Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Thu Jun 5, 2003 3:43 am PDT Link
I really wish I had run conduit under the seat/baggage floors before
riveting them down. In case you're in the same boat as me, here's one way
you can kill two birds with one stone:
http://www.rvproject.com/20030604.html
An under-the-floor baggage compartment plus a "second chance" to run
conduit...enjoy!
I'm glad I'm not trying to beat a deadline (i.e. trying to make OSH or be
part of the centennial or whatever). It's little time-consuming crap like
this that makes me happier about the plane in general.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Author: "Hedrington, Bret" <bhedrington@...> Time: Thu Jun 5, 2003 7:26 am PDT Link
Dan is the tubing your using split? just curious...
Also are you insulating under the floor...It does get a bit cool at over 10K :)
Bret
N997RV
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan@r...]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 3:54 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] conduit under floors
I really wish I had run conduit under the seat/baggage floors before
riveting them down. In case you're in the same boat as me, here's one way
you can kill two birds with one stone:
http://www.rvproject.com/20030604.html
An under-the-floor baggage compartment plus a "second chance" to run
conduit...enjoy!
I'm glad I'm not trying to beat a deadline (i.e. trying to make OSH or be
part of the centennial or whatever). It's little time-consuming crap like
this that makes me happier about the plane in general.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Thu Jun 5, 2003 9:54 am PDT Link
> Dan is the tubing your using split? just curious...
Nope, it's the conduit that Van's sells.
)_( Dan
Author: dnbarrie11@... Time: Fri Jun 6, 2003 7:46 am PDT Link
Hi Dan,
Great idea on the "door in the floor." I noticed you mentioned the 3/8" Unibit shaft. One of the first things accomplished was to have the shaft turned down to 1/4" so it would work in the tool kit air drill and adapters extensions.
The blue conduit from Lowes works great BTW.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
"Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
>I really wish I had run conduit under the seat/baggage floors before
>riveting them down. In case you're in the same boat as me, here's one way
>you can kill two birds with one stone:
>
>http://www.rvproject.com/20030604.html
>
>An under-the-floor baggage compartment plus a "second chance" to run
>conduit...enjoy!
>
>I'm glad I'm not trying to beat a deadline (i.e. trying to make OSH or be
>part of the centennial or whatever). It's little time-consuming crap like
>this that makes me happier about the plane in general.
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
>www.vansaircraft.net
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
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Author: "Ron Walker" <ron@...> Time: Fri Jun 6, 2003 11:46 am PDT Link
With all this talk about drilling holes in the ribs for conduit .... how do
you know how many holes can be further drilled in these ribs ? What about
the size ? Surely this effects the strength of the rib ? How close to the
edge can/should you go ?
Question from a newbie ....
Ron
RV7A (wings kit delivered next week)
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Fri Jun 6, 2003 1:00 pm PDT Link
I only drilled holes in the bulkheads, not the ribs. I guess I'm taking
some liberty in poking one or two more 3/4" conduit holes in F-706 and
F-705. I'm going from what I've seen other builders do, and what I believe
to be a negligible loss of strength.
That said...I took care not to drill F-705 where it is doubled (for the rear
wing spar attach and carry-through).
If you have any doubts at all, call Van's: 503-678-6545. I'm sure they'll
tell you that snap bushing and conduit holes here and there won't harm a
thing.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Walker" <ron@w...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] conduit under floors
> With all this talk about drilling holes in the ribs for conduit .... how
do
> you know how many holes can be further drilled in these ribs ? What about
> the size ? Surely this effects the strength of the rib ? How close to the
> edge can/should you go ?
>
> Question from a newbie ....
>
> Ron
> RV7A (wings kit delivered next week)
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Ron Walker" <ron@...> Time: Fri Jun 6, 2003 3:27 pm PDT Link
I guess the right answer for this then is "experience will tell you where
it's ok" ... My wing kit arrives next week and I've been doing all the
reading I can from people like yourself ... the ones who make the time to
create web sites of detailed photos and narrative! I've been studying up on
the wings in particular hence the comment about drilling out the wing ribs.
Good Stuff!
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] conduit under floors
> I only drilled holes in the bulkheads, not the ribs. I guess I'm taking
> some liberty in poking one or two more 3/4" conduit holes in F-706 and
> F-705. I'm going from what I've seen other builders do, and what I
believe
> to be a negligible loss of strength.
>
> That said...I took care not to drill F-705 where it is doubled (for the
rear
> wing spar attach and carry-through).
>
> If you have any doubts at all, call Van's: 503-678-6545. I'm sure they'll
> tell you that snap bushing and conduit holes here and there won't harm a
> thing.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Fri Jun 6, 2003 4:15 pm PDT Link
Oh yeah...conduit in the wings. 8^) My mind was elsewhere (just installed
conduit in the fuselage). Duh...
do not archive
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Walker" <ron@w...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] conduit under floors
> I guess the right answer for this then is "experience will tell you where
> it's ok" ... My wing kit arrives next week and I've been doing all the
> reading I can from people like yourself ... the ones who make the time to
> create web sites of detailed photos and narrative! I've been studying up
on
> the wings in particular hence the comment about drilling out the wing
ribs.
>
> Good Stuff!
>
> Ron
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...>
> To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] conduit under floors
> > I only drilled holes in the bulkheads, not the ribs. I guess I'm taking
> > some liberty in poking one or two more 3/4" conduit holes in F-706 and
> > F-705. I'm going from what I've seen other builders do, and what I
> believe
> > to be a negligible loss of strength.
> >
> > That said...I took care not to drill F-705 where it is doubled (for the
> rear
> > wing spar attach and carry-through).
> >
> > If you have any doubts at all, call Van's: 503-678-6545. I'm sure
they'll
> > tell you that snap bushing and conduit holes here and there won't harm a
> > thing.
> >
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Bob Barrow" <barrow@...> Time: Fri Jun 6, 2003 6:24 pm PDT Link
I'm wondering aloud now.........hmmmmm did Dan check with Vans before he decided to deviate from the plans by cutting a large hole in the floor pan. Did he obtain a professional opinion as to whether this fairly significant hole might affect the torsional stability of his aircraft at high G forces, or might lead to the premature collapse of the cabin in an impact situation. Vans aircraft are stressed skin structural designs (ie they transmit significant load through their thin skins, presumably both interior and exterior). I'm not sure that builders should be encouraged to cut large holes in force carrying elements on an ad hoc basis.
Hi Dan,
Great idea on the "door in the floor."
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
"Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Sat Jun 7, 2003 4:12 am PDT Link
Nope, I didn't check with Van's. I'm following the lead of a local RV-6
builder for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect. He has two of these
compartments, and his doors are hinged and Hartwell latched, as opposed to
screwed down like mine will be. I've flown in and done aerobatics in his
RV-6 and I have no doubt about his aircraft's strength.
I'm definitely not advocating cutting holes unnecessarily, and I'm not
saying that this hole was necessary to cut. It served a purpose in my case,
but let it stand that if you have more foresight than I did, or if you take
my advice -- run conduit BEFORE riveting the seat/baggage skins down. You
will be very happy you did.
Same deal with prosealing the firewall flange when you assemble the fuselage
for riveting. Yet another thing I didn't think to do that I wish I did.
So take my "ad-hoc hole cutting" as reason for running conduit before the
fact. If you have any doubts about structural modifications, PLEASE do not
follow my lead on any of this stuff without consulting Van's first. I'm not
an engineer. My web site is not a HOW TO. It's my builder's log. I've
gone without any formal disclaimer, but seeing comments like this make me
think that I should put up a major legalese disclaimer on my site so that
people don't think I'm advocating modifications to Van's standard
configuration.
However......
This is an experimental aircraft.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Barrow" <barrow@n...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] conduit under floors
> I'm wondering aloud now.........hmmmmm did Dan check with Vans before he
decided to deviate from the plans by cutting a large hole in the floor pan.
Did he obtain a professional opinion as to whether this fairly significant
hole might affect the torsional stability of his aircraft at high G forces,
or might lead to the premature collapse of the cabin in an impact situation.
Vans aircraft are stressed skin structural designs (ie they transmit
significant load through their thin skins, presumably both interior and
exterior). I'm not sure that builders should be encouraged to cut large
holes in force carrying elements on an ad hoc basis.
> Hi Dan,
>
> Great idea on the "door in the floor."
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
> "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Brian Meier" <brian.c.meier@...> Time: Sat Jun 7, 2003 7:57 am PDT Link
These are EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT. THat means that you as the builder
are the manufacturer. You can place a hole whereever you want. You
can place a door in the floor. Some builders don't pop-rivet the
floor in the baggage area. Some builders use camlocks instead of
hinge pins for the cowl. As always, if as a builder you are not
comfortable with straying from the plans, ask Van's, ask a Tech
Counselor, ask an A&P. But in the end, you as the builder are
responsible and will use the test flight period to make sure it works.
Dan's site is great...very informative...I wish he were ahead of me
in the building process, because it always helps to see stuff put
together before you do it yourself. But don't rely on anyones
website for anything more that educational purposes and a reference.
Brian Meier
N975BM
Author: "Rick and Lori Threet" <warriorthreet@...> Time: Sat Jun 7, 2003 3:36 pm PDT Link
Well said Dan;
I wish I would have ran a couple of extra conduits under the baggage
compartment as well. As it is, I'm cramped for stuffing wires in the
only two conduits I have. I've contemplated removing the baggage
floors several times... but now that I've fought my way this far...
I'll just leave it as is.
About the disclaimer... I agree with the aircraft being an
experimental as disclaimer enough... but you never know... for some
reason Cessna was sued to the extent that they quit building
airplanes for a long time... or so I've heard. We can never be too
careful. My .02 worth..
Rick Threet
www.our-rv7a.com
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
> Nope, I didn't check with Van's. I'm following the lead of a local
RV-6
> builder for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect. He has two
of these
> compartments, and his doors are hinged and Hartwell latched, as
opposed to
> screwed down like mine will be. I've flown in and done aerobatics
in his
> RV-6 and I have no doubt about his aircraft's strength.
>
> I'm definitely not advocating cutting holes unnecessarily, and I'm
not
> saying that this hole was necessary to cut. It served a purpose in
my case,
> but let it stand that if you have more foresight than I did, or if
you take
> my advice -- run conduit BEFORE riveting the seat/baggage skins
down. You
> will be very happy you did.
>
> Same deal with prosealing the firewall flange when you assemble the
fuselage
> for riveting. Yet another thing I didn't think to do that I wish I
did.
>
> So take my "ad-hoc hole cutting" as reason for running conduit
before the
> fact. If you have any doubts about structural modifications,
PLEASE do not
> follow my lead on any of this stuff without consulting Van's
first. I'm not
> an engineer. My web site is not a HOW TO. It's my builder's log.
I've
> gone without any formal disclaimer, but seeing comments like this
make me
> think that I should put up a major legalese disclaimer on my site
so that
> people don't think I'm advocating modifications to Van's standard
> configuration.
>
> However......
>
> This is an experimental aircraft.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Barrow" <barrow@n...>
> To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] conduit under floors
> > I'm wondering aloud now.........hmmmmm did Dan check with Vans
before he
> decided to deviate from the plans by cutting a large hole in the
floor pan.
> Did he obtain a professional opinion as to whether this fairly
significant
> hole might affect the torsional stability of his aircraft at high G
forces,
> or might lead to the premature collapse of the cabin in an impact
situation.
> Vans aircraft are stressed skin structural designs (ie they transmit
> significant load through their thin skins, presumably both interior
and
> exterior). I'm not sure that builders should be encouraged to cut
large
> holes in force carrying elements on an ad hoc basis.
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > Great idea on the "door in the floor."
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> > www.vansaircraft.net
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Jon Byrum" <jbyrum@...> Time: Mon Jun 9, 2003 7:00 am PDT Link
How about just installing nut plates to screw the floor down. I did and it
took several hours to install them, but now the floor can be removed anytime
for more wiring, inspections, etc.
My $.02 on this one,
Jon Byrum
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick and Lori Threet" <warriorthreet@y...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] conduit under floors
> Well said Dan;
>
> I wish I would have ran a couple of extra conduits under the baggage
> compartment as well. As it is, I'm cramped for stuffing wires in the
> only two conduits I have. I've contemplated removing the baggage
> floors several times... but now that I've fought my way this far...
> I'll just leave it as is.
>
> About the disclaimer... I agree with the aircraft being an
> experimental as disclaimer enough... but you never know... for some
> reason Cessna was sued to the extent that they quit building
> airplanes for a long time... or so I've heard. We can never be too
> careful. My .02 worth..
>
> Rick Threet
> www.our-rv7a.com
> --- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
> > Nope, I didn't check with Van's. I'm following the lead of a local
> RV-6
> > builder for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect. He has two
> of these
> > compartments, and his doors are hinged and Hartwell latched, as
> opposed to
> > screwed down like mine will be. I've flown in and done aerobatics
> in his
> > RV-6 and I have no doubt about his aircraft's strength.
> >
> > I'm definitely not advocating cutting holes unnecessarily, and I'm
> not
> > saying that this hole was necessary to cut. It served a purpose in
> my case,
> > but let it stand that if you have more foresight than I did, or if
> you take
> > my advice -- run conduit BEFORE riveting the seat/baggage skins
> down. You
> > will be very happy you did.
> >
> > Same deal with prosealing the firewall flange when you assemble the
> fuselage
> > for riveting. Yet another thing I didn't think to do that I wish I
> did.
> >
> > So take my "ad-hoc hole cutting" as reason for running conduit
> before the
> > fact. If you have any doubts about structural modifications,
> PLEASE do not
> > follow my lead on any of this stuff without consulting Van's
> first. I'm not
> > an engineer. My web site is not a HOW TO. It's my builder's log.
> I've
> > gone without any formal disclaimer, but seeing comments like this
> make me
> > think that I should put up a major legalese disclaimer on my site
> so that
> > people don't think I'm advocating modifications to Van's standard
> > configuration.
> >
> > However......
> >
> > This is an experimental aircraft.
> >
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Barrow" <barrow@n...>
> > To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 3:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] conduit under floors
> > > I'm wondering aloud now.........hmmmmm did Dan check with Vans
> before he
> > decided to deviate from the plans by cutting a large hole in the
> floor pan.
> > Did he obtain a professional opinion as to whether this fairly
> significant
> > hole might affect the torsional stability of his aircraft at high G
> forces,
> > or might lead to the premature collapse of the cabin in an impact
> situation.
> > Vans aircraft are stressed skin structural designs (ie they transmit
> > significant load through their thin skins, presumably both interior
> and
> > exterior). I'm not sure that builders should be encouraged to cut
> large
> > holes in force carrying elements on an ad hoc basis.
> > > Hi Dan,
> > >
> > > Great idea on the "door in the floor."
> > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > Chandler AZ
> > > "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> > > www.vansaircraft.net
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/