Author: "jthav8r" <jhelms@...> Time: Thu Jan 3, 2002 1:48 pm PST Link
Hello, a customer of mine called me today and asked me some questions
regarding the type of engine he should choose with regard to
insurance. He told me of this ongoing discussion (and I am a little
embarrassed to say I hadn't checked the postings lately... still
catching up from 2 very strange weeks.)
Basically, this was my answer to him, and I thought you all would
profit from hearing this from me as well:
I believe that Avemco is the only company currently writing coverage
for RV's with automobile engines.
I am unsure about whether or not Avemco or any other is writing
coverage for RV's with turbine engines.
The only engines which are covered by the VanGuard Program are those
which are of a type and horsepower recommended by Van's Aircraft for
that model.
The reason for the aversion these newer, less tested engines is
primarily (in my opinion) because with a Lycoming (or continental)
there is some decent sized entity to go after if they have some
liability (Lycoming is not going to fold up shop and disappear when
presented with the lawsuit as a small engine shop might.) Example:
Engine failure at altitude causing a total loss of the airplane value
and costing the company some liability as well due to passenger
liability. If it is a new Lyc. then their insurance might
potentially pay the loss back to your insurance company. If it is
reman'd then the shop that did the work probably warranties their
work, and has insurance (this is also why on repairs, the ins.
companies want you to use reputable shops that have insurance... so
that potentially there is some $$ to go after to recoup future
losses.) And Lyc's have been around for a long time, and the
companies can predict how many will fail each year, helping them
project losses, better price their product.
Hope this helps
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Pleasure and Business Branch
--- In RV7and7A@y..., "wallaceenga" <wallaceenga@y...> wrote:
> --- In RV7and7A@y..., "luscombe68017" <luscombe68017@y...> wrote:
> > More food for thought. I understand that Avemco will insure
Jan's
> > package--at $3800.00 per year, whereas NationAir will insure a 6
> with
> > a "real" engine for $1600 per year. Too often people get into a
> > plane and find out they cannot afford to insure it. Look at the
> > Harmon Rocket. The last two companies that were writing coverage
> for
> > it have discontinued doing so last year. You are limiting your
> > options with an alternate engine in an already tight insurance
> market.
> >
> > John Kunkle
> > RV6 working on fuse
> > --- In RV7and7A@y..., "rp10294648" <rpflanze2@h...> wrote:
>
> Are you sure you are quoting premiums at the same coverage levels
> with the same pilot ratings / hours?
Author: "Daniel Masys, M.D." <dmasys@...> Time: Thu Jan 3, 2002 2:30 pm PST Link
At 09:48 PM 1/3/2002 +0000, HT Helms wrote:
>The only engines which are covered by the VanGuard Program are those
>which are of a type and horsepower recommended by Van's Aircraft for
>that model.
>
>Hope this helps
>
>John "JT" Helms
>Branch Manager
>NationAir Pleasure and Business Branch
JT, would this logic extend to covering the Superior XP360 engine?
(http://www.superiorairparts.com)
Appears to be a refined Lycoming O-360; can't tell whether it is a
certified engine from their web info.
-Dan Masys
Author: "jthav8r" <jhelms@...> Time: Thu Jan 3, 2002 2:52 pm PST Link
Isn't that just a remanufactured Lycoming with high compression
pistons?
If it is actually a newly manufactured engine (basically a Lycoming
look-a-like), I would have to ask the insurance company to make a
decision, but the second part of my post (talking about experience
the companies have with certain engine manufacturers) might come into
play. They might not want to do it based upon that.
Forgive me I am a turbine helicopter guy (UH-60 Army pilot), barely
know how a recip engine works (just kidding).
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Pleasure and Business Branch
--- In RV7and7A@y..., "Daniel Masys, M.D." <dmasys@u...> wrote:
> At 09:48 PM 1/3/2002 +0000, HT Helms wrote:
> >The only engines which are covered by the VanGuard Program are
those
> >which are of a type and horsepower recommended by Van's Aircraft
for
> >that model.
> >
> >Hope this helps
> >
> >John "JT" Helms
> >Branch Manager
> >NationAir Pleasure and Business Branch
>
> JT, would this logic extend to covering the Superior XP360 engine?
> (http://www.superiorairparts.com)
>
> Appears to be a refined Lycoming O-360; can't tell whether it is a
> certified engine from their web info.
>
> -Dan Masys
Author: Mark Ruddock <mruddock_2000@...> Time: Thu Jan 3, 2002 3:26 pm PST Link
The XP360 is an all new 360 made from stock parts by
Superior Air Parts. It is also being packaged as
kit-build packages but all are completely Xperimental
engines as far as the FAR, with refinements and elec
Ignition built in or available.
There are hints at STC for Premium Unleaded Auto gas
on the web site but I havent found the details on
which varieties can run on auto gas yet.
This looks like a good package to me but not way less
expensive than the Lyc. Resale and ins. are factors
price wise, but safety first. They are marketed as
better than Lyc and they seem to have a lot going for
them, they have pedegree (all parts FAR certified now)
The RV8 built by Joe Schumaker on Discovery Wings
"From the Ground Up" has put the IO360 180 horse XP360
in his RV's nose.
Thanks
Mark Ruddock
--- "Daniel Masys, M.D." <dmasys@u...> wrote:
> At 09:48 PM 1/3/2002 +0000, HT Helms wrote:
> >The only engines which are covered by the VanGuard
> Program are those
> >which are of a type and horsepower recommended by
> Van's Aircraft for
> >that model.
> >
> >Hope this helps
> >
> >John "JT" Helms
> >Branch Manager
> >NationAir Pleasure and Business Branch
>
> JT, would this logic extend to covering the Superior
> XP360 engine?
> (http://www.superiorairparts.com)
>
> Appears to be a refined Lycoming O-360; can't tell
> whether it is a
> certified engine from their web info.
>
> -Dan Masys
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Author: Mark Olson <molson1@...> Time: Thu Jan 3, 2002 8:07 pm PST Link
I talked to a couple of A&Ps recently about the XP360, and got very
positive
comments. I was told that oil distribution is much improved over stock
Lycoming, it uses Millenium cylinders, and was also told that the
engine,
out of the crate, will deliver ~195HP, even though it's rated at 180.
They also said that these engines will easily go to TBO without
problems.
When it gets closer to engine-hanging time, I will seriously consider
this engine.
Mark Ruddock wrote:
> The XP360 is an all new 360 made from stock parts by
> Superior Air Parts. It is also being packaged as
> kit-build packages but all are completely Xperimental
> engines as far as the FAR, with refinements and elec
> Ignition built in or available.
> There are hints at STC for Premium Unleaded Auto gas
> on the web site but I havent found the details on
> which varieties can run on auto gas yet.
>
> This looks like a good package to me but not way less
> expensive than the Lyc. Resale and ins. are factors
> price wise, but safety first. They are marketed as
> better than Lyc and they seem to have a lot going for
> them, they have pedegree (all parts FAR certified now)
>
> The RV8 built by Joe Schumaker on Discovery Wings
> "From the Ground Up" has put the IO360 180 horse XP360
> in his RV's nose.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark Ruddock
> --- "Daniel Masys, M.D." <dmasys@u...> wrote:
> > At 09:48 PM 1/3/2002 +0000, HT Helms wrote:
> > >The only engines which are covered by the VanGuard
> > Program are those
> > >which are of a type and horsepower recommended by
> > Van's Aircraft for
> > >that model.
> > >
> > >Hope this helps
> > >
> > >John "JT" Helms
> > >Branch Manager
> > >NationAir Pleasure and Business Branch
> >
> > JT, would this logic extend to covering the Superior
> > XP360 engine?
> > (http://www.superiorairparts.com)
> >
> > Appears to be a refined Lycoming O-360; can't tell
> > whether it is a
> > certified engine from their web info.
> >
> > -Dan Masys
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