Author: "Joseph F. Giallo, II" <jgiallo@...> Time: Tue Jun 3, 2003 8:48 pm PDT Link
At what point does one rivet the F770 side skins and bottom skins to the
firewall flange? The side and bottom skins have been dimpled and are
temporarily secured with pop rivets to the firewall flange. The written
instructions imply that the riveting is done before the "rolling over the
canoe" step but it seems odd that this wasn't done yet.
It also appears that a thin layer of proseal was applied between the bottom
skin and bottom firewall flange but this has not been done between the side
skins and firewall flange. I recall reading somewhere that you're supposed
to use proseal to create a vapor barrier between the engine compartment and
cockpit but I can't seem to locate the reference at the moment.
I'm assuming that one needs to use proseal to complete the barrier around
the firewall prior to riveting - any guidance from the group on when/how to
proseal/rivet the firewall flange to the skins is appreciated.
Regards,
Joe
7A QB N813MJ reserved
Author: "Randy Crothers" <rnvcrothers@...> Time: Wed Jun 4, 2003 3:53 am PDT Link
Joe, I can't speak with any authority on this, but I have been holding off
on riveting the firewall flange until I know for sure how I will be
attaching my cowl. I have been treating the firewall flange as one of those
areas you rivet when you absolutely have to, not before. As for the proseal
it sounds like a nice way to get a seal, I hope it is not real important as
mine does not have it. Those skins mate up nice and tight, I think that
makes a good seal without any thing added. I assume you fuse is a QB and it
came with the proseal. I know some builders will proseal ALL such joints for
added strength.
Anyway the main point is you need to consider is cowl attachment methods
as in the hinge treatment or maybe the Skybolt fasteners which require a
longer flange to be added on to the existing flange. I hope some others will
chime in with a better answer.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph F. Giallo, II" <jgiallo@m...>
To: "RV7and7A (E-mail)" <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:35 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] QB7A fuse assembly question
> At what point does one rivet the F770 side skins and bottom skins to the
> firewall flange? The side and bottom skins have been dimpled and are
> temporarily secured with pop rivets to the firewall flange. The written
> instructions imply that the riveting is done before the "rolling over the
> canoe" step but it seems odd that this wasn't done yet.
>
> It also appears that a thin layer of proseal was applied between the
bottom
> skin and bottom firewall flange but this has not been done between the
side
> skins and firewall flange. I recall reading somewhere that you're supposed
> to use proseal to create a vapor barrier between the engine compartment
and
> cockpit but I can't seem to locate the reference at the moment.
>
> I'm assuming that one needs to use proseal to complete the barrier around
> the firewall prior to riveting - any guidance from the group on when/how
to
> proseal/rivet the firewall flange to the skins is appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe
> 7A QB N813MJ reserved
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Wed Jun 4, 2003 3:53 am PDT Link
FWIW, I'm shortly about to hang my engine and finish wiring, and I still
haven't riveted a single hole at the firewall flange. It's still clecoed.
I'm waiting until I work on the cowling (hinges and camlocks) before
bothering.
I wish I knew about the proseal-the-flanges thing when I first assembled the
canoe, but my plan now is to spread the skin away from the firewall flange
as well as possible and dab a bead of proseal in there right before riveting
the cowling fasteners on.
I guess my generic advice would be to proseal the flange early -- i.e. when
you're assembling the fuselage for riveting in the first place (doesn't
apply to QBers), but to wait until you know what type of cowling fasteners
you'll use before doing any dimpling/riveting.
Hope this helps,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph F. Giallo, II" <jgiallo@m...>
To: "RV7and7A (E-mail)" <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:35 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] QB7A fuse assembly question
> At what point does one rivet the F770 side skins and bottom skins to the
> firewall flange? The side and bottom skins have been dimpled and are
> temporarily secured with pop rivets to the firewall flange. The written
> instructions imply that the riveting is done before the "rolling over the
> canoe" step but it seems odd that this wasn't done yet.
>
> It also appears that a thin layer of proseal was applied between the
bottom
> skin and bottom firewall flange but this has not been done between the
side
> skins and firewall flange. I recall reading somewhere that you're supposed
> to use proseal to create a vapor barrier between the engine compartment
and
> cockpit but I can't seem to locate the reference at the moment.
>
> I'm assuming that one needs to use proseal to complete the barrier around
> the firewall prior to riveting - any guidance from the group on when/how
to
> proseal/rivet the firewall flange to the skins is appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe
> 7A QB N813MJ reserved
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Mike Allardyce" <mallardyce@...> Time: Wed Jun 4, 2003 3:53 am PDT Link
Those holes are also used for the cowl hinges, so to answer the
question, they will be riveted when you fit the cowl.
Mike
RV7A Flying
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph F. Giallo, II"
<jgiallo@m...> wrote:
> At what point does one rivet the F770 side skins and bottom skins
to the
> firewall flange? The side and bottom skins have been dimpled and are
> temporarily secured with pop rivets to the firewall flange. The
written
> instructions imply that the riveting is done before the "rolling
over the
> canoe" step but it seems odd that this wasn't done yet.
>
> It also appears that a thin layer of proseal was applied between
the bottom
> skin and bottom firewall flange but this has not been done between
the side
> skins and firewall flange. I recall reading somewhere that you're
supposed
> to use proseal to create a vapor barrier between the engine
compartment and
> cockpit but I can't seem to locate the reference at the moment.
>
> I'm assuming that one needs to use proseal to complete the barrier
around
> the firewall prior to riveting - any guidance from the group on
when/how to
> proseal/rivet the firewall flange to the skins is appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe
> 7A QB N813MJ reserved
Author: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@...> Time: Wed Jun 4, 2003 6:01 am PDT Link
Gentlemen
I have been looking for an opportunity to talk about cowl fasteners.
This seems like a good lead in.
Has anyone experience with the Skybolts.
I am about to install the firewall to cowl Skybolt camlocks.
What's the consensus on material thickness to install the receiving
parts into.
I am intending to use the camlocks instead of the hinges on the
firewall joint.
cary rhodes
-
-- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
> FWIW, I'm shortly about to hang my engine and finish wiring, and I
still
> haven't riveted a single hole at the firewall flange. It's still
clecoed.
> I'm waiting until I work on the cowling (hinges and camlocks) before
> bothering.
>
> I wish I knew about the proseal-the-flanges thing when I first
assembled the
> canoe, but my plan now is to spread the skin away from the firewall
flange
> as well as possible and dab a bead of proseal in there right before
riveting
> the cowling fasteners on.
>
> I guess my generic advice would be to proseal the flange early --
i.e. when
> you're assembling the fuselage for riveting in the first place
(doesn't
> apply to QBers), but to wait until you know what type of cowling
fasteners
> you'll use before doing any dimpling/riveting.
>
> Hope this helps,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph F. Giallo, II" <jgiallo@m...>
> To: "RV7and7A (E-mail)" <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:35 PM
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] QB7A fuse assembly question
> > At what point does one rivet the F770 side skins and bottom skins
to the
> > firewall flange? The side and bottom skins have been dimpled and
are
> > temporarily secured with pop rivets to the firewall flange. The
written
> > instructions imply that the riveting is done before the "rolling
over the
> > canoe" step but it seems odd that this wasn't done yet.
> >
> > It also appears that a thin layer of proseal was applied between
the
> bottom
> > skin and bottom firewall flange but this has not been done
between the
> side
> > skins and firewall flange. I recall reading somewhere that you're
supposed
> > to use proseal to create a vapor barrier between the engine
compartment
> and
> > cockpit but I can't seem to locate the reference at the moment.
> >
> > I'm assuming that one needs to use proseal to complete the
barrier around
> > the firewall prior to riveting - any guidance from the group on
when/how
> to
> > proseal/rivet the firewall flange to the skins is appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Joe
> > 7A QB N813MJ reserved
> > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> > www.vansaircraft.net
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Joseph F. Giallo, II" <jgiallo@...> Time: Wed Jun 4, 2003 6:02 am PDT Link
Thanks to all those that replied to the attached - as usual there are always
knowledgeable folks on the list willing to help out.
Regards,
Joe
QB 7A
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph F. Giallo, II [mailto:jgiallo@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 11:36 PM
To: RV7and7A (E-mail)
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] QB7A fuse assembly question
At what point does one rivet the F770 side skins and bottom skins to the
firewall flange? The side and bottom skins have been dimpled and are
temporarily secured with pop rivets to the firewall flange. The written
instructions imply that the riveting is done before the "rolling over the
canoe" step but it seems odd that this wasn't done yet.
It also appears that a thin layer of proseal was applied between the
bottom
skin and bottom firewall flange but this has not been done between the
side
skins and firewall flange. I recall reading somewhere that you're supposed
to use proseal to create a vapor barrier between the engine compartment
and
cockpit but I can't seem to locate the reference at the moment.
I'm assuming that one needs to use proseal to complete the barrier around
the firewall prior to riveting - any guidance from the group on when/how
to
proseal/rivet the firewall flange to the skins is appreciated.
Regards,
Joe
7A QB N813MJ reserved
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "David Domeier" <davidd010@...> Time: Wed Jun 4, 2003 6:02 am PDT Link
Joe,
Almost all of the holes you have clecoed get filled with cowling
hinge rivets. A few don't and can be identified on the plan rivet
drawings by their size.
I cut the firewall hinge to length and installed it sometime ago. I
could not think of a reason not to. After the engine is installed
and the cowling is trimmed, it is a simple matter of pinning the
cowl portion of the hinge in place and match drill to the cowling.
As near as I can tell, the firewall half of the hinge has to go it first
anyhow so, for better or worse, mine is in.
Besides, while waiting for an engine, the fuselage has been
painted and those holes had to be filled to do that. I was not
aware of the pro seal technique in that area so mine is without
as are many others for sure.
dd
7A N707DD
Subaru
Author: "Doug Jones" <dljinia@...> Time: Wed Jun 4, 2003 6:48 am PDT Link
Cary,
The individual that won best of show (or whatever the title was) at
the RV forum in Minneapolis last weekend had these on his cowl. I'm
not certain of his name.... think it was Russ ??? His material
looked much thicker than .063, but less than 1/8th. He purchased
this aluminum from a fire engine manufacturer (: . He's the one that
has the retractable steps as well. Very nice individual to talk to
and I'm certain he would provide any info he could. Someone from the
Minneapolis area chime in and let Cary know who and how to get in
touch with this guy.
Doug Worlds worst with names
http://www.oncloud7.com/rv7.htm
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@y...> wrote:
> Gentlemen
>
> I have been looking for an opportunity to talk about cowl
fasteners.
> This seems like a good lead in.
>
> Has anyone experience with the Skybolts.
>
> I am about to install the firewall to cowl Skybolt camlocks.
>
> What's the consensus on material thickness to install the receiving
> parts into.
>
> I am intending to use the camlocks instead of the hinges on the
> firewall joint.
>
> cary rhodes
>
> -
> -- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
> > FWIW, I'm shortly about to hang my engine and finish wiring, and
I
> still
> > haven't riveted a single hole at the firewall flange. It's still
> clecoed.
> > I'm waiting until I work on the cowling (hinges and camlocks)
before
> > bothering.
> >
> > I wish I knew about the proseal-the-flanges thing when I first
> assembled the
> > canoe, but my plan now is to spread the skin away from the
firewall
> flange
> > as well as possible and dab a bead of proseal in there right
before
> riveting
> > the cowling fasteners on.
> >
> > I guess my generic advice would be to proseal the flange early --
> i.e. when
> > you're assembling the fuselage for riveting in the first place
> (doesn't
> > apply to QBers), but to wait until you know what type of cowling
> fasteners
> > you'll use before doing any dimpling/riveting.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joseph F. Giallo, II" <jgiallo@m...>
> > To: "RV7and7A (E-mail)" <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:35 PM
> > Subject: [RV7Yahoo] QB7A fuse assembly question
> > > At what point does one rivet the F770 side skins and bottom
skins
> to the
> > > firewall flange? The side and bottom skins have been dimpled
and
> are
> > > temporarily secured with pop rivets to the firewall flange. The
> written
> > > instructions imply that the riveting is done before
the "rolling
> over the
> > > canoe" step but it seems odd that this wasn't done yet.
> > >
> > > It also appears that a thin layer of proseal was applied
between
> the
> > bottom
> > > skin and bottom firewall flange but this has not been done
> between the
> > side
> > > skins and firewall flange. I recall reading somewhere that
you're
> supposed
> > > to use proseal to create a vapor barrier between the engine
> compartment
> > and
> > > cockpit but I can't seem to locate the reference at the moment.
> > >
> > > I'm assuming that one needs to use proseal to complete the
> barrier around
> > > the firewall prior to riveting - any guidance from the group on
> when/how
> > to
> > > proseal/rivet the firewall flange to the skins is appreciated.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Joe
> > > 7A QB N813MJ reserved
> > > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> > > www.vansaircraft.net
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Ross Hauck" <ross@...> Time: Wed Jun 4, 2003 7:55 am PDT Link
My research indicates that the main concern about firewall openings is
the corners, where the stainless firewall is relieved and has no flange.
I've used 3M's high temp silicone (from ACS) to fill those gaps. The
main concern is CO from the engine entering the cockpit. I've not seen
any advice from the factory or otherwise suggesting proseal between the
firewall flanges and the skins. My son's QB -8 was sealed in the
corners only.
Ross/7A
-----Original Message-----
From: jgiallo@m... [mailto:jgiallo@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:36 PM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] QB7A fuse assembly question
At what point does one rivet the F770 side skins and bottom skins to the
firewall flange? The side and bottom skins have been dimpled and are
temporarily secured with pop rivets to the firewall flange. The written
instructions imply that the riveting is done before the "rolling over
the
canoe" step but it seems odd that this wasn't done yet.
It also appears that a thin layer of proseal was applied between the
bottom
skin and bottom firewall flange but this has not been done between the
side
skins and firewall flange. I recall reading somewhere that you're
supposed
to use proseal to create a vapor barrier between the engine compartment
and
cockpit but I can't seem to locate the reference at the moment.
I'm assuming that one needs to use proseal to complete the barrier
around
the firewall prior to riveting - any guidance from the group on when/how
to
proseal/rivet the firewall flange to the skins is appreciated.
Regards,
Joe
7A QB N813MJ reserved
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@...> Time: Thu Jun 5, 2003 7:28 am PDT Link
I am like some others. I have not done anything with the flanges where the
firewall and skins (bottom and sides) come together. It will be put
together permanently when the cowling is attached. BUT,,,,,,,,
The firewall will accumulate oil while flying. That oil will be pulled by
gravity and pushed by air pressures and air movement. The bottom should
definitely be sealed to prevent oil getting through the seam and in on the
floor under the rudder and brake pedal area and on the carpet or whatever.
Along the sides is not as critical, but why not proseal it at same time you
do the bottom since we know there are fumes and oil touching that firewall
and we want to keep it on the engine side? That is what I plan to do.
Larry in Indiana, RV7 SlowBuild Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved.
Working on Finish Kit
>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:09:51 -0600
From: "Ross Hauck" <ross@r...>
Subject: RE: QB7A fuse assembly question
>My research indicates that the main concern about firewall openings is
the corners, where the stainless firewall is relieved and has no flange.
I've used 3M's high temp silicone (from ACS) to fill those gaps. The
main concern is CO from the engine entering the cockpit. I've not seen
any advice from the factory or otherwise suggesting proseal between the
firewall flanges and the skins. My son's QB -8 was sealed in the
corners only.
Ross/7A
>-----Original Message-----
From: jgiallo@m... [mailto:jgiallo@m...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:36 PM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] QB7A fuse assembly question
>At what point does one rivet the F770 side skins and bottom skins to the
firewall flange? The side and bottom skins have been dimpled and are
temporarily secured with pop rivets to the firewall flange. The written
instructions imply that the riveting is done before the "rolling over
the
canoe" step but it seems odd that this wasn't done yet.
>It also appears that a thin layer of proseal was applied between the
bottom
skin and bottom firewall flange but this has not been done between the
side
skins and firewall flange. I recall reading somewhere that you're
supposed
to use proseal to create a vapor barrier between the engine compartment
and
cockpit but I can't seem to locate the reference at the moment.
I'm assuming that one needs to use proseal to complete the barrier
around
the firewall prior to riveting - any guidance from the group on when/how
to
proseal/rivet the firewall flange to the skins is appreciated.
Regards,
Joe
7A QB N813MJ reserved
Author: "Ross Hauck" <ross@...> Time: Fri Jun 6, 2003 3:42 am PDT Link
Well, I'm installing an Eggenfellner SuperSubaru, so oil migration is
not a factor...
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: lhelming@s... [mailto:lhelming@s...]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 5:17 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: QB7A fuse assembly question
I am like some others. I have not done anything with the flanges where
the
firewall and skins (bottom and sides) come together. It will be put
together permanently when the cowling is attached. BUT,,,,,,,,
The firewall will accumulate oil while flying. That oil will be pulled
by
gravity and pushed by air pressures and air movement. The bottom should
definitely be sealed to prevent oil getting through the seam and in on
the
floor under the rudder and brake pedal area and on the carpet or
whatever.
Along the sides is not as critical, but why not proseal it at same time
you
do the bottom since we know there are fumes and oil touching that
firewall
and we want to keep it on the engine side? That is what I plan to do.
Larry in Indiana, RV7 SlowBuild Tip-up O-360 3XG reserved.
Working on Finish Kit