Author: Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 12:13 pm PDT Link
I am beginning to make plans to learn to fly and to start building an
RV-7 and I was wondering if I should by pass on the standard 172 for a
training plane and get something that is a bit closer to the RV-7. To
me it seems the main differences that will make it a lot different to
fly are the fact that it is a tail wheel, it is a faster plane, a stick
instead of a yoke, and low wing vs high wing. Which of these things
would be important to look for in a trainer and does anyone have any
specific suggestions on an airplane?
--
Chris
N35° 20.492'
W97° 34.342'
Author: Doug Gray <dgra1233@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 3:06 pm PDT Link
A Citabria is about the only tailwheel aircraft commonly used for initial
training around my part of the world. You will firstly need to find a school
which has one available and that is willing to use it for initial training.
I can't say it will be more or less difficult as this would be a personal
thing and depends on your own progress. Instructors however may not have a
lot of experience with ab initio training in tailwheel these days and they
may be learning new teaching skills at the same time. Students I have seen
learning first up on tailwheel aircraft have definitely benefitted.
It my opinion it would be the preferred way, but you may not get a choice
due availability of instructors or aircraft.
Doug Gray
Sydney Australia
RV-6 Fuse
Author: "Joseph J. Hobbs" <jjhobbs@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 3:06 pm PDT Link
Chris - Just learn to fly WELL in a standard training aircraft - nosedragger or taildragger doesn't matter. Just be a good student of the art and craft of flying safely, and with precision. You will find that an RV7 will be the easiest taildragger to fly when the time comes.
Fact is all the pilots I know have flown in at least several aircraft (mosthave many types and certifications). I learned to fly in a Cessna 140, hadtime in 150s, 152s, 172s, 177Bs, 182s and owned a Cozy Mk3 canard for a while. I'm building my RV7 and expect that my flying skills will all apply. Just learn to fly well and everything else will be part of the process of becoming proficient in new aircraft as you go forward. Enjoy.
Joseph J. Hobbs
RV7 Fuselage in Phoenix, AZ
jjhobbs@u...
602-300-7258 cell #
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Woodhouse
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 12:00 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] learning to fly
I am beginning to make plans to learn to fly and to start building an
RV-7 and I was wondering if I should by pass on the standard 172 for a
training plane and get something that is a bit closer to the RV-7. To
me it seems the main differences that will make it a lot different to
fly are the fact that it is a tail wheel, it is a faster plane, a stick
instead of a yoke, and low wing vs high wing. Which of these things
would be important to look for in a trainer and does anyone have any
specific suggestions on an airplane?
--
Chris
N35° 20.492'
W97° 34.342'
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "bcollins747_1999" <bcollins@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 3:07 pm PDT Link
Train in a training aircraft. A 172 is fine. You wouldn't learn how
to drive in a Porsch.
Seriously, you're not learning how to fly a plane...you're actually
learning why a plane flies. You want to be able to feel the effects
of wind...and lift and drag and all that.
You'll be plenty challenged - PLENTY challenged - in the 172...the
last thing you need right now is a plane you can't slow down in time
to hit the numbers.
That will all come...you can transition to tailwheels later. You can
transition to complex and high performance planes later.
Right now, you just want to figure out how to fly...and the 172 is a
darned forgiving airplane. There's a reason for that.
Bob
St. Paul
--- In RV7and7A@y..., Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3@c...> wrote:
> I am beginning to make plans to learn to fly and to start building
an
> RV-7 and I was wondering if I should by pass on the standard 172
for a
> training plane and get something that is a bit closer to the RV-7.
To
> me it seems the main differences that will make it a lot different
to
> fly are the fact that it is a tail wheel, it is a faster plane, a
stick
> instead of a yoke, and low wing vs high wing. Which of these things
> would be important to look for in a trainer and does anyone have any
> specific suggestions on an airplane?
>
> --
> Chris
> N35° 20.492'
> W97° 34.342'
Author: Michael Murphy <michaelmurphy2562@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 3:07 pm PDT Link
I began my flying in a cessna 150, progressed to a 172 and then to a Diamond Katana. Although I haven't flown an RV, I suppose that the Diamond is very close because it has stick controls and bubble canopy. It isn't a taildragger but I would think that it is best to learn with a tri-gear and then check out in a taildragger. Also, the visibility in the Katana is far superior to any high wing that I've flown. That is the main reason that I have decided to go with an RV. That and SPEED! Hope I've helped.
Chris Woodhouse wrote:I am beginning to make plans to learn to fly and to start building an
RV-7 and I was wondering if I should by pass on the standard 172 for a
training plane and get something that is a bit closer to the RV-7. To
me it seems the main differences that will make it a lot different to
fly are the fact that it is a tail wheel, it is a faster plane, a stick
instead of a yoke, and low wing vs high wing. Which of these things
would be important to look for in a trainer and does anyone have any
specific suggestions on an airplane?
--
Chris
N35° 20.492'
W97° 34.342'
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Earning is fast and fun with Free Store Club! Get an online SUPER STORE FREE! Start saving BIG! Start earning BIG! It's NEW, FREE, and HOT!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 3:08 pm PDT Link
I am a fairly new pilot (<2 yrs & < 100 hours) so I may not be the best to answer this but I don't feel like working at the moment so I'll jump in anyway. I would think the only real difference that you will have to overcome going from the 172 to the RV-7 is the tailwheel. The differences betweenhigh and low wing airplanes is one of visibility more than flying, and thedifference between the stick and the yoke is nullified after you spend about 30 seconds flying one. Now the difference between a nose dragger and a tailwheel is plenty to worry about. There is a reason the FAA requires a logbook endorsement. If you learn in a nose wheel and then go out and try to fly a taildragger without instruction you WILL bend airplane parts.
If I could do it all over again I would go out and find a flight school that had a Citabria (or something similar) and take my primary training in that, but the tailwheel endorsement was not all that difficult to get. In either case you will want to get plenty of transition training before you takeoff in your very own RV-7!
In short (yeah right :-) I was where you are two years ago. I did my PSEL in a 172 last year and got my tailwheel endorsement in a Maule M5 just a few months ago. I intend to get some time in a Citabria that is at a school near my house over the next year or so and when my airplane is ready to flyI'll get some transition training from a qualified instructor and then decide whether I feel comfortable enough to do the first flight of my RV-7.
Remember I have not flown my RV and I don't have much experience so take these opinions for what they are worth which is probably about what you paid for them.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved)
http://www.myrv7.com
Fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Woodhouse
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 2:00 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] learning to fly
I am beginning to make plans to learn to fly and to start building an
RV-7 and I was wondering if I should by pass on the standard 172 for a
training plane and get something that is a bit closer to the RV-7. To
me it seems the main differences that will make it a lot different to
fly are the fact that it is a tail wheel, it is a faster plane, a stick
instead of a yoke, and low wing vs high wing. Which of these things
would be important to look for in a trainer and does anyone have any
specific suggestions on an airplane?
--
Chris
N35° 20.492'
W97° 34.342'
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: Paul Besing <pbesing@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 3:08 pm PDT Link
Don't worry about it. Get what you can to train in.
An RV is so easy to fly, that the transition aircraft
doesn't really make a difference. Now, if you could
get your training done in say a Cessna 140 or Cub,
then you could have the tailwheel done as well. Save
you a checkout.
Paul Besing
--- Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3@c...> wrote:
> I am beginning to make plans to learn to fly and to
> start building an
> RV-7 and I was wondering if I should by pass on the
> standard 172 for a
> training plane and get something that is a bit
> closer to the RV-7. To
> me it seems the main differences that will make it a
> lot different to
> fly are the fact that it is a tail wheel, it is a
> faster plane, a stick
> instead of a yoke, and low wing vs high wing. Which
> of these things
> would be important to look for in a trainer and does
> anyone have any
> specific suggestions on an airplane?
>
> --
> Chris
> N35° 20.492'
> W97° 34.342'
__________________________________________________
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Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
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Author: "jpiavis" <piavis@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 4:41 pm PDT Link
Hi Chris,
To add to this long list of replies, I couldn't resist. I have to
echo Phil's comments on the Citabria. You just can't go wrong here. A
Citabria is just about as easy a taildragger as you're going to find,
but still teaches you to actively use those little pedals on the
floor. Remember, you're going to learn to fly, not be a systems
operator right now, and any airplane with the little wheel in the
back is going to teach you a tremendous ammount of airmanship in the
pattern. Even a J-3 or Champ will serve as a great training aircraft.
Seriously though, if you have a chance to learn in a taildragger,
you'll never regret it.
Jim
-7 Elevators
--- In RV7and7A@y..., Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3@c...> wrote:
> I am beginning to make plans to learn to fly and to start building
an
> RV-7 and I was wondering if I should by pass on the standard 172
for a
> training plane and get something that is a bit closer to the RV-7.
To
> me it seems the main differences that will make it a lot different
to
> fly are the fact that it is a tail wheel, it is a faster plane, a
stick
> instead of a yoke, and low wing vs high wing. Which of these things
> would be important to look for in a trainer and does anyone have any
> specific suggestions on an airplane?
>
> --
> Chris
> N35° 20.492'
> W97° 34.342'
Author: "rvatorprr" <prichar@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 6:40 pm PDT Link
Chris, I learned in nosedraggers, and then flew, owned, and taught in
taildraggers like a Cub, Champ, and Stearman.
Bottom line: learn in a taildragger if you intend to own one. It is a
blast, but you must be completely comfortable with one in all
conditions, especially for those cross country flights where the
surface winds seems to pick up while enroute.
Taildragger flying is by far the most challenging flying I've done as
far as stick and rudder. The experience will fine tune every skill.
The make and model is not as important as the basic skill set, upon
which you can build.
Good flying.
/Paul
Author: "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 9:34 pm PDT Link
Jim,
I was doing fine with your response until you said a tail dragger is going to make a "tremendous difference in the amount of airmanship in the pattern". A tail dragger will no doubt get your feet working better on the ground, and some of that may even translate to using them to make better coordinated turns in flight, but your statement seems a bit of a stretch. Nose dragger pilots, with decent instruction, can learn to use those little peddles too! Having a little wheel in the back will not teach anyone much about pattern work. Sorry, couldn't let it go without my .02.
----- Original Message -----
From: jpiavis
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 3:45 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: learning to fly
Hi Chris,
To add to this long list of replies, I couldn't resist. I have to
echo Phil's comments on the Citabria. You just can't go wrong here. A
Citabria is just about as easy a taildragger as you're going to find,
but still teaches you to actively use those little pedals on the
floor. Remember, you're going to learn to fly, not be a systems
operator right now, and any airplane with the little wheel in the
back is going to teach you a tremendous ammount of airmanship in the
pattern. Even a J-3 or Champ will serve as a great training aircraft.
Seriously though, if you have a chance to learn in a taildragger,
you'll never regret it.
Jim
-7 Elevators
--- In RV7and7A@y..., Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3@c...> wrote:
> I am beginning to make plans to learn to fly and to start building
an
> RV-7 and I was wondering if I should by pass on the standard 172
for a
> training plane and get something that is a bit closer to the RV-7.
To
> me it seems the main differences that will make it a lot different
to
> fly are the fact that it is a tail wheel, it is a faster plane, a
stick
> instead of a yoke, and low wing vs high wing. Which of these things
> would be important to look for in a trainer and does anyone have any
> specific suggestions on an airplane?
>
> --
> Chris
> N35° 20.492'
> W97° 34.342'
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "David Domeier" <davidd010@...> Time: Mon Oct 7, 2002 9:35 pm PDT Link
re "Seriously though, if you have a chance to learn in a
taildragger, you'll never regret it."
I don't. As a matter of pure coincidence, I got a tail wheel
endorsement today (just for the heck of it, having sold my nose
dragger in favor of paying for the RV project and needed
something interesting to do). I'll fly it (a Citabria) again, just
for the heck of it, but it is not the end all of aviation.
Flying a tail dragger is no different than flying any other airplane.
Up is up and down is down. But taxi, take off and landing is
another matter. One can best describe it as sitting on a tricycle
with the seat backward and going backward. It is a completely
unstable situation. Whoever invented the tail dragger was a
pervert. The Wright Flyer had a nose skid. Those guys knew
what's best.
Flying a Super Cub in the bush of Alaska is about the only
reason to have a tail dragger. It has practical application.
Throttly forward, tail up, stick back and the machine is flying, all
in about 250 feet.
The RV's can't do that. In fact the "A" model will get off a rough
field quicker than the tail dragger because the tail wheel is glued
to the ground creating drag while the "A" model is unloading the
nose and moving out.
OK. Enough of this controversial stuff. Go get your license quick
from a good flight school and you'll do well in any airplane.
Checking out in a tail dragger is no big deal and you'll be able to
do it if you decide to go that route.
dd
7A
Author: "jpiavis" <piavis@...> Time: Tue Oct 8, 2002 10:17 am PDT Link
Randy,
OK, I admit, a bit of a stretch...but as a matter of general
observation of pattern procedures at the local airfields (several
here in the SF Bay Area), it seems those flying older classics and
experimentals fly the tighter patterns, have better situational
awareness, and are somewhat more courteous in the pattern. I'm not
sure if this is a function of recent training techniques, but I
really hate being #2 behind the 172 on a B-52 sized pattern...
Important thing is just find a good school or better yet, a great
instructor. All these things work the same way; stick forward, trees
get bigger. Stick back, trees get smaller. Stick back more, trees get
bigger again...
Now back to -7 related stuff and we'll leave this drivel for the
Matronics list <g>.
--- In RV7and7A@y..., "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers@a...> wrote:
> Jim,
> I was doing fine with your response until you said a tail
dragger is going to make a "tremendous difference in the amount of
airmanship in the pattern". A tail dragger will no doubt get your
feet working better on the ground, and some of that may even
translate to using them to make better coordinated turns in flight,
but your statement seems a bit of a stretch. Nose dragger pilots,
with decent instruction, can learn to use those little peddles too!
Having a little wheel in the back will not teach anyone much about
pattern work. Sorry, couldn't let it go without my .02.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jpiavis
> To: RV7and7A@y...
> Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 3:45 PM
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: learning to fly
> Hi Chris,
>
> To add to this long list of replies, I couldn't resist. I have to
> echo Phil's comments on the Citabria. You just can't go wrong
here. A
> Citabria is just about as easy a taildragger as you're going to
find,
> but still teaches you to actively use those little pedals on the
> floor. Remember, you're going to learn to fly, not be a systems
> operator right now, and any airplane with the little wheel in the
> back is going to teach you a tremendous ammount of airmanship in
the
> pattern. Even a J-3 or Champ will serve as a great training
aircraft.
> Seriously though, if you have a chance to learn in a taildragger,
> you'll never regret it.
>
> Jim
> -7 Elevators
>
> --- In RV7and7A@y..., Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3@c...> wrote:
> > I am beginning to make plans to learn to fly and to start
building
> an
> > RV-7 and I was wondering if I should by pass on the standard
172
> for a
> > training plane and get something that is a bit closer to the RV-
7.
> To
> > me it seems the main differences that will make it a lot
different
> to
> > fly are the fact that it is a tail wheel, it is a faster plane,
a
> stick
> > instead of a yoke, and low wing vs high wing. Which of these
things
> > would be important to look for in a trainer and does anyone
have any
> > specific suggestions on an airplane?
> >
> > --
> > Chris
> > N35° 20.492'
> > W97° 34.342'
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "bcollins747_1999" <bcollins@...> Time: Tue Oct 8, 2002 1:03 pm PDT Link
> Important thing is just find a good school or better yet, a great
> instructor. All these things work the same way; stick forward,
trees
> get bigger. Stick back, trees get smaller. Stick back more, trees
get
> bigger again...
This reminds me, Randy. Pick up a copy of "Stick and Rudder." Once
you understand nuances, especially when you're in final, like the
fact that your stick is your SPEED control and your throttle is your
altitude control...and that at a certain time in order to go up you
have to point the nose down....the rest is easy. If more people would
read the darned book, there'd be a lot fewer stalling accidents.
With RVs, and many other planes, you have less time to make mistakes
and although the RV is said to be a forgiving airplane, the best
thing you can do while learning is to have time to do things.
BC
Author: "Bill Cloughley" <claw2265@...> Time: Tue Oct 8, 2002 2:12 pm PDT Link
Chris,
Since you are building a taildragger, I'd strongly recommend you
learn to fly on a taildragger - a Citabria, Champ, Cub, etc. Solo in
a taildragger.
Flying a taildragger requires a little more piloting skill & effort
on takeoff & landing. In a nutshell, you must use the rudder a lot
more than in a tricycle gear. But a student pilot doesn't know, so
you just do it. For a fledgling pilot, learning to fly a taildragger
doesn't require anymore training than if you were starting on a
tricycle landing gear.
The reverse isn't true, however. A tricycle landing gear pilot will
take 8 to 15 hours of training to transition to tailwheel! It
personally took me 15 hours of landings to transition!
Bottom line: it's a lot easier to go from taildragger to tricycle
than it is tricycle to taildragger. If you have the opportunity, get
your initial training in taildraggers.
Whichever way you go, know that taildraggers are fun! Look at all
the "sport" planes at Oshkosh, Sun N' Fun and fly-ins: RVs,
Citabrias, Cubs, Stearmans, vintage, Pitts, etc. You'll be glad you
built one! You'll proudly say, "I fly a taildragger".
Author: "Jon Baker" <jon@...> Time: Tue Oct 8, 2002 4:56 pm PDT Link
Chris,
If you haven't even started flying, the LAST thing you should be
worring about is how you're going to transition to your future RV.
You can't imagine how much more difficult learning to fly is than you
think it is. Transitioning will be a joke in comparison.
But I do have some advice on the trainer. I bought a nice mid-time
Cherokee-140 to learn in and sold it two years later for more than I
paid for it. In fact, I made enough to pay for my training. I
suppose you could do the same with a Cessa, but Cherokee's are a lot
cheaper for some unknown reason. They're a lot easier to fly, too,
even though they land a little faster. In fact, the landing airspeed
numbers are even very close to the RV's. And, of course, they're low
wing. I don't know how a beginner learns to fly a square pattern in
a Cessna -- the wing blocks your view every time you turn.
Jon.
--- In RV7and7A@y..., Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3@c...> wrote:
> I am beginning to make plans to learn to fly and to start building
an
> RV-7 and I was wondering if I should by pass on the standard 172
for a
> training plane and get something that is a bit closer to the RV-7.
To
> me it seems the main differences that will make it a lot different
to
> fly are the fact that it is a tail wheel, it is a faster plane, a
stick
> instead of a yoke, and low wing vs high wing. Which of these things
> would be important to look for in a trainer and does anyone have any
> specific suggestions on an airplane?
>
> --
> Chris
> N35° 20.492'
> W97° 34.342'