Author: dacook777@... Time: Tue Aug 21, 2001 9:11 pm PDT Link
I just started on the empenage of my -7. I know this may be an old
subject but I would love some input. I noticed a lot of messages
concerning "which" primer system to use. I'm begining to wonder if
the question should be "why" prime at all? I just purchased some
alumiprep, alodyne and AKZO because that's the way Boeing does it. As
I ponder all these products it occurs to me that if you open up the
wings of the average Cessna, Piper etc you'll find no priming or
corrosion protection other than the alclad parts. We have many 50+
year old Cessnas etc. flying around my neck of the woods (Northern
California) with no corrosion. I fly boeing and Douglas aircraft for
a living. I know why they need protection; one of the many reasons is
we fly for long periods of time at high altitude completely cold-
soaking the aircraft then you descend into an enviroment like Texas
or Florida and so much moisture condenses on the inside of the
aircraft that the airplane requires drain tubes to expel the water
(not to mention condensation created from airconditioning systems,
lavs and hundreds of passengers.
So is my preception of general aviation aircraft correct? Do they
infact normally have no corrosion protection when built? If so why
would I want to go the expense both in time and money (possible
health risks?) to add an extra 5lbs to 20lbs of weight to a 1100lb
airplane when I'm not likly to be flying this airplane in 20 years.
It may very well last 50+ years anyway?
Author: robert@... Time: Tue Aug 21, 2001 11:04 pm PDT Link
All really good points. After asking the same questions and getting
ten different answers, I decided to do a simple prime from a rattle
can using NAPA 7220 self etching primer. I'm just doing it on parts
that will never see the light of day again. I'm going to let the
paint shop worry about prepping the outside surfaces. The only pre-
prime I'm doing is a soap and water clean or MEK wipe.
I hope that helps.
Robert Paisley
--- In RV7and7A@y..., dacook777@a... wrote:
> I just started on the empenage of my -7. I know this may be an old
> subject but I would love some input. I noticed a lot of messages
> concerning "which" primer system to use. I'm begining to wonder if
> the question should be "why" prime at all? I just purchased some
> alumiprep, alodyne and AKZO because that's the way Boeing does it.
As
> I ponder all these products it occurs to me that if you open up the
> wings of the average Cessna, Piper etc you'll find no priming or
> corrosion protection other than the alclad parts. We have many 50+
> year old Cessnas etc. flying around my neck of the woods (Northern
> California) with no corrosion. I fly boeing and Douglas aircraft
for
> a living. I know why they need protection; one of the many reasons
is
> we fly for long periods of time at high altitude completely cold-
> soaking the aircraft then you descend into an enviroment like Texas
> or Florida and so much moisture condenses on the inside of the
> aircraft that the airplane requires drain tubes to expel the water
> (not to mention condensation created from airconditioning systems,
> lavs and hundreds of passengers.
> So is my preception of general aviation aircraft correct? Do they
> infact normally have no corrosion protection when built? If so why
> would I want to go the expense both in time and money (possible
> health risks?) to add an extra 5lbs to 20lbs of weight to a 1100lb
> airplane when I'm not likly to be flying this airplane in 20 years.
> It may very well last 50+ years anyway?
Author: eaainc@... Time: Wed Aug 22, 2001 4:28 am PDT Link
In a message dated 8/22/01 12:13:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dacook777@a... writes:
to add an extra 5lbs to 20lbs of weight to a 1100lb
airplane when I'm not likly to be flying this airplane in 20 years.
It may very well last 50+ years anyway?
(end of quote)
A happy medium is to use an aerosol type of self etching primer and than just
do edges and where parts go together as you build.
Jan Eggenfellner
Author: Dan Masys <dmasys@...> Time: Wed Aug 22, 2001 8:13 am PDT Link
At 06:04 AM 8/22/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>All really good points. After asking the same questions and getting
>ten different answers, I decided to do a simple prime from a rattle
>can using NAPA 7220 self etching primer. I'm just doing it on parts
>that will never see the light of day again. I'm going to let the
>paint shop worry about prepping the outside surfaces. The only pre-
>prime I'm doing is a soap and water clean or MEK wipe.
Doing the same. One nice thing about that primer is that I took my
completed HS assembly down to the high priests at EAA Chapter 14 to have it
blessed, and where several RV-6's are under construction. I noticed one
that had identical flat gray priming as mine, and said to the builder --
"looks like you're using rattle can priming." He said "Nope. That's acid
etch, Alodyne, and two part epoxy." So after the gray goes on, nobody
knows whether its Boeing or NAPA.
Dan Masys
RV7A N868DM (reserved) San Diego, CA
Author: "LT Chris Hayle" <dchayle@...> Time: Wed Aug 22, 2001 2:35 pm PDT Link
I agree with Robert..the NAPA self etching primer works great with just a soap and water cleaning. You waste alot with overspray, but i can live with that.
-Chris Hayle
Quote:
-----Original Message-----
From: robert@protekperformance.com [mailto:robert@p...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 2:04 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7and7A] Re: Primimg?
All really good points. After asking the same questions and getting
ten different answers, I decided to do a simple prime from a rattle
can using NAPA 7220 self etching primer. I'm just doing it on parts
that will never see the light of day again. I'm going to let the
paint shop worry about prepping the outside surfaces. The only pre-
prime I'm doing is a soap and water clean or MEK wipe.
I hope that helps.
Robert Paisley
--- In RV7and7A@y..., dacook777@a... wrote:
> I just started on the empenage of my -7. I know this may be an old
> subject but I would love some input. I noticed a lot of messages
> concerning "which" primer system to use. I'm begining to wonder if
> the question should be "why" prime at all? I just purchased some
> alumiprep, alodyne and AKZO because that'sthe way Boeing does it.
As
> I ponder all these products it occursto me that if you open up the
> wings of the average Cessna, Piper etc you'll find no priming or
> corrosion protection other than the alclad parts. We have many 50+
> year old Cessnas etc. flying around my neck of the woods (Northern
> California) with no corrosion. I fly boeing and Douglas aircraft
for
> a living. I know why they need protection; one of the many reasons
is
> we fly for long periods of time at high altitude completely cold-
> soaking the aircraft then you descend into an enviroment like Texas
> or Florida and so much moisture condenses on the inside of the
> aircraft that the airplane requires drain tubes to expel the water
> (not to mention condensation created from airconditioning systems,
> lavs and hundreds of passengers.
> So is my preception of general aviation aircraft correct? Do they
> infact normally have no corrosion protection when built? Ifso why
> would I want to go the expense both in time and money (possible
> health risks?) to add an extra 5lbs to 20lbs of weight to a 1100lb
> airplane when I'm not likly to be flying this airplane in 20 years.
> It may very well last 50+ years anyway?
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Termsof Service (http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).
(end of quote)
Author: crashace@... Time: Wed Aug 29, 2001 6:15 pm PDT Link
Hello Everyone!!
I'm new to the RV World and am considering an RV-7. I am also
a professional automotive painter.I've attended both PPG's and
Sherwin Williams' paint schools. Here's my opinion on the whole
priming issue.
Any bare exposed metal will corrode. With that, we need two
things for a "durable"(key word) corrosion resistant finish.
1. Some form of an "etch" to make the surface porous, so that
the primer can adhere properly.
2. Epoxy, epoxy, epoxy!!!!!
The reason for the etch is so primer will adhere. The reason
for the epoxy primer is so the aluminum can't be nicked and
scratched, the start of corrosion.
Author: fitzair4@... Time: Wed Aug 29, 2001 6:59 pm PDT Link
In a message dated 8/29/2001 6:17:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
crashace@t... writes:
Epoxy Good advice:
For all the new builders. Take a look in the inside of some of the older
planes. Their is corrosion inside looks like chalk.
Once this corrosion start and can't be removed, after sanding some of it
off. What is a good commercial echant that can be put on alum and what type
for metal corrosion be for you put on epoxy primer.
Larry
Any bare exposed metal will corrode. With that, we need two
things for a "durable"(key word) corrosion resistant finish.
1. Some form of an "etch" to make the surface porous, so that
the primer can adhere properly.
2. Epoxy, epoxy, epoxy!!!!!
The reason for the etch is so primer will adhere. The reason
for the epoxy primer is so the aluminum can't be nicked and
scratched, the start of corrosion.
(end of quote)
Author: "Chris Harris" <crashace@...> Time: Wed Aug 29, 2001 7:12 pm PDT Link
I would recommend PPG's DX1791/1792 for anetch. As for the epoxy, PPG's DPLF line is wonderful stuff.
----- Original Message -----
From: fitzair4@aol.com (mailto:fitzair4@a...)
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com (mailto:rv7and7a@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7and7A] Re: Primimg?
In a message dated 8/29/2001 6:17:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
crashace@t... (mailto:crashace@t...) writes:
Epoxy Good advice:
For all the new builders. Takea look in the inside of some of the older
planes. Their is corrosion inside looks like chalk.
Once this corrosion start and can't be removed, after sanding some of it
off. What is a good commercial echant that can be put on alum and what type
for metal corrosion be for you put on epoxy primer.
Larry
Any bare exposed metal will corrode. With that, we need two
things for a "durable"(key word) corrosion resistant finish.
1. Some form of an "etch" to make the surface porous, so that
the primer can adhere properly.
2. Epoxy, epoxy, epoxy!!!!!
The reason for the etch is so primer will adhere. The reason
for the epoxy primer is so the aluminum can't be nicked and
scratched, the start of corrosion.
(end of quote)
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Termsof Service (http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).
(end of quote)
Author: fitzair4@... Time: Wed Aug 29, 2001 7:57 pm PDT Link
In a message dated 8/29/2001 7:34:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
crashace@t... writes:
I would recommend PPG's DX1791/1792 for an etch. As for the epoxy, PPG's
DPLF line is wonderful stuff.
(end of quote)
Thanks for the advice on etch. I once painted (10 years ago) a chevy van
with Dupont centari paint, but forgot what I primed it with. It had a lot of
rust on its top.
Sanded, primed and painted. It still looks very good. I learned once it
starts to rust,
you can slow it down, but not stop it.
Thanks
Larry
Do you by chance have any stock in the PPG Co.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Author: "Chris Harris" <crashace@...> Time: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:31 pm PDT Link
Larry,
No, I don't have stock in PPG. Ha! Ha! Really though, I've sprayed PPG for years and it has never let me down. They make great products that work, as long as you follow directions. As with all paint systems, if you skip a step or do things out of order, you're gonna be hating yourself later. E-Mail me if you have any more paint issues.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: fitzair4@aol.com (mailto:fitzair4@a...)
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com (mailto:rv7and7a@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7and7A] Re: Primimg?
In a message dated 8/29/2001 7:34:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
crashace@t... (mailto:crashace@t...) writes:
I would recommend PPG's DX1791/1792 for an etch. Asfor the epoxy, PPG's
DPLF line is wonderful stuff.
(end of quote)
Thanks for the advice on etch. I once painted (10 years ago) a chevy van
with Dupont centari paint, but forgot what I primed it with. It had a lot of
rust on its top.
Sanded, primed and painted. It still looks very good. I learned once it
starts to rust,
you can slow it down, but not stop it.
Thanks
Larry
Do you by chance have any stock in the PPG Co.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Termsof Service (http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).
(end of quote)
Author: "Walt A." <walt99@...> Time: Thu Aug 30, 2001 5:33 am PDT Link
Is it really necessary to etch the interior surfaces of the parts? A painter at work said that you only really need to etch where an especially durable finish is required like the exterior. So I havebeen using scotch brite and cleaning with MEK then epoxy priming on the interior surfaces.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Harris (mailto:crashace@t...)
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com (mailto:rv7and7a@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7and7A] Re: Primimg?
I would recommend PPG's DX1791/1792 for an etch. As for the epoxy, PPG's DPLF line is wonderful stuff.
----- Original Message -----
From: fitzair4@a... (mailto:fitzair4@a...)
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com (mailto:rv7and7a@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 20019:58 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7and7A] Re: Primimg?
In a messagedated 8/29/2001 6:17:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
crashace@t... (mailto:crashace@t...) writes:
Epoxy Good advice:
For all the new builders. Take a look in the inside of some of the older
planes. Their is corrosion inside looks like chalk.
Once this corrosion start and can't be removed, after sanding some of it
off. What is a good commercial echant that can be put on alum and what type
for metal corrosion be for you put on epoxy primer.
Larry
Any bare exposed metal will corrode. With that, we need two
things for a "durable"(key word) corrosion resistant finish.
1. Some form of an "etch" to make the surface porous, so that
the primer can adhere properly.
2. Epoxy, epoxy, epoxy!!!!!
The reason for the etch is so primer will adhere. The reason
for the epoxy primer is so the aluminum can't be nicked and
scratched, the start of corrosion.
(end of quote)
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service (http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).
(end of quote)
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Termsof Service (http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).
(end of quote)