Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Thu Jan 3, 2002 11:41 pm PST Link
--> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...>
On this note:
> Are you sure you are quoting premiums at the same coverage levels
> with the same pilot ratings / hours?
I am a first-time homebuilder, building an RV-7, planning on putting in a
200hp Lycoming IO-360A3B6 (or a LyCon or Bart conversion or something
similar). I would love to get a sense of the "insurance pricing matrix",
which I guess would include the following (and probably several other)
axes/variables:
- hull value
- coverage limits
- pilot's total hours
- pilot's ratings
- pilot's tailwheel time (is this a factor?)
- first time builder (is this a factor?)
- engine type/certification/size (is size/horsepower a factor?)
- existing policy (same insurance co. or other) on a production aircraft
(is this a factor?)
Is there anybody out there who knows the definitive set of variables that
are taken into account? Does it vary from company to company?
I have high total time, a handful of ratings, plenty of tailwheel & retract
time (for whatever that's worth), I fly regularly, etc. I haven't gone
ahead and gotten a quote for my RV-7 yet (it'll be at least a year or two at
this rate), but I'd love to find out roughly what it's gonna run me...or at
least what it would cost today.
I wonder if there's any way to create an N-dimensional poll of sorts...where
currently flying RV pilots can enter the values for all these variables and
we could come up with some sort of meaningful average. Any ideas? I guess
short of something fancy, if anybody feels compelled to post their
information to the list (or feel free to send it to me privately if you
prefer), please do!
Thanks,
)_( Dan
dan@r...
http://www.rvproject.com:8000
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Author: Mark Ruddock <mruddock_2000@...> Time: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:27 am PST Link
For what its worth, I went to Avemco's web site and
asked for a free quote from an on-line form. This is
a worthwhile activity to get a guage as to how much
on-going costs are involved with airplane ownership.
Hangers at Elington field are min $250/month for
sharing a larger hanger.
Total hours and ratings do make a significant
difference in cost. Ins companies may not want to
reveal their formulas, but I figure I will be asking
them lots of questions about what I can do to reduce
the rates, Getting an Inst. rating, what will that
lower it for me etc.
Mark
--- Dan Checkoway <dan@r...> wrote:
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
> <dan@r...>
>
> On this note:
> > Are you sure you are quoting premiums at the same
> coverage levels
> > with the same pilot ratings / hours?
>
> I am a first-time homebuilder, building an RV-7,
> planning on putting in a
> 200hp Lycoming IO-360A3B6 (or a LyCon or Bart
> conversion or something
> similar). I would love to get a sense of the
> "insurance pricing matrix",
> which I guess would include the following (and
> probably several other)
> axes/variables:
>
> - hull value
> - coverage limits
> - pilot's total hours
> - pilot's ratings
> - pilot's tailwheel time (is this a factor?)
> - first time builder (is this a factor?)
> - engine type/certification/size (is
> size/horsepower a factor?)
> - existing policy (same insurance co. or other)
> on a production aircraft
> (is this a factor?)
>
> Is there anybody out there who knows the definitive
> set of variables that
> are taken into account? Does it vary from company
> to company?
>
> I have high total time, a handful of ratings, plenty
> of tailwheel & retract
> time (for whatever that's worth), I fly regularly,
> etc. I haven't gone
> ahead and gotten a quote for my RV-7 yet (it'll be
> at least a year or two at
> this rate), but I'd love to find out roughly what
> it's gonna run me...or at
> least what it would cost today.
>
> I wonder if there's any way to create an
> N-dimensional poll of sorts...where
> currently flying RV pilots can enter the values for
> all these variables and
> we could come up with some sort of meaningful
> average. Any ideas? I guess
> short of something fancy, if anybody feels compelled
> to post their
> information to the list (or feel free to send it to
> me privately if you
> prefer), please do!
>
> Thanks,
> )_( Dan
> dan@r...
> http://www.rvproject.com:8000
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> Contributions of
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> any other form
> _-= of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
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> latest messages.
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>
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Author: "jthav8r" <jhelms@...> Time: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:59 am PST Link
Posted this as a response on the RV-List and posting it here too.
Dan,
My name is John Helms. I am an aviation insurance agent. I run an
office which handles only small aircraft, and we run the VanGuard
Program, which is a special insurance program for RVs. We deal with
all of the insurance companies which are competitive with light
aircraft.
I can help you out, but you won't find anyone willing to publish
rates (Opens companies up for disputes and such if the underwriting
dept. decides (which is their job) not to give a certain discount to
an individual for some reason, and the rates change.) I can let you
know some general break points at which you would receive discounts,
generally what is going to affect your rates, etc. Generally, these
are going to be similar with any insurance company, however their
base rates may start out very different.
Many of the following are true of production aircraft as well:
Hull value - (also known as agreed value in the Physical Damage
Coverage section in insurance policy) determined by you, agreed to
(or not) by the insurance company. The companies generally want a
production aircrafts value to be within 25% of the blue book value
generally, they will deviate from that usually with justification.
Homebuilts have no blue book value and can vary widely. Generally,
the company will insure it for whatever you want (but will ask for
justifications like IFR panel, GPS, new engine, leather interior,
etc. over a certain value). For the program, this value is $80,000.
Above that they want some justification. The company assigns a rate
(per $100 of value which you and they agree upon) to charge you based
on your experience (see below).
Coverage limits - I assume you mean Liability coverage limits.
Generally, most people (about 80%) carry $1 Million limited to
$100,000 per passenger. (AVEMCO's coverage is written as per person
which is less protection for you because it limits bodily injury to
$100,000 even if the person is outside your plane... so if you kill
someone outside your plane and their family sues for $500,000, AVEMCO
would pay a maximum of $100,000 and you would pay the rest.... all
the other companies with the per passenger wording could pay up to
$1,000,000 for that persons death.) This coverage is generally much
less expensive than hull coverage and can be purchased seperately.
Pilot experience - (I lumped a few of your questions together.)
Generally, total time drives the rates more than anything else. The
lowest experienced level pilot is who drives the rates. Most
companies have break point of 100, 300, 500 hours total logged PIC
time (FAA's definition). At these break points the rates generally
drop 5 or 10%. Some companies give discounts for Instrument ratings,
and for some airplanes it may be required by some companies. Your
gear experience (tailwheel or retractable whichever is applicable to
your airplane if it is not tricycle) is important along with your
time in make and model. Each company does discounts for these as
they go up but each does it differently (some set goals like 300
tailwheel time and 100 hours make and model nets a 10% discount,
while others might say that when your tailwheel time and make and
model add up to be 500 it gets you a discount.)
First time buider - no factor.
Engine type - The program will only insure RV's with the type (i.e.
Lycoming) and hp (i.e. not an IO 540) that is recommended by Van's
Aircraft for that type of RV. Automobile engines, turbines, etc
can't be insured by the program (and I don't believe any company
other than AVEMCO will write coverage if you have one of these
engines)
Existing Policy - It is a good idea to build a relationship with one
insurance company. Generally, they feel comfortable with you, and
you with them and their policy (that you should really read.) It
usually provides you with very little monetary benefit to stay with
the company you're with now. Some companies don't write coverages
for a lot of homebuilts and the fact that they insure your spam can
now won't matter to them.
Please contact me at this email address or toll free 877 475 5860 if
you have any questions or if you would like for me to get you
a "sense" of where you would be at today if you were binding coverage.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manger
--- In RV7and7A@y..., Mark Ruddock <mruddock_2000@y...> wrote:
> For what its worth, I went to Avemco's web site and
> asked for a free quote from an on-line form. This is
> a worthwhile activity to get a guage as to how much
> on-going costs are involved with airplane ownership.
> Hangers at Elington field are min $250/month for
> sharing a larger hanger.
>
> Total hours and ratings do make a significant
> difference in cost. Ins companies may not want to
> reveal their formulas, but I figure I will be asking
> them lots of questions about what I can do to reduce
> the rates, Getting an Inst. rating, what will that
> lower it for me etc.
> Mark
> --- Dan Checkoway <dan@r...> wrote:
> > --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
> > <dan@r...>
> >
> > On this note:
> > > Are you sure you are quoting premiums at the same
> > coverage levels
> > > with the same pilot ratings / hours?
> >
> > I am a first-time homebuilder, building an RV-7,
> > planning on putting in a
> > 200hp Lycoming IO-360A3B6 (or a LyCon or Bart
> > conversion or something
> > similar). I would love to get a sense of the
> > "insurance pricing matrix",
> > which I guess would include the following (and
> > probably several other)
> > axes/variables:
> >
> > - hull value
> > - coverage limits
> > - pilot's total hours
> > - pilot's ratings
> > - pilot's tailwheel time (is this a factor?)
> > - first time builder (is this a factor?)
> > - engine type/certification/size (is
> > size/horsepower a factor?)
> > - existing policy (same insurance co. or other)
> > on a production aircraft
> > (is this a factor?)
> >
> > Is there anybody out there who knows the definitive
> > set of variables that
> > are taken into account? Does it vary from company
> > to company?
> >
> > I have high total time, a handful of ratings, plenty
> > of tailwheel & retract
> > time (for whatever that's worth), I fly regularly,
> > etc. I haven't gone
> > ahead and gotten a quote for my RV-7 yet (it'll be
> > at least a year or two at
> > this rate), but I'd love to find out roughly what
> > it's gonna run me...or at
> > least what it would cost today.
> >
> > I wonder if there's any way to create an
> > N-dimensional poll of sorts...where
> > currently flying RV pilots can enter the values for
> > all these variables and
> > we could come up with some sort of meaningful
> > average. Any ideas? I guess
> > short of something fancy, if anybody feels compelled
> > to post their
> > information to the list (or feel free to send it to
> > me privately if you
> > prefer), please do!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > )_( Dan
> > dan@r...
> > http://www.rvproject.com:8000
> _-
======================================================================
=
> > _-= - The RV7-List Email Forum -
> > _-= This forum is sponsored entirely through the
> > Contributions of
> > _-= List members. You'll never see banner ads or
> > any other form
> > _-= of direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> >
> _-
======================================================================
=
> > _-= !! NEW !!
> > _-= Browse List: Use your web browser to view the
> > latest messages.
> > _-= Photo Share: Share photos and files with
> > other List members.
> >
> _-
======================================================================
=
> > _-= List Related Information
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> >
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