Author: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@...> Time: Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:42 pm PDT Link
Somebody a week or two ago asked about SAP's SL-360 engine kit. Apparently Superior is not selling the kit anymore to the public but they still sell it to their engine shops. I talked to several people at Superior last week and here is what I have found. You can still get the kit, but a few things have changed.. First it now comes with all the accessories, mags, harness, plugs, starter, fuel system, carb. The price is higher than it was ($18,400) which is really just a reflection of the accessories. I bet if you deleted them all the price would be lower than it was.
I found that the engine shops only charge $1500 dollars to put the engine together for you and this is the $19,900 price that made the news last week. Yes this is about $3000 cheaper than it was a month ago. Everybody go buy one for Christmas and then they will get cheaper still? :-)
The warranty for the kit is 1 year on the parts from date of install (one shop told me this date was the first time you start it) and both engine shops that I talked to said the warranty for the assembled engine was 3 years from date of install (same shop same date definition). Both shops I talked to would run the engine in, one said that they would run it in until the rings seated. The other seemed really easy to work with and would probably do the same. Hard to beat for $1500.
Both shops would work with you on installing alternate induction systems, ignition systems, different starters, etc... The two shops that I talked to were Aerosport Power in Canada and America's Aircraft Engines in Tulsa, OK. I am sure that the other shops that Superior works with are great too it's just that these are the two that I talked to. Oh Superior will build you an engine too, but they are in Texas so I would have to pay sales tax that is why I called Tulsa. Everybody I talked to was very helpful.
I am not trying to be a salesman I'm just trying to let people know what I found out. I know this whole engine choice thing can be very frustrating, so there you have it sport's fans.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers@...> Time: Mon Oct 21, 2002 5:36 pm PDT Link
Phil,
I notice you call it an SL-360. Can you tell me the difference between it and the XP 360? Was that just a typing mistake or am I missing something? I also talked to Aerosport about an 0360. They have been selling them at the 19,900 price for awhile I guess. By the time you add electronic ignition on one side and the Airflow Performance fuel injection you get real close to the $24,000 mark. Buy a new Hartzel C2YK from Van's for $4975 and the firewall forward kit from Van's for another $4600 and you end up at around 33.5K, ouch!
For comparison I had to add up all the items for the Eggenfellner Subaru package. With all the options, including supercharger it goes for about $21,000. Quinti hub and Warp drive blades for $5640 brings it to $26,640. Then the electrical system needs to be considered as it is a bit more complicated since the Sube needs electricity to keep running. Hard to put a price on that. Not to mention that they have not been flying on RVs much yet and the longest flying Glastar has about 300 hrs on it. I have flown in that particular Glastar and it performed quite well and the owner is happy.
As you can see I am going through this same decision process and it has been driving me nuts. At the moment a used Lycoming is looking pretty good.
Just some more numbers to throw out there.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Birkelbach
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Superior Air Parts SL-360
Somebody a week or two ago asked about SAP's SL-360 engine kit. Apparently Superior is not selling the kit anymore to the public but they still sell it to their engine shops. I talked to several people at Superior last week and here is what I have found. You can still get the kit, but a few things have changed.. First it now comes with all the accessories, mags, harness, plugs, starter, fuel system, carb. The price is higher than it was ($18,400) which is really just a reflection of the accessories. I bet if you deleted them all the price would be lower than it was.
I found that the engine shops only charge $1500 dollars to put the engine together for you and this is the $19,900 price that made the news last week. Yes this is about $3000 cheaper than it was a month ago. Everybody go buy one for Christmas and then they will get cheaper still? :-)
The warranty for the kit is 1 year on the parts from date of install (one shop told me this date was the first time you start it) and both engine shops that I talked to said the warranty for the assembled engine was 3 years from date of install (same shop same date definition). Both shops I talked to would run the engine in, one said that they would run it in until the rings seated. The other seemed really easy to work with and would probably do the same. Hard to beat for $1500.
Both shops would work with you on installing alternate induction systems, ignition systems, different starters, etc... The two shops that I talked to were Aerosport Power in Canada and America's Aircraft Engines in Tulsa, OK. I am sure that the other shops that Superior works with are great too it's just that these are the two that I talked to. Oh Superior will build you an engine too, but they are in Texas so I would have to pay sales tax that is why I called Tulsa. Everybody I talked to was very helpful.
I am not trying to be a salesman I'm just trying to let people know what I found out. I know this whole engine choice thing can be very frustrating, so there you have it sport's fans.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "flightwork" <flightwork@...> Time: Tue Oct 22, 2002 5:32 am PDT Link
--- In RV7and7A@y..., "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers@a...> wrote:
> Phil,
> I notice you call it an SL-360. Can you tell me the difference
between it and the XP 360? Was that just a typing mistake or am I
missing something? I also talked to Aerosport about an 0360. They
have been selling them at the 19,900 price for awhile I guess. By the
time you add electronic ignition on one side and the Airflow
Performance fuel injection you get real close to the $24,000 mark.
Buy a new Hartzel C2YK from Van's for $4975 and the firewall forward
kit from Van's for another $4600 and you end up at around 33.5K, ouch!
> For comparison I had to add up all the items for the
Eggenfellner Subaru package. With all the options, including
supercharger it goes for about $21,000. Quinti hub and Warp drive
blades for $5640 brings it to $26,640. Then the electrical system
needs to be considered as it is a bit more complicated since the Sube
needs electricity to keep running. Hard to put a price on that. Not
to mention that they have not been flying on RVs much yet and the
longest flying Glastar has about 300 hrs on it. I have flown in that
particular Glastar and it performed quite well and the owner is happy.
> As you can see I am going through this same decision process
and it has been driving me nuts. At the moment a used Lycoming is
looking pretty good.
> Just some more numbers to throw out there.
> Randy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Phil Birkelbach
> To: RV7and7A@y...
> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 3:34 PM
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Superior Air Parts SL-360
> Somebody a week or two ago asked about SAP's SL-360 engine kit.
Apparently Superior is not selling the kit anymore to the public but
they still sell it to their engine shops. I talked to several people
at Superior last week and here is what I have found. You can still
get the kit, but a few things have changed.. First it now comes with
all the accessories, mags, harness, plugs, starter, fuel system,
carb. The price is higher than it was ($18,400) which is really just
a reflection of the accessories. I bet if you deleted them all the
price would be lower than it was.
>
> I found that the engine shops only charge $1500 dollars to put
the engine together for you and this is the $19,900 price that made
the news last week. Yes this is about $3000 cheaper than it was a
month ago. Everybody go buy one for Christmas and then they will get
cheaper still? :-)
>
> The warranty for the kit is 1 year on the parts from date of
install (one shop told me this date was the first time you start it)
and both engine shops that I talked to said the warranty for the
assembled engine was 3 years from date of install (same shop same
date definition). Both shops I talked to would run the engine in,
one said that they would run it in until the rings seated. The other
seemed really easy to work with and would probably do the same. Hard
to beat for $1500.
>
> Both shops would work with you on installing alternate induction
systems, ignition systems, different starters, etc... The two shops
that I talked to were Aerosport Power in Canada and America's
Aircraft Engines in Tulsa, OK. I am sure that the other shops that
Superior works with are great too it's just that these are the two
that I talked to. Oh Superior will build you an engine too, but they
are in Texas so I would have to pay sales tax that is why I called
Tulsa. Everybody I talked to was very helpful.
>
> I am not trying to be a salesman I'm just trying to let people
know what I found out. I know this whole engine choice thing can be
very frustrating, so there you have it sport's fans.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
> http://www.myrv7.com
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
Hey Guys
Sort of went through the same realization/evaluation on the engine
deal late last year into early this year. Talked to Bart at OSH 2002
and thought about buying the sl-360 but hopped up version will only
probably produce around 190 hp, he's got another version using a
Lycoming crank with counterweights for 200 hp but a lot extra $$$.
Lost interest in the subaru because only he was using used engines
and another RV-6A builder in Ft Worth area who placed a deposit on
the subaru engine but with drew his deposit because Jan was expecting
buyer to share his liability issues. RV-6A builder bought an engine
from Bart instead.
At OSH, I had a ride in Powersport Aviation's Rotary Aircraft Engine
powered RV-6A demonstrator and was truly an awesome ride. Put a
deposit on the engine the next day and haven't regretted the
decision. They have my motor mount from the RV-7 finish kit for
modification and expect delivery late December or early January. I
first saw their FWF package at OSH 2000 and was impressed with what
they had to offer:
RE-215 engine has 215 hp guaranteed(typical engine dynos at 230 hp),
watercooled, true FADEC fuel and electronic ignition system (dual
ECU), gear box capable of 300 hp, burns auto gas or 100LL, a
crankshaft that would be impossible to break (I bet Lycoming wish
they had one), 1000 hours 100% factory supported engine warranty (not
commonly found in aviation) and a 3-blade, CS MT propeller.
After the awesome ride, it wasn't a hard decision to make having
flown Van's RV-7 demonstrator last fall, my RV-7 will out perform the
factory aircraft in all areas. Extra hp =extra trust = more
performance every time.
regards,
Tom Parks, Finish Kit, N620CF reserved
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@...> Time: Tue Oct 22, 2002 7:54 am PDT Link
Hey Randy,
The SL-360 is simply the part number of the kit version. If you build it it's SL- if they build it it's XP-
I didn't want this to turn into the old Lycoming/Subaru debate but while we are comparing numbers don't stop with just the cost of installation, call the insurance company and find out what the difference will be.
Godspeed,
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Crothers
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] Superior Air Parts SL-360
Phil,
I notice you call it an SL-360. Can you tell me the difference between it and the XP 360? Was that just a typing mistake or am I missing something? I also talked to Aerosport about an 0360. They have been selling them at the 19,900 price for awhile I guess. By the time you add electronic ignition on one side and the Airflow Performance fuel injection you get real close to the $24,000 mark. Buy a new Hartzel C2YK from Van's for $4975 and the firewall forward kit from Van's for another $4600 and you end up at around 33.5K, ouch!
For comparison I had to add up all the items for the Eggenfellner Subaru package. With all the options, including supercharger it goes for about $21,000. Quinti hub and Warp drive blades for $5640 brings it to $26,640. Then the electrical system needs to be considered as it is a bit more complicated since the Sube needs electricity to keep running. Hard to put a price on that. Not to mention that they have not been flying on RVs much yet and the longest flying Glastar has about 300 hrs on it. I have flown in that particular Glastar and it performed quite well and the owner is happy.
As you can see I am going through this same decision process and it has been driving me nuts. At the moment a used Lycoming is looking pretty good.
Just some more numbers to throw out there.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Birkelbach
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Superior Air Parts SL-360
Somebody a week or two ago asked about SAP's SL-360 engine kit. Apparently Superior is not selling the kit anymore to the public but they still sell it to their engine shops. I talked to several people at Superior last week and here is what I have found. You can still get the kit, but a few things have changed.. First it now comes with all the accessories, mags, harness, plugs, starter, fuel system, carb. The price is higher than it was ($18,400) which is really just a reflection of the accessories. I bet if you deleted them all the price would be lower than it was.
I found that the engine shops only charge $1500 dollars to put the engine together for you and this is the $19,900 price that made the news last week. Yes this is about $3000 cheaper than it was a month ago. Everybody go buy one for Christmas and then they will get cheaper still? :-)
The warranty for the kit is 1 year on the parts from date of install (one shop told me this date was the first time you start it) and both engine shops that I talked to said the warranty for the assembled engine was 3 years from date of install (same shop same date definition). Both shops I talked to would run the engine in, one said that they would run it in until the rings seated. The other seemed really easy to work with and would probably do the same. Hard to beat for $1500.
Both shops would work with you on installing alternate induction systems, ignition systems, different starters, etc... The two shops that I talked to were Aerosport Power in Canada and America's Aircraft Engines in Tulsa, OK. I am sure that the other shops that Superior works with are great too it's just that these are the two that I talked to. Oh Superior will build you an engine too, but they are in Texas so I would have to pay sales tax that is why I called Tulsa. Everybody I talked to was very helpful.
I am not trying to be a salesman I'm just trying to let people know what I found out. I know this whole engine choice thing can be very frustrating, so there you have it sport's fans.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: Miller Robert <rmiller3@...> Time: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:26 pm PDT Link
Could you explain? At present, I am planning on using the E-Soob. How
does Jan's arrangement share his liability issues with his customers?
Thanks you.
Robert
> Phil,
> >>>>snip<<<<
> Lost interest in the subaru because only he was using used engines
> and another RV-6A builder in Ft Worth area who placed a deposit on
> the subaru engine but with drew his deposit because Jan was expecting
> buyer to share his liability issues. RV-6A builder bought an engine
> from Bart instead.
>>>>snip<<<<
> regards,
> Tom Parks, Finish Kit, N620CF reserved
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "h46tobin1970" <basfordt@...> Time: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:52 pm PDT Link
Phil,
Not to sound rude or anything, but search the archives on your
liability question. Earlier this year there was a huge debate on
Jan's liability policy, or lack of one.
Tobin Basford
RV-7QB
Milton FL
--- In RV7and7A@y..., Miller Robert <rmiller3@e...> wrote:
> Could you explain? At present, I am planning on using the E-Soob.
How
> does Jan's arrangement share his liability issues with his
customers?
> Thanks you.
> Robert
>
> > Phil,
>
> > >>>>snip<<<<
>
> > Lost interest in the subaru because only he was using used engines
> > and another RV-6A builder in Ft Worth area who placed a deposit on
> > the subaru engine but with drew his deposit because Jan was
expecting
> > buyer to share his liability issues. RV-6A builder bought an
engine
> > from Bart instead.
>
> >>>>snip<<<<
>
> > regards,
> > Tom Parks, Finish Kit, N620CF reserved
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]