Author: Ray <heyray22@...> Time: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:38 pm PST Link
I just started my 7A emp.kit and a friend asked
me if you prime all the parts then rivit it
together, how will it elect. bond?Not real sure I
understand the question so if anyone in the group
can shine some light it would help.
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Author: "robert_paisley" <robert@...> Time: Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:27 am PST Link
Hi Ray,
Congratulations on starting your kit. The rivets will electrically
connect the parts of your plane. Bolts will connect the subassamblies
(tail, fuse, wings). Typically, you will drill the final hole size
for the rivets after you have primed the parts. The rivet holes will
be bare aluminum.
Robert Paisley
RV-7 bolting the tail to the fuse.
--- In RV7and7A@y..., Ray <heyray22@y...> wrote:
> I just started my 7A emp.kit and a friend asked
> me if you prime all the parts then rivit it
> together, how will it elect. bond?Not real sure I
> understand the question so if anyone in the group
> can shine some light it would help.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Author: Miller Robert <rmiller3@...> Time: Sat Jan 12, 2002 11:13 am PST Link
Typically, you will drill the final hole size
for the rivets after you have primed the parts. The rivet holes will
be bare aluminum.
Robert Paisley
OK. I'm confused (not an unusual circumstance).
It seems some have written that they dimple, drill, and deburr before
priming and riveting.
I guess you are suggesting final drilling and deburring should typically
be after priming.
What, then, is the recommended practice? What are most builders doing
with respect to this?
Thanks.
Robert
robert_paisley wrote:
> Hi Ray,
> Congratulations on starting your kit. The rivets will electrically
> connect the parts of your plane. Bolts will connect the subassamblies
> (tail, fuse, wings). Typically, you will drill the final hole size
> for the rivets after you have primed the parts. The rivet holes will
> be bare aluminum.
> Robert Paisley
> RV-7 bolting the tail to the fuse.
>
> --- In RV7and7A@y..., Ray <heyray22@y...> wrote:
> > I just started my 7A emp.kit and a friend asked
> > me if you prime all the parts then rivit it
> > together, how will it elect. bond?Not real sure I
> > understand the question so if anyone in the group
> > can shine some light it would help.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@...> Time: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:12 pm PST Link
Personally I drill, deburr and dimple everything that I can until I get to the work 'rivet' in the manual. Once I am to rivet something together I take all the parts of that subassembly and prime them. Then I just finish whatever drilling and such as I go. I tried to drill, deburr and dimple everything before I primed but it took four priming sessions to finish the HS, and I HATE priming. I read about too many people that had airplanes flying that primed first drilled later. Basically do whatever makes you comfortable.
On the subject of electrical bonding... If I understand the question it is that you want the airframe to conduct well enough to be a good ground for your electrical devices. I would avoid local grounds if you can stand it. I intend to run a ground wire to every device no matter where it is and ground everything right to the (-) terminal of the battery. I think that this will save me a lot of headaches later. (After I calculate the weight of the wire going to the tailcone and the wingtips I may change my mind.) Many people ground lights and a few other 'non noise sensative' devices locally and it seems to work fine for them.
In any case I don't think that you are going to have to worry about not having an electrical path through every piece of aluminum on the airplane regardless of when you prime. There are just too many rivets, and aluminum is too good a conductor.
Phil Birkelbach
RV-7 - N727WB (Reserved) - http://www.myrv7.com
Houston, Texas
Flaps - Fuse ordered
Takeoffs are optional, Landings are mandatory.
----- Original Message -----
From: Miller Robert
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7and7A] Re: electrical bonding
Typically, you will drill the final hole size
for the rivets after you have primed the parts. The rivet holes will
be bare aluminum.
Robert Paisley
OK. I'm confused (not an unusual circumstance).
It seems some have written that they dimple, drill, and deburr before
priming and riveting.
I guess you are suggesting final drilling and deburring should typically
be after priming.
What, then, is the recommended practice? What are most builders doing
with respect to this?
Thanks.
Robert
robert_paisley wrote:
> Hi Ray,
> Congratulations on starting your kit. The rivets will electrically
> connect the parts of your plane. Bolts will connect the subassamblies
> (tail, fuse, wings). Typically, you will drill the final hole size
> for the rivets after you have primed the parts. The rivet holes will
> be bare aluminum.
> Robert Paisley
> RV-7 bolting the tail to the fuse.
>
> --- In RV7and7A@y..., Ray <heyray22@y...> wrote:
> > I just started my 7A emp.kit and a friend asked
> > me if you prime all the parts then rivit it
> > together, how will it elect. bond?Not real sure I
> > understand the question so if anyone in the group
> > can shine some light it would help.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "robert_paisley" <robert@...> Time: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:54 pm PST Link
I second Phil's grounding rules: Don't ground locally. It's bad
practice from every rule of electricity, electronics, vehicle
reliability, I'm sure there are other reasons. Don't create an
unreliable vehicle to save three ground wires (tail, and wings).
Robert Paisley
I would avoid local grounds if you can stand it. I intend to run a
ground wire to every device no matter where it is and ground
everything right to the (-) terminal of the battery. I think that
this will save me a lot of headaches later. (After I calculate the
weight of the wire going to the tailcone and the wingtips I may
change my mind.) Many people ground lights and a few other 'non
noise sensative' devices locally and it seems to work fine for them.
> Phil Birkelbach
> RV-7 - N727WB (Reserved) - http://www.myrv7.com
> Houston, Texas
> Flaps - Fuse ordered
Author: GTCJ68@... Time: Sun Jan 13, 2002 4:26 am PST Link
Robert,
Plain explain the rules of electricity that prohibit local gorunding of
non-electronic loads such as lights? What are the reliablity problems that
would occcur? Why does this effect the vehicle?
Mitch Lock
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "robert_paisley" <robert@...> Time: Sun Jan 13, 2002 8:27 am PST Link
Simple,
Do you know how good the connection is through the wing skins/ribs to
the spar, through the spar bolts, to some other unknown path on the
airframe to one or more ground wires attached at some random place on
the airframe from the battery - No, you will never know how good that
ground is. You won't know if you are losing two volts through a high
impedance ground which means the entire wing will be at two volts.
You won't know if that wing is .3 volts one day or 4 volts the next
day because of the unknown ground impedance. You are forcing return
currents to run over the entire airframe in their effort to seek the
least impedance path back to the battery. If your strobe becomes a
little weak or your landing light becomes a little weak, you will
never know it. If one day that ground impedance causes the wing to
rise to six volts and causes something to not work, you won't know
why. Many will tell you they have grounded things locally and never
had a problem. But that is akin to leaving bolts out of the engine
and saying it runs fine withour them - it probably does. But that is
not a good reason to do it. Your chances of having an electrical
problem at some point are substantially higher if you do not return
grounds back to a good ground point back in the cabin. A good ground
point is a place (a bolt or bus bar) that is fed from a main ground
cable directly from the battery. The engine case should also receive
a good ground cable from the battery to provide a low impedance
return for the spark currents from the ignition. These are very
simple steps that will add greatly to the integrity and long term
reliability of your electrical system.
Robert Paisley
I have worked in the aftermarket automotive electronic industry for
quite a while and have helped hundreds of people fix wiring problems
on vehicles. The small effort required to implement good grounding is
a very good (in my view mandatory)investment.
--- In RV7and7A@y..., GTCJ68@a... wrote:
> Robert,
>
> Plain explain the rules of electricity that prohibit local
gorunding of
> non-electronic loads such as lights? What are the reliablity
problems that
> would occcur? Why does this effect the vehicle?
>
> Mitch Lock
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "rp10294648" <rpflanze2@...> Time: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:50 am PST Link
Get a copy of the "Aeroelectric Connection" before wiring anything in
your airplane. (www.aeroelectric.com) In there, Bob explains the
finer points of ground loops. There will be nothing more
exasperating to you than to roll your beautiful bird out of the
hanger, fire her up, and find out that you can hear static, strobes,
and other noise in your stereo headsets. These demons are a pain to
track down and correct after the fact and they really distract from
the overall satisfaction of flying.
I ran ground wires to a common grounding point that I purchased from
Aeroelectric.com in my RV-6 and my stereo intercom/headsets were as
quiet as listening to the stereo at home. Unless you understand
electrical demons for a living, I'd just follow what Bob suggests in
his book and spend your time worrying about something else.
Randy
--- In RV7and7A@y..., GTCJ68@a... wrote:
> Robert,
>
> Plain explain the rules of electricity that prohibit local
gorunding of
> non-electronic loads such as lights? What are the reliablity
problems that
> would occcur? Why does this effect the vehicle?
>
> Mitch Lock
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]