Home -> RV-10 topic: Autopilot question

Author: "kentcforsythe" <yahoogroups@4sythe.com> Time: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:21 am PST Link



I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but would
like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level and
altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting the
hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently when
building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

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Author: Rick Sked <heeder777@...> Time: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:02 pm PST Link


Kent,

You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins for the roll servo, even after if you like working through access panels. The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the forward part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to attaching the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe there is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing leveler" and a more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself that has all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track features. The servos just do as they are told.

But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are almost completed before having to worry about mounting the servos. Tim Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I have seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember where.

Rick S.
40185
Wings

kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4sythe.com> wrote:

I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but would
like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level and
altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting the
hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently when
building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

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Author: "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@...> Time: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:34 pm PST Link



At least for the TruTrak autopilots there's actually 2 different
servos (2 roll and 2 pitch) for any given plane. There is one for
the very low end AP and then one for most of the rest. Difference is
that the one used for most of them (Digitrak, DFC, etc.) has a
feedback circuit. You can purchase the servo(s) separately and then
get the rest of the stuff later.

Like Rick said, the roll servo installs at the wing bellcrank
assembly - actually has a replacement bracket included as part of the
kit. It is possible to install after the bottom wing skins are on,
but would be a lot more work. The pitch servo installs just aft of
the battery "box" area where the elevator torque tube attaches. The
bracket is included as part of the fuselage kit and the area is
accessible anytime. Probably a lot easier before the tailcone is
attached to the cabin however.

Bob #40105

--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
> Kent,
>
> You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins for
the roll servo, even after if you like working through access panels.
The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the forward
part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to attaching
the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe
there is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing leveler"
and a more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself that
has all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track features.
The servos just do as they are told.
>
> But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are
almost completed before having to worry about mounting the servos.
Tim Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I
have seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember where.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Wings
>
> kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4...> wrote:

> I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but would
> like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level and
> altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting the
> hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently when
> building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance.

> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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Author: "Schmo" <schmoboy@...> Time: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:36 pm PST Link



There's pictures of the RV-10 TruTrak Pitch servo along with instructions on
rvtraining.com.

Sean #303

_____

From: Rick Sked [mailto:heeder777@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:03 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RV10] Autopilot question

Kent,

You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins for the roll
servo, even after if you like working through access panels. The pitch servo
mounts near the bell crank assembly in the forward part the tail cone and
you could wait until just prior to attaching the tailcone to the forward
fuselage to mount that up. I believe there is not a difference in the servos
between just a "wing leveler" and a more sophisticated autopilot, it's in
the autopilot itself that has all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb
track features. The servos just do as they are told.

But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are almost
completed before having to worry about mounting the servos. Tim Olson's site
has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I have seen photos of the
pitch servo as well just can't remember where.

Rick S.
40185
Wings

kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4sythe.com> wrote:

I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but would
like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level and
altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting the
hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently when
building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

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Author: "PJ" <seipel@...> Time: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:56 am PST Link



Can someone who's done this tell me: Is it easier to do the bottom
skins before or after one does the pushrods and bellcranks (and AP
servo)? I realize that putting all of that together would be easier
with the bottom skins off, but doesn't it get in the way when you're
trying to buck the rivets for the bottom skins?

PJ
40032

--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@b...> wrote:
>
> At least for the TruTrak autopilots there's actually 2 different
> servos (2 roll and 2 pitch) for any given plane. There is one for
> the very low end AP and then one for most of the rest. Difference is
> that the one used for most of them (Digitrak, DFC, etc.) has a
> feedback circuit. You can purchase the servo(s) separately and then
> get the rest of the stuff later.
>
> Like Rick said, the roll servo installs at the wing bellcrank
> assembly - actually has a replacement bracket included as part of the
> kit. It is possible to install after the bottom wing skins are on,
> but would be a lot more work. The pitch servo installs just aft of
> the battery "box" area where the elevator torque tube attaches. The
> bracket is included as part of the fuselage kit and the area is
> accessible anytime. Probably a lot easier before the tailcone is
> attached to the cabin however.
>
> Bob #40105
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
> > Kent,
> >
> > You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins for
> the roll servo, even after if you like working through access panels.
> The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the forward
> part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to attaching
> the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe
> there is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing leveler"
> and a more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself that
> has all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track features.
> The servos just do as they are told.
> >
> > But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are
> almost completed before having to worry about mounting the servos.
> Tim Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I
> have seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember where.
> >
> > Rick S.
> > 40185
> > Wings
> >
> > kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4...> wrote:

> > I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but would
> > like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level and
> > altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting the
> > hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently when
> > building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any assistance.

> > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > document.write('');
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.

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> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Author: Tim Olson <tim@...> Time: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:24 am PST Link


I can't really answer your question regarding the pushrods and servos
getting in the way of bucking the skin rivets, but my take on it would
be this...

Getting the servo installed would be quite a bit harder with the skins
on. I'm sure it could be done, but it would not be nearly as easy.
The bellcrank and pushrods probably wouldn't be too big a deal to do
with the skins on.

I think that the servo probably wouldn't be much in the way when
trying to buck the skin rivets, but the pushrod may be kind of
a pain...haven't tried though. That being the case, I can see
probably the best compromise being to mount the servo and bellcrank
brackets and hinge parts, but just not insert the pushrods until after
the skins are riveted. If mine get in the way I'll pull them out.
But, I really don't want to un-mount my servo...so I'm glad it looks
like that will be fine.

To the people asking about buying servos before closing the wings,
sure, you could do it later, but if you have any clue as to which
AP you're buying, I'd really recommend at least buying the
roll servo up front.....and don't do as I did...I bought from
TruTrak and then found out that you can buy from their dealers
for a pretty good discount. Find a dealer right away and buy
from them instead. There are many. 3 that I know of are
Steinair.com, lessdrag.com, and rvtraining.com. I'll be going
to one of them when I need to buy my sorcerer AP head.

--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170

PJ wrote:

> Can someone who's done this tell me: Is it easier to do the bottom
> skins before or after one does the pushrods and bellcranks (and AP
> servo)? I realize that putting all of that together would be easier
> with the bottom skins off, but doesn't it get in the way when you're
> trying to buck the rivets for the bottom skins?
>
> PJ
> 40032
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@b...> wrote:
>
>>At least for the TruTrak autopilots there's actually 2 different
>>servos (2 roll and 2 pitch) for any given plane. There is one for
>>the very low end AP and then one for most of the rest. Difference is
>>that the one used for most of them (Digitrak, DFC, etc.) has a
>>feedback circuit. You can purchase the servo(s) separately and then
>>get the rest of the stuff later.
>>
>>Like Rick said, the roll servo installs at the wing bellcrank
>>assembly - actually has a replacement bracket included as part of the
>>kit. It is possible to install after the bottom wing skins are on,
>>but would be a lot more work. The pitch servo installs just aft of
>>the battery "box" area where the elevator torque tube attaches. The
>>bracket is included as part of the fuselage kit and the area is
>>accessible anytime. Probably a lot easier before the tailcone is
>>attached to the cabin however.
>>
>>Bob #40105
>>
>>--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
>>
>>>Kent,
>>>
>>>You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins for
>>
>>the roll servo, even after if you like working through access panels.
>>The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the forward
>>part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to attaching
>>the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe
>>there is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing leveler"
>>and a more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself that
>>has all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track features.
>>The servos just do as they are told.

>>>But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are
>>
>>almost completed before having to worry about mounting the servos.
>>Tim Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I
>>have seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember where.

>>>Rick S.
>>>40185
>>>Wings
>>>
>>>kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4...> wrote:

>>>I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but would
>>>like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level and
>>>altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting the
>>>hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently when
>>>building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance for any assistance.

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Author: "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@...> Time: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:57 am PST Link



Prior to putting on the bottom skins you will have installed the pair
of brackets for the bellcrank mount. The AP servo replaces one of
these with a bracket that the servo mounts to. There are some bolts
that are on the top side of the wing that will be difficult to get to
through the access panel, but not impossible. The standard
directions have you install the pushrods and actual bellcrank after
the bottom skin is already in place - no problem! There's also no
interference issues when riveting the bottom skin in place if the AP
servo is installed.

If you decided to wait and install the AP servo after the bottom
skins were already on, here's what I'd recommend:
Before installing the bottom skin: install the wiring for the servo
along with other wiring. You can find the specifics s on the TruTrak
website, but you'll need 5 #22 wires and 2 #20 wires for the roll
servo (pitch servo has an additional #22 wire). Also, go ahead and
install a DB-9 male connector and backshell on the servo end.

When you decide to install the servo you'll want to do as much as
possible before being forced to work through the access panel:
- Attach the servo to the new bracket (included with the servo).
- Install the DB-9 connector to the servo. This is on the top side
of the wing after installation and would be VERY difficult to install
after bolting in the servo.
- Install the servo/bracket assembly in the wing. This will involve 2
bolts for the TruTrak bracket and there's a bolt from the remaining
Van's bracket that will need to be removed/reinstalled to capture
another TruTrak supplied support for the servo.

Following the above sequence will only require installing 3 bolts
through the access panel.

Here's the install manual with the wiring diagram (page 12) for the
servos:
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/DFCinstall.pdf

The roll servo install is the same as for the RV-7. Since the RV-
10 "standard" is to put the servo in the right wing, this is a mirror
image:
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/RV-7RollInstall.pdf

Bob #40105

--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "PJ" <seipel@s...> wrote:

> Can someone who's done this tell me: Is it easier to do the bottom
> skins before or after one does the pushrods and bellcranks (and AP
> servo)? I realize that putting all of that together would be easier
> with the bottom skins off, but doesn't it get in the way when you're
> trying to buck the rivets for the bottom skins?
>
> PJ
> 40032
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@b...> wrote:
> >
> > At least for the TruTrak autopilots there's actually 2 different
> > servos (2 roll and 2 pitch) for any given plane. There is one
for
> > the very low end AP and then one for most of the rest.
Difference is
> > that the one used for most of them (Digitrak, DFC, etc.) has a
> > feedback circuit. You can purchase the servo(s) separately and
then
> > get the rest of the stuff later.
> >
> > Like Rick said, the roll servo installs at the wing bellcrank
> > assembly - actually has a replacement bracket included as part of
the
> > kit. It is possible to install after the bottom wing skins are
on,
> > but would be a lot more work. The pitch servo installs just aft
of
> > the battery "box" area where the elevator torque tube attaches.
The
> > bracket is included as part of the fuselage kit and the area is
> > accessible anytime. Probably a lot easier before the tailcone is
> > attached to the cabin however.
> >
> > Bob #40105
> >
> > --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
> > > Kent,
> > >
> > > You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins
for
> > the roll servo, even after if you like working through access
panels.
> > The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the
forward
> > part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to
attaching
> > the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe
> > there is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing
leveler"
> > and a more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself
that
> > has all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track
features.
> > The servos just do as they are told.
> > >
> > > But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are
> > almost completed before having to worry about mounting the
servos.
> > Tim Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I
> > have seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember
where.
> > >
> > > Rick S.
> > > 40185
> > > Wings
> > >
> > > kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4...> wrote:

> > > I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but
would
> > > like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level
and
> > > altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting
the
> > > hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently
when
> > > building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any assistance.

> > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > > document.write('');
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.

> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Author: "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@...> Time: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:55 am PST Link



Correction to my earlier post: the servos have male connectors on
them and the wing wiring should terminate in a FEMALE DB-9 connector.

Bob #40105

--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@b...> wrote:
>
> Prior to putting on the bottom skins you will have installed the
pair
> of brackets for the bellcrank mount. The AP servo replaces one of
> these with a bracket that the servo mounts to. There are some
bolts
> that are on the top side of the wing that will be difficult to get
to
> through the access panel, but not impossible. The standard
> directions have you install the pushrods and actual bellcrank after
> the bottom skin is already in place - no problem! There's also no
> interference issues when riveting the bottom skin in place if the
AP
> servo is installed.
>
> If you decided to wait and install the AP servo after the bottom
> skins were already on, here's what I'd recommend:
> Before installing the bottom skin: install the wiring for the servo
> along with other wiring. You can find the specifics s on the
TruTrak
> website, but you'll need 5 #22 wires and 2 #20 wires for the roll
> servo (pitch servo has an additional #22 wire). Also, go ahead and
> install a DB-9 male connector and backshell on the servo end.
>
> When you decide to install the servo you'll want to do as much as
> possible before being forced to work through the access panel:
> - Attach the servo to the new bracket (included with the servo).
> - Install the DB-9 connector to the servo. This is on the top side
> of the wing after installation and would be VERY difficult to
install
> after bolting in the servo.
> - Install the servo/bracket assembly in the wing. This will involve
2
> bolts for the TruTrak bracket and there's a bolt from the remaining
> Van's bracket that will need to be removed/reinstalled to capture
> another TruTrak supplied support for the servo.
>
> Following the above sequence will only require installing 3 bolts
> through the access panel.
>
> Here's the install manual with the wiring diagram (page 12) for the
> servos:
> http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/DFCinstall.pdf
>
> The roll servo install is the same as for the RV-7. Since the RV-
> 10 "standard" is to put the servo in the right wing, this is a
mirror
> image:
> http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/RV-7RollInstall.pdf

> Bob #40105

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Author: "SteinAir, Inc." <flyboyyy@...> Time: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:35 pm PST Link



Correct. Remember, both DSubs & BNC connectors are "gendered" from
the pins inside, NOT the shell.

Also, if you are interested, we provide harnesses for the Autopilot
Stuff directly and through TruTrak. This includes full harnesses as
well as "half harnesses" for those only wishing to wire the wings.

Just an FYI...

Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis

http://www.steinair.com

--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@b...> wrote:
>
> Correction to my earlier post: the servos have male connectors on
> them and the wing wiring should terminate in a FEMALE DB-9
connector.
>
> Bob #40105
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@b...>
wrote:
> >
> > Prior to putting on the bottom skins you will have installed the
> pair
> > of brackets for the bellcrank mount. The AP servo replaces one
of
> > these with a bracket that the servo mounts to. There are some
> bolts
> > that are on the top side of the wing that will be difficult to
get
> to
> > through the access panel, but not impossible. The standard
> > directions have you install the pushrods and actual bellcrank
after
> > the bottom skin is already in place - no problem! There's also
no
> > interference issues when riveting the bottom skin in place if
the
> AP
> > servo is installed.
> >
> > If you decided to wait and install the AP servo after the bottom
> > skins were already on, here's what I'd recommend:
> > Before installing the bottom skin: install the wiring for the
servo
> > along with other wiring. You can find the specifics s on the
> TruTrak
> > website, but you'll need 5 #22 wires and 2 #20 wires for the
roll
> > servo (pitch servo has an additional #22 wire). Also, go ahead
and
> > install a DB-9 male connector and backshell on the servo end.
> >
> > When you decide to install the servo you'll want to do as much
as
> > possible before being forced to work through the access panel:
> > - Attach the servo to the new bracket (included with the
servo).
> > - Install the DB-9 connector to the servo. This is on the top
side
> > of the wing after installation and would be VERY difficult to
> install
> > after bolting in the servo.
> > - Install the servo/bracket assembly in the wing. This will
involve
> 2
> > bolts for the TruTrak bracket and there's a bolt from the
remaining
> > Van's bracket that will need to be removed/reinstalled to
capture
> > another TruTrak supplied support for the servo.
> >
> > Following the above sequence will only require installing 3
bolts
> > through the access panel.
> >
> > Here's the install manual with the wiring diagram (page 12) for
the
> > servos:
> > http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/DFCinstall.pdf
> >
> > The roll servo install is the same as for the RV-7. Since the
RV-
> > 10 "standard" is to put the servo in the right wing, this is a
> mirror
> > image:
> > http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/RV-7RollInstall.pdf

> > Bob #40105

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Author: "jaybrinkmeyer" <jaybrinkmeyer@...> Time: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:27 am PST Link



Wait! I'm at the "put bottom skins on wings" point. The TrueTrak roll
servo requires shared use of 2 aileron bracket/tie down mounting
bolts. Since I already riveted on my leading edges, there's no way to
remove those bolts. Now I get to burn a couple hours cutting an access
panel. I seem to recall that the aileron bracket attachment step was
one of the first things done to the spar... So don't wait too long to
read the directions!

Cheers,
Jay
40011 - Ailerons

--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
> Kent,
>
> You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins for
the roll servo, even after if you like working through access panels.
The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the forward
part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to attaching
the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe there
is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing leveler" and a
more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself that has
all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track features. The
servos just do as they are told.
>
> But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are
almost completed before having to worry about mounting the servos. Tim
Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I have
seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember where.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Wings
>
> kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4...> wrote:

> I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but would
> like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level and
> altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting the
> hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently when
> building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance.

> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> document.write('');
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
>
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> RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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Author: "rdoerr01" <rdoerr@...> Time: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:15 am PST Link



Actually, the bolts that hold the Bell Crank bracket to the wings are
nutplates. I believe you are thinking about the bolts that hold the
tie down block to the wing, those are bolted on with stop nuts.

You can mount the Bell Crank to the wings after the top and LE skins
are because of these nutplates.

Ray Doerr
40250
Finishing flaps/ailron and just started fuse.

--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "jaybrinkmeyer" <jaybrinkmeyer@y...>
wrote:

> Wait! I'm at the "put bottom skins on wings" point. The TrueTrak
roll
> servo requires shared use of 2 aileron bracket/tie down mounting
> bolts. Since I already riveted on my leading edges, there's no way
to
> remove those bolts. Now I get to burn a couple hours cutting an
access
> panel. I seem to recall that the aileron bracket attachment step was
> one of the first things done to the spar... So don't wait too long
to
> read the directions!
>
> Cheers,
> Jay
> 40011 - Ailerons

> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
> > Kent,
> >
> > You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins
for
> the roll servo, even after if you like working through access
panels.
> The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the forward
> part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to attaching
> the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe
there
> is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing leveler" and
a
> more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself that has
> all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track features. The
> servos just do as they are told.
> >
> > But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are
> almost completed before having to worry about mounting the servos.
Tim
> Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I have
> seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember where.
> >
> > Rick S.
> > 40185
> > Wings
> >
> > kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4...> wrote:

> > I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but would
> > like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level and
> > altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting
the
> > hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently
when
> > building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any assistance.

> > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > document.write('');
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

> > ---------------------------------
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> > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Author: Rick Sked <heeder777@...> Time: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:55 am PST Link


Good question!!

After looking over the plans it looks like EVERYTHING gets in the way of riveting the bottom skins. For the guys who have them on already how was the access to rivet/buck the skins and how did they come out? I gues I shouldn't have generalized the AP servo part, I was thinking Trutrak and knew my choice of AP and the servos that go along with it. I knew there were two types depending on the choice of head.

Rick S.
40185
Wings

PJ <seipel@seznam.cz> wrote:

Can someone who's done this tell me: Is it easier to do the bottom
skins before or after one does the pushrods and bellcranks (and AP
servo)? I realize that putting all of that together would be easier
with the bottom skins off, but doesn't it get in the way when you're
trying to buck the rivets for the bottom skins?

PJ
40032

--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@b...> wrote:
>
> At least for the TruTrak autopilots there's actually 2 different
> servos (2 roll and 2 pitch) for any given plane. There is one for
> the very low end AP and then one for most of the rest. Difference is
> that the one used for most of them (Digitrak, DFC, etc.) has a
> feedback circuit. You can purchase the servo(s) separately and then
> get the rest of the stuff later.
>
> Like Rick said, the roll servo installs at the wing bellcrank
> assembly - actually has a replacement bracket included as part of the
> kit. It is possible to install after the bottom wing skins are on,
> but would be a lot more work. The pitch servo installs just aft of
> the battery "box" area where the elevator torque tube attaches. The
> bracket is included as part of the fuselage kit and the area is
> accessible anytime. Probably a lot easier before the tailcone is
> attached to the cabin however.
>
> Bob #40105
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
> > Kent,
> >
> > You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins for
> the roll servo, even after if you like working through access panels.
> The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the forward
> part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to attaching
> the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe
> there is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing leveler"
> and a more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself that
> has all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track features.
> The servos just do as they are told.
> >
> > But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are
> almost completed before having to worry about mounting the servos.
> Tim Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I
> have seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember where.
> >
> > Rick S.
> > 40185
> > Wings
> >
> > kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4...> wrote:

> > I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but would
> > like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level and
> > altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting the
> > hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently when
> > building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any assistance.

> > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > document.write('');
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.

> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Author: "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@...> Time: Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:14 am PST Link



No problem riveting on the bottom skins with the AP servo in place -
turned out fine. Actually, I don't remember the servo being a
factor at all! There's no rivets that the servo itself blocks
because of the access panel cutout. Only issue that might come up
would be ability to reach through the access panel, past the
bellcrank and through the inboard rib lightening hole and that can
be overcome by temporarily removing the bellcrank to servo pushrod
attach bolt. There are a LOT tougher places to get to - like the
rivets toward the trailing edge on the inboard half of the outboard
bottom skin!

Also, the bellcrank brackets are held in place with bolts into
nutplates - no issue removing/replacing after the leading edge is in
place.

Bob #40105

--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
> Good question!!
>
> After looking over the plans it looks like EVERYTHING gets in the
way of riveting the bottom skins. For the guys who have them on
already how was the access to rivet/buck the skins and how did they
come out? I gues I shouldn't have generalized the AP servo part, I
was thinking Trutrak and knew my choice of AP and the servos that go
along with it. I knew there were two types depending on the choice
of head.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Wings

> PJ <seipel@s...> wrote:

> Can someone who's done this tell me: Is it easier to do the bottom
> skins before or after one does the pushrods and bellcranks (and AP
> servo)? I realize that putting all of that together would be
easier
> with the bottom skins off, but doesn't it get in the way when
you're
> trying to buck the rivets for the bottom skins?
>
> PJ
> 40032
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@b...>
wrote:
> >
> > At least for the TruTrak autopilots there's actually 2 different
> > servos (2 roll and 2 pitch) for any given plane. There is one
for
> > the very low end AP and then one for most of the rest.
Difference is
> > that the one used for most of them (Digitrak, DFC, etc.) has a
> > feedback circuit. You can purchase the servo(s) separately and
then
> > get the rest of the stuff later.
> >
> > Like Rick said, the roll servo installs at the wing bellcrank
> > assembly - actually has a replacement bracket included as part
of the
> > kit. It is possible to install after the bottom wing skins are
on,
> > but would be a lot more work. The pitch servo installs just aft
of
> > the battery "box" area where the elevator torque tube attaches.
The
> > bracket is included as part of the fuselage kit and the area is
> > accessible anytime. Probably a lot easier before the tailcone
is
> > attached to the cabin however.
> >
> > Bob #40105
> >
> > --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
> > > Kent,
> > >
> > > You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom
skins for
> > the roll servo, even after if you like working through access
panels.
> > The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the
forward
> > part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to
attaching
> > the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe
> > there is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing
leveler"
> > and a more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself
that
> > has all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track
features.
> > The servos just do as they are told.
> > >
> > > But to answer your question you could wait until your wings
are
> > almost completed before having to worry about mounting the
servos.
> > Tim Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know
I
> > have seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember
where.
> > >
> > > Rick S.
> > > 40185
> > > Wings
> > >
> > > kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4...> wrote:

> > > I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but
would
> > > like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level
and
> > > altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting
the
> > > hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently
when
> > > building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any assistance.

> > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > > document.write('');
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.

> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> document.write('');
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Author: "dejavuan2" <wvu@...> Time: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:30 pm PST Link



I agree with Ray. My study sometime ago showed installation should
not be an issue after you complete the wings. If it is otherwise,
I'm in deep doodoo.
Anh
#141
--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "rdoerr01" <rdoerr@k...> wrote:
>
> Actually, the bolts that hold the Bell Crank bracket to the wings
are
> nutplates. I believe you are thinking about the bolts that hold
the
> tie down block to the wing, those are bolted on with stop nuts.
>
> You can mount the Bell Crank to the wings after the top and LE
skins
> are because of these nutplates.

> Ray Doerr
> 40250
> Finishing flaps/ailron and just started fuse.

> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "jaybrinkmeyer" <jaybrinkmeyer@y...>
> wrote:

> > Wait! I'm at the "put bottom skins on wings" point. The TrueTrak
> roll
> > servo requires shared use of 2 aileron bracket/tie down mounting
> > bolts. Since I already riveted on my leading edges, there's no
way
> to
> > remove those bolts. Now I get to burn a couple hours cutting an
> access
> > panel. I seem to recall that the aileron bracket attachment step
was
> > one of the first things done to the spar... So don't wait too
long
> to
> > read the directions!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jay
> > 40011 - Ailerons

> > --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
> > > Kent,
> > >
> > > You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins
> for
> > the roll servo, even after if you like working through access
> panels.
> > The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the forward
> > part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to
attaching
> > the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe
> there
> > is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing leveler"
and
> a
> > more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself that
has
> > all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track features. The
> > servos just do as they are told.
> > >
> > > But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are
> > almost completed before having to worry about mounting the
servos.
> Tim
> > Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I have
> > seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember where.
> > >
> > > Rick S.
> > > 40185
> > > Wings
> > >
> > > kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4...> wrote:

> > > I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but
would
> > > like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level
and
> > > altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting
> the
> > > hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently
> when
> > > building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any assistance.

> > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > > document.write('');
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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Author: "Randy DeBauw" <randy@...> Time: Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:31 pm PST Link



I did it in this order. Build the wings less bottom skins. Install the servo. Build the tubes and install them. Install the torque tubes and check the fit and adjust them per the plans. Install the wiring in the wings with everything connected as they will be when the wings are on. Figure out how you will connect the pitot tube and wires (the bottom skins will most likely have to be on before you attach the pitot. Pull the long tube out but leave the aileron tube connected to the bell crank. Install the bottom skins. This worked for me. Randy

-----Original Message-----
From: PJ [mailto:seipel@seznam.cz]
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 5:38 PM
To: RV10@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV10] Re: Autopilot question

Can someone who's done this tell me: Is it easier to do the bottom
skins before or after one does the pushrods and bellcranks (and AP
servo)? I realize that putting all of that together would be easier
with the bottom skins off, but doesn't it get in the way when you're
trying to buck the rivets for the bottom skins?

PJ
40032

--- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Condrey" <bob.condrey@b...> wrote:
>
> At least for the TruTrak autopilots there's actually 2 different
> servos (2 roll and 2 pitch) for any given plane. There is one for
> the very low end AP and then one for most of the rest. Difference is
> that the one used for most of them (Digitrak, DFC, etc.) has a
> feedback circuit. You can purchase the servo(s) separately and then
> get the rest of the stuff later.
>
> Like Rick said, the roll servo installs at the wing bellcrank
> assembly - actually has a replacement bracket included as part of the
> kit. It is possible to install after the bottom wing skins are on,
> but would be a lot more work. The pitch servo installs just aft of
> the battery "box" area where the elevator torque tube attaches. The
> bracket is included as part of the fuselage kit and the area is
> accessible anytime. Probably a lot easier before the tailcone is
> attached to the cabin however.
>
> Bob #40105
>
> --- In RV10@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sked <heeder777@y...> wrote:
> > Kent,
> >
> > You can wait all the way up to installing the wing bottom skins for
> the roll servo, even after if you like working through access panels.
> The pitch servo mounts near the bell crank assembly in the forward
> part the tail cone and you could wait until just prior to attaching
> the tailcone to the forward fuselage to mount that up. I believe
> there is not a difference in the servos between just a "wing leveler"
> and a more sophisticated autopilot, it's in the autopilot itself that
> has all the geewhizz bang intercept, descend,climb track features.
> The servos just do as they are told.
> >
> > But to answer your question you could wait until your wings are
> almost completed before having to worry about mounting the servos.
> Tim Olson's site has some good photos of the roll servo, I know I
> have seen photos of the pitch servo as well just can't remember where.
> >
> > Rick S.
> > 40185
> > Wings
> >
> > kentcforsythe <yahoogroups@4...> wrote:

> > I am not familiar with the inner workings of autopilots but would
> > like to install one in my RV10 that will at least wing level and
> > altitude hold. At what point do I need to worry about getting the
> > hardware for this? Is there anything I need to do differently when
> > building the emp/tailcone to account for the autopilot?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any assistance.

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