Author: Clifford Dow <cdowjr@...> Time: Mon Jan 14, 2002 3:43 pm PST Link
QB Rudder pedals
When you get to the rudder pedals on the QB you will
encounter the following problem: On the firewall you
have what I will call a pan which sticks IN towards
the cabin (located in the center upper section of the
firewall think it provides clearance for the oil
filter on the engine). You will find its IN THE WAY
when it comes to riveting the CENTER support for the
rudder pedal system. I stewed on things while my two
friends helping me tried to figure out what to do.
Without giving them too much time I just ran a drill
bit thought the pan - from the OUTSIDE of the
fuselage a 3/8 1/2 inch bit being careful NOT to
dig into the fuselage angle - DON"T JUST DRIVE THE BIT
THROUGH - ONLY SINK IT SLIGHTLY (I ground it out a bit
with a drummel grinder with a chain saw sharpening bit
worked slick problem encountered was the cone
shaped drill bit could not drill far without drilling
into the fuselage angle (don't drill into it) the
blunt end chain saw sharpening bit allowed me to open
the hole left by the chain saw sharpening bit a
blunt end bit) - and then inserted the rivets. Next
I put a round rod in and set it on the rivet head
(this was just a ½ inch rod about 2 inches long flat
on each end) then put a bucking bar on top of the
rod and back riveted from the inside of the fuselage.
Worked slick now just stick some blue silicon in the
½ -3/8 inch holes originally drilled and we are off to
something else. Id be curious to see how others did
this????? Got a funny feeling this is another area
where builders will spend WAY TOO much time thinking
and not much time building. My suggestion just
drill the holes and PROGRESS!
Cliff Dow Jr,
Cdowjr@y...
Maine RV-7A Builder
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Author: jtanon@... Time: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:55 pm PST Link
What's Wrong with using strutural blind rivets in this spot?
John McD
Author: "robert_paisley" <robert@...> Time: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:43 pm PST Link
Hi Cliff,
I ran the drill all the way through the pan and the angle. A piece of
aluminum shim will fill the space between the parts and allow rivets
to go all the way through the assembly.
Robert Paisley
--- In RV7and7A@y..., Clifford Dow <cdowjr@y...> wrote:
> QB Rudder pedals
>
> When you get to the rudder pedals on the QB you will
> encounter the following problem: On the firewall you
> have what I will call a pan which sticks IN towards
> the cabin (located in the center upper section of the
> firewall think it provides clearance for the oil
> filter on the engine). You will find it's IN THE WAY
> when it comes to riveting the CENTER support for the
> rudder pedal system. I stewed on things while my two
> friends helping me tried to figure out what to do.
> Without giving them too much time I just ran a drill
> bit thought the pan - from the OUTSIDE of the
> fuselage a 3/8 1/2 inch bit being careful NOT to
> dig into the fuselage angle - DON"T JUST DRIVE THE BIT
> THROUGH - ONLY SINK IT SLIGHTLY (I ground it out a bit
> with a drummel grinder with a chain saw sharpening bit
> worked slick problem encountered was the cone
> shaped drill bit could not drill far without drilling
> into the fuselage angle (don't drill into it) the
> blunt end chain saw sharpening bit allowed me to open
> the hole left by the chain saw sharpening bit a
> blunt end bit) - and then inserted the rivets. Next
> I put a round rod in and set it on the rivet head
> (this was just a ½ inch rod about 2 inches long flat
> on each end) then put a bucking bar on top of the
> rod and back riveted from the inside of the fuselage.
> Worked slick now just stick some blue silicon in the
> ½ -3/8 inch holes originally drilled and we are off to
> something else. I'd be curious to see how others did
> this????? Got a funny feeling this is another area
> where builders will spend WAY TOO much time thinking
> and not much time building. My suggestion just
> drill the holes and PROGRESS!
> Cliff Dow Jr,
> Cdowjr@y...
> Maine RV-7A Builder
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Author: Clifford Dow <cdowjr@...> Time: Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:28 am PST Link
I never even thought of blind rivets - good idea,
however, having done it my way - i'd prefer to have
the bucked rivets.
--- jtanon@a... wrote:
> What's Wrong with using strutural blind rivets in
> this spot?
>
> John McD
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Author: "bandit1702" <bandit1702@...> Time: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:24 am PST Link
To Cliff and other RV7/7A QB builders,
While waiting for my QB I've been following your discussion regarding
the rudder pedals. From the preview plans, I can see the issue,
however, does the firewall recess already come installed on the QB
fuselage? I guess I thought that we had the option of installing the
recess or just a flat sheet if the recess wasn't going to be necessary
for a given engine installation. I WILL be using the recess and, if it
is already riveted to the firewall of the QB fuselage, was wondering
if using the structural blind rivets would be the appropriate solution
for this issue.
Thanx.
Victor
--- In RV7and7A@y..., "robert_paisley" <robert@p...> wrote:
> Hi Cliff,
> I ran the drill all the way through the pan and the angle. A piece
of
> aluminum shim will fill the space between the parts and allow rivets
> to go all the way through the assembly.
> Robert Paisley
>
> --- In RV7and7A@y..., Clifford Dow <cdowjr@y...> wrote:
> > QB Rudder pedals
> >
> > When you get to the rudder pedals on the QB you will
> > encounter the following problem: On the firewall you
> > have what I will call a pan which sticks IN towards
> > the cabin (located in the center upper section of the
> > firewall think it provides clearance for the oil
> > filter on the engine). You will find it's IN THE WAY
> > when it comes to riveting the CENTER support for the
> > rudder pedal system. I stewed on things while my two
> > friends helping me tried to figure out what to do.
> > Without giving them too much time I just ran a drill
> > bit thought the pan - from the OUTSIDE of the
> > fuselage a 3/8 1/2 inch bit being careful NOT to
> > dig into the fuselage angle - DON"T JUST DRIVE THE BIT
> > THROUGH - ONLY SINK IT SLIGHTLY (I ground it out a bit
> > with a drummel grinder with a chain saw sharpening bit
> > worked slick problem encountered was the cone
> > shaped drill bit could not drill far without drilling
> > into the fuselage angle (don't drill into it) the
> > blunt end chain saw sharpening bit allowed me to open
> > the hole left by the chain saw sharpening bit a
> > blunt end bit) - and then inserted the rivets. Next
> > I put a round rod in and set it on the rivet head
> > (this was just a ½ inch rod about 2 inches long flat
> > on each end) then put a bucking bar on top of the
> > rod and back riveted from the inside of the fuselage.
> > Worked slick now just stick some blue silicon in the
> > ½ -3/8 inch holes originally drilled and we are off to
> > something else. I'd be curious to see how others did
> > this????? Got a funny feeling this is another area
> > where builders will spend WAY TOO much time thinking
> > and not much time building. My suggestion just
> > drill the holes and PROGRESS!
> > Cliff Dow Jr,
> > Cdowjr@y...
> > Maine RV-7A Builder
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> > http://promo.yahoo.com/v
Author: Clifford Dow <cdowjr@...> Time: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:37 am PST Link
The recessed pan comes already installed in the QB.
Also, it is riveted right to the aluminum angle so I
didn't think removing it made any sense at all.
I think the perfect airplane would be one built
WITHOUT any blind rivets - i"m not fond of them. I'm
sure they would work there, but I'd either do it the
way Robert Paisley suggested or the way i suggested.
The gap was a little large on mine - between the side
of the angle and the pan sheet metal - so putting in
a spacer didn't sound as good - so I liked my method
best - just drill the half inch hole so you can get a
rivet in past the pan and then back rivet it from the
inside of the fuselage. When you drill throught the
pan - DON'T drill into the angle. The only hole
throught the angle should be the rivet size bit.
In reality it probably makes no difference, but I
bet from a structural strength point of view the
bucked rivets are much stronger.
Good luck.
cliff dow jr
cdowjr@y...
Maine RV-7A builder
--- bandit1702 <bandit1702@y...> wrote:
> To Cliff and other RV7/7A QB builders,
>
> While waiting for my QB I've been following your
> discussion regarding
> the rudder pedals. From the preview plans, I can see
> the issue,
> however, does the firewall recess already come
> installed on the QB
> fuselage? I guess I thought that we had the option
> of installing the
> recess or just a flat sheet if the recess wasn't
> going to be necessary
> for a given engine installation. I WILL be using the
> recess and, if it
> is already riveted to the firewall of the QB
> fuselage, was wondering
> if using the structural blind rivets would be the
> appropriate solution
> for this issue.
>
> Thanx.
>
> Victor
>
> --- In RV7and7A@y..., "robert_paisley" <robert@p...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Cliff,
> > I ran the drill all the way through the pan and
> the angle. A piece
> of
> > aluminum shim will fill the space between the
> parts and allow rivets
> > to go all the way through the assembly.
> > Robert Paisley
> >
> > --- In RV7and7A@y..., Clifford Dow <cdowjr@y...>
> wrote:
> > > QB Rudder pedals
> > >
> > > When you get to the rudder pedals on the QB you
> will
> > > encounter the following problem: On the
> firewall you
> > > have what I will call a pan which sticks IN
> towards
> > > the cabin (located in the center upper section
> of the
> > > firewall think it provides clearance for the
> oil
> > > filter on the engine). You will find it's IN
> THE WAY
> > > when it comes to riveting the CENTER support for
> the
> > > rudder pedal system. I stewed on things while
> my two
> > > friends helping me tried to figure out what to
> do.
> > > Without giving them too much time I just ran a
> drill
> > > bit thought the pan - from the OUTSIDE of the
> > > fuselage a 3/8 1/2 inch bit being careful
> NOT to
> > > dig into the fuselage angle - DON"T JUST DRIVE
> THE BIT
> > > THROUGH - ONLY SINK IT SLIGHTLY (I ground it out
> a bit
> > > with a drummel grinder with a chain saw
> sharpening bit
> > > worked slick problem encountered was the
> cone
> > > shaped drill bit could not drill far without
> drilling
> > > into the fuselage angle (don't drill into it)
> the
> > > blunt end chain saw sharpening bit allowed me to
> open
> > > the hole left by the chain saw sharpening bit
> a
> > > blunt end bit) - and then inserted the rivets.
> Next
> > > I put a round rod in and set it on the rivet
> head
> > > (this was just a ½ inch rod about 2 inches
> long flat
> > > on each end) then put a bucking bar on top of
> the
> > > rod and back riveted from the inside of the
> fuselage.
> > > Worked slick now just stick some blue silicon
> in the
> > > ½ -3/8 inch holes originally drilled and we are
> off to
> > > something else. I'd be curious to see how
> others did
> > > this????? Got a funny feeling this is another
> area
> > > where builders will spend WAY TOO much time
> thinking
> > > and not much time building. My suggestion
> just
> > > drill the holes and PROGRESS!
> > > Cliff Dow Jr,
> > > Cdowjr@y...
> > > Maine RV-7A Builder
> __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> > > http://promo.yahoo.com/v
__________________________________________________
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Author: Paul Besing <azpilot@...> Time: Wed Jan 16, 2002 11:41 am PST Link
I don't know about the -7, but I just ordered the -6
without the firewall recess, and then installed it
later. That clearly would be a problem area. I
remember putting in the recess and that rudder pedal
mount was very pesky. I would prefer to put the
recess in myself after the fact, though. It is not a
tough job. Maybe an hour.
=====
Paul Besing
RV-6A 197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
First Flight 7/22/01
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
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Author: jtanon@... Time: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:37 pm PST Link
Yes Robert,
I thought about that even before I read your reply. Called Van's and that's
what they recommend too. (Shim between the stiffner and the rudder brace,
rivet right through the firwall recess box) I'm going to put the brace
inboard of the stiffener to reduce the thickness of the shim needed.
John McD
Author: "robert_paisley" <robert@...> Time: Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:39 pm PST Link
That's what I did, put the rudder brace between the stiffener and
recess box. Only a thin shim is required to take up the rest of the
space.
Robert
--- In RV7and7A@y..., jtanon@a... wrote:
> Yes Robert,
>
> I thought about that even before I read your reply. Called Van's
and that's
> what they recommend too. (Shim between the stiffner and the rudder
brace,
> rivet right through the firwall recess box) I'm going to put the
brace
> inboard of the stiffener to reduce the thickness of the shim needed.
>
> John McD