Author: "manlosangeles" <manlosangeles@...> Time: Fri Dec 21, 2001 11:34 pm PST Link
my preview plans talk about marking ribs, etc. in a way that you can
still read the marks after priming.
but what are you guys doing, punch marks, vibrating pencil,....?
doesn't the vibrating pencil make a "scratch" that must be sanded
out? i know the preview plans says just do it anyway, but what's the
real story on this? why isn't doing that just as bad as a scratch?
Author: sal99@... Time: Sat Dec 22, 2001 7:26 am PST Link
Dont waste your time with a punch or a vibrating pencil , just clean your
parts and mark them with a sharpie pencil and prime. the markings will show
through the primer. I use Dupont Veriprime primer.
Author: "manlosangeles" <manlosangeles@...> Time: Sat Dec 22, 2001 5:20 pm PST Link
--- In RV7and7A@y..., sal99@a... wrote:
> Dont waste your time with a punch or a vibrating pencil , just
clean your
> parts and mark them with a sharpie pencil and prime. the markings
will show
> through the primer. I use Dupont Veriprime primer.
The Sharpie marker shows through the Veriprime? That's hard to
believe...but I'll take your word for it enough to try it out...I'm
curious...
Author: "enewton57" <enewton57@...> Time: Sat Dec 22, 2001 7:19 pm PST Link
--- In RV7and7A@y..., "manlosangeles" <manlosangeles@y...> wrote:
> --- In RV7and7A@y..., sal99@a... wrote:
> > Dont waste your time with a punch or a vibrating pencil , just
> clean your
> > parts and mark them with a sharpie pencil and prime. the markings
> will show
> > through the primer. I use Dupont Veriprime primer.
>
> The Sharpie marker shows through the Veriprime? That's hard to
> believe...but I'll take your word for it enough to try it out...I'm
> curious...
If it doesn't, you are putting on way too much primer and adding un-
necessary weight. When you prime, just do a very light, transparent
coat.
Author: Bobby Hester <bhester@...> Time: Sat Dec 22, 2001 7:57 pm PST Link
manlosangeles wrote:
> --- In RV7and7A@y..., sal99@a... wrote:
> > Dont waste your time with a punch or a vibrating pencil , just
> clean your
> > parts and mark them with a sharpie pencil and prime. the markings
> will show
> > through the primer. I use Dupont Veriprime primer.
>
> The Sharpie marker shows through the Veriprime? That's hard to
> believe...but I'll take your word for it enough to try it out...I'm
> curious...
I'll help you believe. I used Veriprime and yes marking from a Sharpie
will show thru.When cleaning the part before primeing you might wipe the
sharpie marks off so remark them if you do. I think you can even see the
marks on some of the pictures on my web site.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
Starting RV7A wings :-)
Author: "dean_mustang" <dean_mustang@...> Time: Mon Dec 24, 2001 1:01 pm PST Link
My understanding is that the pencil contains graphite/lead - and may
lead to dissimilar metal corosion/galvanic corrosion... sanding or
erasing the pencil lead out isn't neccesarily the best thing to do,
because that eliminates the top layer of corrosion protection on the
aluminum piece. For these reasons, most kit manufacturers I have
spoken with prefer dry-erase markers. The dry-erase marks can easily
be wiped off, or removed with MEK or a commercial degreaser.
--- In RV7and7A@y..., "manlosangeles" <manlosangeles@y...> wrote:
> my preview plans talk about marking ribs, etc. in a way that you
can
> still read the marks after priming.
>
> but what are you guys doing, punch marks, vibrating pencil,....?
>
> doesn't the vibrating pencil make a "scratch" that must be sanded
> out? i know the preview plans says just do it anyway, but what's
the
> real story on this? why isn't doing that just as bad as a scratch?
Author: "dean_mustang" <dean_mustang@...> Time: Mon Dec 24, 2001 1:09 pm PST Link
Sharpie markers are another good option, the marks they leave are
also removable w/MEK or degreaser.
--- In RV7and7A@y..., "dean_mustang" <dean_mustang@y...> wrote:
> My understanding is that the pencil contains graphite/lead - and
may
> lead to dissimilar metal corosion/galvanic corrosion... sanding or
> erasing the pencil lead out isn't neccesarily the best thing to do,
> because that eliminates the top layer of corrosion protection on
the
> aluminum piece. For these reasons, most kit manufacturers I have
> spoken with prefer dry-erase markers. The dry-erase marks can
easily
> be wiped off, or removed with MEK or a commercial degreaser.
> --- In RV7and7A@y..., "manlosangeles" <manlosangeles@y...> wrote:
> > my preview plans talk about marking ribs, etc. in a way that you
> can
> > still read the marks after priming.
> >
> > but what are you guys doing, punch marks, vibrating pencil,....?
> >
> > doesn't the vibrating pencil make a "scratch" that must be sanded
> > out? i know the preview plans says just do it anyway, but what's
> the
> > real story on this? why isn't doing that just as bad as a
scratch?
Author: "manlosangeles" <manlosangeles@...> Time: Mon Dec 24, 2001 1:18 pm PST Link
Not a regular pencil but a "vibrating" pencil - it's a metal point
that vibrates to mark/scribe a metal, plastic or other hard object.
Van's plans recommend using one because whatever you write with the
markers will get erased during cleaning prior to priming.
So, if you mark parts when clecoed and then disassemble for cleaning,
you have unmarked parts. You could then remark them and primer over
them (you can read the marker through the primer), but then that
means there's a stage (after cleaning) where they're unmarked.
So...that's why I was wondering whether current builders are using a
vibrating pencil or punch-marks...
And if they're using the vibrating pencil, are they concerned that
the marks will constitute "scratches" that are absolutely FORBIDDEN
(they must be sanded out and then primed). But Van's says forget
about all that, the vibrating pencil can be used...(so my question is
why is that OK but scratches are not ok?)......
...Hey it's Christmas Eve and this is too much thinking...I need some
Eggnog...)
Cheers!
--- In RV7and7A@y..., "dean_mustang" <dean_mustang@y...> wrote:
> My understanding is that the pencil contains graphite/lead - and
may
> lead to dissimilar metal corosion/galvanic corrosion... sanding or
> erasing the pencil lead out isn't neccesarily the best thing to do,
> because that eliminates the top layer of corrosion protection on
the
> aluminum piece. For these reasons, most kit manufacturers I have
> spoken with prefer dry-erase markers. The dry-erase marks can
easily
> be wiped off, or removed with MEK or a commercial degreaser.
> --- In RV7and7A@y..., "manlosangeles" <manlosangeles@y...> wrote:
> > my preview plans talk about marking ribs, etc. in a way that you
> can
> > still read the marks after priming.
> >
> > but what are you guys doing, punch marks, vibrating pencil,....?
> >
> > doesn't the vibrating pencil make a "scratch" that must be sanded
> > out? i know the preview plans says just do it anyway, but what's
> the
> > real story on this? why isn't doing that just as bad as a
scratch?
Author: "Greg Young" <gyoung@...> Time: Mon Dec 24, 2001 2:54 pm PST Link
You're obsessing way too much. If you're priming normal working batches of
parts there's few enough that you won't get them confused. You can separate
them by position on the priming table or how you hang them to dry. Or run
some safety wire thru a hole with a masking tape tag. Most parts will have
some non-PP holes and therefore be unique - they'll only fit one place. If
they're truly identical then it doesn't matter. Vibra-pen marks can get
scuffed out by Scotchbrite unless you make it really deep. Sharpies are the
markers of choice. Just mark both sides. Prime one side and if it obscures
it, re-mark over the primer before shooting the other side. IMHO marking
methods are one of the least productive things to worry about. Just start
building and it WILL work itself out.
Regards,
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY Houston (DWH) RIP
Searching for Navion
-----Original Message-----
From: manlosangeles [mailto:manlosangeles@y...]
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 3:18 PM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7and7A] Re: marking parts with vibrating pencil?
Not a regular pencil but a "vibrating" pencil - it's a metal point
that vibrates to mark/scribe a metal, plastic or other hard object.
Van's plans recommend using one because whatever you write with the
markers will get erased during cleaning prior to priming.
So, if you mark parts when clecoed and then disassemble for cleaning,
you have unmarked parts. You could then remark them and primer over
them (you can read the marker through the primer), but then that
means there's a stage (after cleaning) where they're unmarked.
So...that's why I was wondering whether current builders are using a
vibrating pencil or punch-marks...
And if they're using the vibrating pencil, are they concerned that
the marks will constitute "scratches" that are absolutely FORBIDDEN
(they must be sanded out and then primed). But Van's says forget
about all that, the vibrating pencil can be used...(so my question is
why is that OK but scratches are not ok?)......
...Hey it's Christmas Eve and this is too much thinking...I need some
Eggnog...)
Cheers!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: sal99@... Time: Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:10 am PST Link
My procedure to marking parts is to scotch brite a small area and number them
with a sharpie . After all parts are numbered i scrubb them with a scotch
brite pad in a bucket of warm water and dish washing liquid .The marked part
is scrubbed with a spounge to remove dirt and oils. Rinse in clean water,
shake off excess water and hang to air dry. Prime as soon after drying. Marks
will show thru primer unless you over prime . Hope this helps .Good luck to
all , Sal.
Author: "Son Hoang" <shoang@...> Time: Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:35 am PST Link
Vans's spec for the RV7 shows the width of the cabin is 43" which is as wide as that of a C 182
but when I measured it the interior width is 37"
Any one cares to comments ?
----- Original Message -----
From: sal99@a...
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [RV7and7A] Re: marking parts with vibrating pencil?
My procedure to marking parts is to scotch brite a small area and number them
with a sharpie . After all parts are numbered i scrubb them with a scotch
brite pad in a bucket of warm water and dish washing liquid .The marked part
is scrubbed with a spounge to remove dirt and oils. Rinse in clean water,
shake off excess water and hang to air dry. Prime as soon after drying. Marks
will show thru primer unless you over prime . Hope this helps .Good luck to
all , Sal.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "manlosangeles" <manlosangeles@...> Time: Tue Dec 25, 2001 9:38 am PST Link
So you don't have to use all those special cleaners and surface prep
products? Just warm water and dish soap in a bucket, then primer?
--- In RV7and7A@y..., sal99@a... wrote:
> My procedure to marking parts is to scotch brite a small area and
number them
> with a sharpie . After all parts are numbered i scrubb them with a
scotch
> brite pad in a bucket of warm water and dish washing liquid .The
marked part
> is scrubbed with a spounge to remove dirt and oils. Rinse in clean
water,
> shake off excess water and hang to air dry. Prime as soon after
drying. Marks
> will show thru primer unless you over prime . Hope this helps .Good
luck to
> all , Sal.
Author: Ian and John <jjessen01@...> Time: Tue Dec 25, 2001 5:36 pm PST Link
Width and comfort is a big concern of mine. I was told it was 42 wide at the shoulders, whatever that means. When I flew it I noticed it felt a bit wider than a Cherokee, which is 39.5. More comfortable than the latter, too, but not a Commander.
Son Hoang <shoang@s...> wrote: Vans's spec for the RV7 shows the width of the cabin is 43" which is as wide as that of a C 182
but when I measured it the interior width is 37"
Any one cares to comments ?
----- Original Message -----
From: sal99@a...
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [RV7and7A] Re: marking parts with vibrating pencil?
My procedure to marking parts is to scotch brite a small area and number them
with a sharpie . After all parts are numbered i scrubb them with a scotch
brite pad in a bucket of warm water and dish washing liquid .The marked part
is scrubbed with a spounge to remove dirt and oils. Rinse in clean water,
shake off excess water and hang to air dry. Prime as soon after drying. Marks
will show thru primer unless you over prime . Hope this helps .Good luck to
all , Sal.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: henry kinney <henrykinney@...> Time: Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:04 pm PST Link
I am looking forward to this answer. I sat in the demo
and it seemed small to me .. Also the legroom seemed
cramped.
--- Son Hoang <shoang@s...> wrote:
> Vans's spec for the RV7 shows the width of the cabin
> is 43" which is as wide as that of a C 182
> but when I measured it the interior width is 37"
> Any one cares to comments ?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: sal99@a...
> To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 9:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [RV7and7A] Re: marking parts with
> vibrating pencil?
> My procedure to marking parts is to scotch brite a
> small area and number them
> with a sharpie . After all parts are numbered i
> scrubb them with a scotch
> brite pad in a bucket of warm water and dish
> washing liquid .The marked part
> is scrubbed with a spounge to remove dirt and
> oils. Rinse in clean water,
> shake off excess water and hang to air dry. Prime
> as soon after drying. Marks
> will show thru primer unless you over prime . Hope
> this helps .Good luck to
> all , Sal.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
=====
Henry W. Kinney
4395 Menge Ave.
Pass Christian, Mississippi
39571
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Author: sal99@... Time: Fri Dec 28, 2001 4:11 am PST Link
Your using a scotch brite pad to rough up the surface , a cleaner that
removes dirt and oils, and a self etching primer , what more do you need ...
Author: "manlosangeles" <manlosangeles@...> Time: Fri Dec 28, 2001 8:26 am PST Link
--- In RV7and7A@y..., sal99@a... wrote:
> Your using a scotch brite pad to rough up the surface , a cleaner
that
> removes dirt and oils, and a self etching primer , what more do you
need ...
***not a thing - that's the point - all those things will remove the
identifying marks made with the sharpie. that's why Vans recommends
the vibrating pencil...
...yesterday i did a practice piece with sharpie and green zinc
primer, and sure enough, the sharpie shows through perfectly through
the primer. so i think Van's was talking about the sharpie being
erased during the cleaning process, right?
...but all this is the least of things for me to think about right
now...
Author: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@...> Time: Fri Dec 28, 2001 8:46 am PST Link
Sorry if this sounds cynical, and no offense intended, but geeze, folks..build the airplane. I think someone else said it will come together. The more time we spend tweaking our shops, buying engravers, and worrying about if our parts are marked correctly is very counterproductive. There are very few parts on the RV that are similar to something else. You have a few that are important that you get the right way, left and right, etc. but it is not worth going back over every stinking part in the airplane and marking with an engraver. Mark the left and right ailerong brackets, flap braces, etc and be done with it.
Build it, or it will never get done!!! I didn't do this with my -6, and it's flying. So are thousands of others. You will find that the closer you get, the less worried you are about little things, and you just make yourself "build the airplane". When I was on the home stretch, (for the last year) I got sick of spending all day out at the hanger on one stupid little project because I was worried about something you could only see with an inpsection mirror and a flashlight. I got a saying that I used whenever I got obsessed. It was "build the airplane, Paul" I would tell myself that (sometimes outloud) to make mysefl quit tweaking with something and finish it. Marking parts with an engraver and debating about how they should be marked and weather or not a sharpie will stay on is a perfect example of how projects take longer than they should.
Build it! It will fly, I promise! And you are gonna love your airplane, believe me!!!!
Paul Besing
RV-6A N197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Flying
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: manlosangeles
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 9:26 AM
Subject: [RV7and7A] Re: marking parts with vibrating pencil?
--- In RV7and7A@y..., sal99@a... wrote:
> Your using a scotch brite pad to rough up the surface , a cleaner
that
> removes dirt and oils, and a self etching primer , what more do you
need ...
***not a thing - that's the point - all those things will remove the
identifying marks made with the sharpie. that's why Vans recommends
the vibrating pencil...
...yesterday i did a practice piece with sharpie and green zinc
primer, and sure enough, the sharpie shows through perfectly through
the primer. so i think Van's was talking about the sharpie being
erased during the cleaning process, right?
...but all this is the least of things for me to think about right
now...
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: sal99@... Time: Fri Dec 28, 2001 8:59 am PST Link
If you scotchbrite a small area and put your mark on that area with a sharpe
pen and don't scotchbrite over that area when cleaning with soap and water
,just rubbing a sponge over that area will not remove the marks . It might
lighten them a little , in that case , go over your marks again with the
sharpe and prime.
Author: "B. Tomm" <fvalarm@...> Time: Fri Dec 28, 2001 10:49 am PST Link
I agree with Paul.
My opinion is that first time builders do not have the perspective as to
"what is good enough" simply because of lack of experience (myself
included). We worry about tolerances, marking, priming, which engine to use
etc etc ETC. Let's just get the job done. It's tough enough as it is, and
many projects get shelved because the builder runs out of time, money,
patience, confidence, understanding wives etc. I have two mottos so far
that may help:
A) NO ONE RIVET HOLDS THE AIRPLANE TOGETHER
B) MAKE PROGRESS
That's my 2 cents
Bevan
finishing emp this year!!!
RV7A