing plate,
>it can pop in and out. I don't know why it decided to do this
>in that spot, but I've decided that it has to be fixed, so I'm going
>to buy some aluminum angle and reinforce the skins with a strip or
>two in that area. Probably will just make it use the existing holes
>of the nutplates for the access panel.
>--
>Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
>Tim@MyRV10.com
>Wing Kit - Almost Complete
>QB Fuse - Coming soon!
>'77 Sundowner - Flying
You could just proseal the angles on. This was done by an RV8 builder or
two on the belly skins aft of the rear seat. My airplane oil cans o'plenty
down there. Just changing temperature in the shop will have an impact on
the skins. They might be nice and tight when it's cold then get the plane
out on the ramp someday in 90 degree heat and everything puffs out like the
airframe has been pumped with helium.
These are metal airframes. They WILL oil can from time to time. Is it
worth worrying about? NO. It's the way these wonderful machines flex their
muscles to keep limbered up, ready to pounce on the next spam can or plastic
millionaire machine.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
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Author: "William Curtis" <wcurtis@...> Time: Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:41 am PST Link
I have the question out to Vans, but has anyone thought of replacing
the separate inboard .032" and outboard .025" tops skins with a
single sheet of 12 foot .032" 2024-T3?
I hung the outer wings skins on, and I know it will be tighter when
it is riveted, but I did not like the wavy look out the outer
panels. In the April 2004 edition of EAA Sport Aviation, there is a
picture of an RV-10 on page 28 with the wing rib lines clearly
visible.
I moved on to building the leading edges and fuel tanks while I
considered this. The size required would be 27.5" X 144". I can get
144 inch lengths of 2024-T3 from local vendors, even Aircraft spruce
sells it in 12 X 4 foot lengths for $161, but the shipping cost would
probably be prohibitive. By my calculations, this would only add an
additional 1.8 pounds per side but it would look much better,
eliminate the seams, and provide added strength to the wing. I would
clamp the existing sheets on top of the new and match drill the holes
into the new sheet. I may revert to using the provided skins but
just a consideration.
William
40237
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Author: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@...> Time: Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:53 am PST Link
You can always bond stiffeners to the skins on the inside of the wing. I
would use a silicone of some sort myself. this is exactly what I have done
on my 8 fuse floor, behind the baggage compartment..
At 04:46 PM 1/24/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>I have the question out to Vans, but has anyone thought of replacing
>the separate inboard .032" and outboard .025" tops skins with a
>single sheet of 12 foot .032" 2024-T3?
>
>I hung the outer wings skins on, and I know it will be tighter when
>it is riveted, but I did not like the wavy look out the outer
>panels. In the April 2004 edition of EAA Sport Aviation, there is a
>picture of an RV-10 on page 28 with the wing rib lines clearly
>visible.
>
>I moved on to building the leading edges and fuel tanks while I
>considered this. The size required would be 27.5" X 144". I can get
>144 inch lengths of 2024-T3 from local vendors, even Aircraft spruce
>sells it in 12 X 4 foot lengths for $161, but the shipping cost would
>probably be prohibitive. By my calculations, this would only add an
>additional 1.8 pounds per side but it would look much better,
>eliminate the seams, and provide added strength to the wing. I would
>clamp the existing sheets on top of the new and match drill the holes
>into the new sheet. I may revert to using the provided skins but
>just a consideration.
>
>William
>40237
>----------
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Eng dept 305
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Pager (858) 502-5190
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Author: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@...> Time: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:01 pm PST Link
>I have the question out to Vans, but has anyone thought of replacing
>the separate inboard .032" and outboard .025" tops skins with a
>single sheet of 12 foot .032" 2024-T3?
>
>I hung the outer wings skins on, and I know it will be tighter when
>it is riveted, but I did not like the wavy look out the outer
>panels. In the April 2004 edition of EAA Sport Aviation, there is a
>picture of an RV-10 on page 28 with the wing rib lines clearly
>visible.
>
>I moved on to building the leading edges and fuel tanks while I
>considered this. The size required would be 27.5" X 144". I can get
>144 inch lengths of 2024-T3 from local vendors, even Aircraft spruce
>sells it in 12 X 4 foot lengths for $161, but the shipping cost would
>probably be prohibitive. By my calculations, this would only add an
>additional 1.8 pounds per side but it would look much better,
>eliminate the seams, and provide added strength to the wing. I would
>clamp the existing sheets on top of the new and match drill the holes
>into the new sheet. I may revert to using the provided skins but
>just a consideration.
>
>William
>40237
It's been done on the other RV's many times. You just have to want to drill
a LOT of holes in addition to buying those mongo huge rolls of alclad. Not
worth the effort IMHO. That overlap seam just about becomes invisible once
the plane is painted. Van's might say someting about load distribution
change due to constant thickness single piece skin vs. two piece. Can't
really comment on that. I ain't no injuneer.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
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Author: "dejavuan2" <wvu@...> Time: Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:40 pm PST Link
I agree w/ Brian. I also think the sticky point would be riveting
those inboard ribs that are so close together. I know I couldn't
reach all of those from the end. Make sure you can hit all rivets if
do you take this route.
Anh
#141
(match-drilling cabin top)
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Denk" <akroguy@h...> wrote:
> >I have the question out to Vans, but has anyone thought of
replacing
> >the separate inboard .032" and outboard .025" tops skins with a
> >single sheet of 12 foot .032" 2024-T3?
> >
> >I hung the outer wings skins on, and I know it will be tighter when
> >it is riveted, but I did not like the wavy look out the outer
> >panels. In the April 2004 edition of EAA Sport Aviation, there is
a
> >picture of an RV-10 on page 28 with the wing rib lines clearly
> >visible.
> >
> >I moved on to building the leading edges and fuel tanks while I
> >considered this. The size required would be 27.5" X 144". I can
get
> >144 inch lengths of 2024-T3 from local vendors, even Aircraft
spruce
> >sells it in 12 X 4 foot lengths for $161, but the shipping cost
would
> >probably be prohibitive. By my calculations, this would only add
an
> >additional 1.8 pounds per side but it would look much better,
> >eliminate the seams, and provide added strength to the wing. I
would
> >clamp the existing sheets on top of the new and match drill the
holes
> >into the new sheet. I may revert to using the provided skins but
> >just a consideration.
> >
> >William
> >40237
>
> It's been done on the other RV's many times. You just have to want
to drill
> a LOT of holes in addition to buying those mongo huge rolls of
alclad. Not
> worth the effort IMHO. That overlap seam just about becomes
invisible once
> the plane is painted. Van's might say someting about load
distribution
> change due to constant thickness single piece skin vs. two piece.
Can't
> really comment on that. I ain't no injuneer.
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> RV10 '51
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