Author: "Bruce" <wingtime@...> Time: Sun Jun 8, 2003 12:42 pm PDT Link
Ok this is going to be a long one... Pressure testing my fuel tank
using about 18-20" of pressure in my manometer revealed I had a
leak. Out came the spray bottle with soapy water. I sprayed the
usual suspect places, Filler cap, inspection plate, senders etc.
after finding a few leaks around these places I tightened up the
screws etc. hoping those were the only leaks. (WRONG!) Another
pressure test and spray session revealed those leaks fixed but
several rivets along the skin/rear baffle joint were leaking from
under the manufactured heads. There were no leaks along any joints
or shop heads of the rivets. Just the Countersunk heads of the rear
baffle/skin joint. UGGGHHH!!!!
Throughout construction I was confident about the tank being well
sealed. That is untill I was done with putting on the rear baffle
following Van's instructions. I was very suspect about the seal
along the flange of the rear baffle to the tank skin. Van's suggests
using a bead of proseal less than 3/16 applied to the inside of the
skin from the rivets forward cautioning not to use to much sealant
here. I did this and I didn't feel too cozy about it. I felt it
just wasn't enough and I should have buttered this area up with
proseal like the rest of the tank. I think I was right.
I drilled out the leaky rivets, blopped proseal in the rivet holes
and set new rivets. waited a few days and tested the tank again.
The rivets I repaired didn't leak. But I found more that were! !#$!
@#$! So I drilled, prosealed, and riveted again. Waited and tested
again. Another @#$%#! slow leak.. The soapy water revealed four
more rivets that are still leaking. At this point I know I can
proably get these rivets to stop leaking but I'm not to comfortable
they will stay that way. The last thing I want is a painted wing
with a leaking tank!
I know taking off the rear baffle would be a total nightmare. And I
don't want to do that since the rib/Z- brackets and ends ribs are
nice and airtight. What I was thinking of doing was to remove all
the rivets joining the rear baffle flange to the skin. Pry the skin
away from the flange and inject proseal inbetween with a syringe and
close it back up again.
My question is should I take this drastic step to solve these leaks?
Or does someone else have a better suggestion?
Thanks!
Bruce Smith
Wings/ Tanks
Author: "rv6boxer" <tonmun@...> Time: Sun Jun 8, 2003 2:40 pm PDT Link
Ref: Leaking tanks
Bruce
I'm not sure where your tank is leaking along the rear baffle. If it
is inboard, it might be possible to remove the tank cover (that
contains the sending unit) and gain access to the rear baffle from
inside. A fillet of pro-seal along the top and base of the baffle
might solve the problem.
As frustrating as it is, you're right to fix these now. Leaky tanks
are ugly, smelly, dangerous, and usually get worse with time.
Tony Munday
www.SafeAir1.com
Author: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@...> Time: Mon Jun 9, 2003 5:18 am PDT Link
Bruce
A vacuum will suck proseal into the small opening as good as air
coming out will activate Mr Bubble.
Put a vac on the tank, being very careful here, mix up some thinned
proseal daub it on. Then a 'heaver' fillet of proseal on the skin--
rear baffle joint.
Implosions are quick and decisive, so use caution when applying the
vac.
cary rhodes
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <wingtime@y...> wrote:
> Ok this is going to be a long one... Pressure testing my fuel tank
> using about 18-20" of pressure in my manometer revealed I had a
> leak. Out came the spray bottle with soapy water. I sprayed the
> usual suspect places, Filler cap, inspection plate, senders etc.
> after finding a few leaks around these places I tightened up the
> screws etc. hoping those were the only leaks. (WRONG!) Another
> pressure test and spray session revealed those leaks fixed but
> several rivets along the skin/rear baffle joint were leaking from
> under the manufactured heads. There were no leaks along any joints
> or shop heads of the rivets. Just the Countersunk heads of the
rear
> baffle/skin joint. UGGGHHH!!!!
>
> Throughout construction I was confident about the tank being well
> sealed. That is untill I was done with putting on the rear baffle
> following Van's instructions. I was very suspect about the seal
> along the flange of the rear baffle to the tank skin. Van's
suggests
> using a bead of proseal less than 3/16 applied to the inside of the
> skin from the rivets forward cautioning not to use to much sealant
> here. I did this and I didn't feel too cozy about it. I felt it
> just wasn't enough and I should have buttered this area up with
> proseal like the rest of the tank. I think I was right.
>
> I drilled out the leaky rivets, blopped proseal in the rivet holes
> and set new rivets. waited a few days and tested the tank again.
> The rivets I repaired didn't leak. But I found more that were! !#$!
> @#$! So I drilled, prosealed, and riveted again. Waited and
tested
> again. Another @#$%#! slow leak.. The soapy water revealed four
> more rivets that are still leaking. At this point I know I can
> proably get these rivets to stop leaking but I'm not to comfortable
> they will stay that way. The last thing I want is a painted wing
> with a leaking tank!
>
> I know taking off the rear baffle would be a total nightmare. And
I
> don't want to do that since the rib/Z- brackets and ends ribs are
> nice and airtight. What I was thinking of doing was to remove all
> the rivets joining the rear baffle flange to the skin. Pry the
skin
> away from the flange and inject proseal inbetween with a syringe
and
> close it back up again.
>
> My question is should I take this drastic step to solve these
leaks?
> Or does someone else have a better suggestion?
>
> Thanks!
> Bruce Smith
> Wings/ Tanks
Author: Tom Caruthers <tomcaruthers@...> Time: Mon Jun 9, 2003 7:00 am PDT Link
Its kind of a radical approach, but here goes.
Cut a hole in the back baffle between a pair of the
attach Z channels. You could then stick your hand in
there and seal the baffle to skin joint from the
inside. You would then make a hole cover that would
be blind riveted on.
Just a thought.
Tom
RV-7A fuselage
--- Bruce <wingtime@y...> wrote:
> Ok this is going to be a long one... Pressure
> testing my fuel tank
> using about 18-20" of pressure in my manometer
> revealed I had a
> leak. Out came the spray bottle with soapy water. I
> sprayed the
> usual suspect places, Filler cap, inspection plate,
> senders etc.
> after finding a few leaks around these places I
> tightened up the
> screws etc. hoping those were the only leaks.
> (WRONG!) Another
> pressure test and spray session revealed those leaks
> fixed but
> several rivets along the skin/rear baffle joint were
> leaking from
> under the manufactured heads. There were no leaks
> along any joints
> or shop heads of the rivets. Just the Countersunk
> heads of the rear
> baffle/skin joint. UGGGHHH!!!!
>
> Throughout construction I was confident about the
> tank being well
> sealed. That is untill I was done with putting on
> the rear baffle
> following Van's instructions. I was very suspect
> about the seal
> along the flange of the rear baffle to the tank
> skin. Van's suggests
> using a bead of proseal less than 3/16 applied to
> the inside of the
> skin from the rivets forward cautioning not to use
> to much sealant
> here. I did this and I didn't feel too cozy about
> it. I felt it
> just wasn't enough and I should have buttered this
> area up with
> proseal like the rest of the tank. I think I was
> right.
>
> I drilled out the leaky rivets, blopped proseal in
> the rivet holes
> and set new rivets. waited a few days and tested
> the tank again.
> The rivets I repaired didn't leak. But I found more
> that were! !#$!
> @#$! So I drilled, prosealed, and riveted again.
> Waited and tested
> again. Another @#$%#! slow leak.. The soapy water
> revealed four
> more rivets that are still leaking. At this point
> I know I can
> proably get these rivets to stop leaking but I'm not
> to comfortable
> they will stay that way. The last thing I want is a
> painted wing
> with a leaking tank!
>
> I know taking off the rear baffle would be a total
> nightmare. And I
> don't want to do that since the rib/Z- brackets and
> ends ribs are
> nice and airtight. What I was thinking of doing was
> to remove all
> the rivets joining the rear baffle flange to the
> skin. Pry the skin
> away from the flange and inject proseal inbetween
> with a syringe and
> close it back up again.
>
> My question is should I take this drastic step to
> solve these leaks?
> Or does someone else have a better suggestion?
>
> Thanks!
> Bruce Smith
> Wings/ Tanks
__________________________________
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Author: "McFarland, Randy" <randy.mcfarland@...> Time: Mon Jun 9, 2003 1:47 pm PDT Link
Bruce, I'm about 2 days behind you in pressure testing the tanks.
But when I talked to Vans about this they said to only pressurize the tank
by 1 to 2 pounds. About the pressure you could get by blowing into the line.
To all who have gone before, what's the correct pressure to find out if you
have leaks and how are you measuring it anyway?
Thx and good luck Bruce. Will be very interested in how you resolve your
leaks!!
Randy
----------
From: Cary Rhodes [SMTP:rhodeseng@y...]
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 5:16 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: !@#$#@! Leaking fuel tank.
Bruce
A vacuum will suck proseal into the small opening as good as air
coming out will activate Mr Bubble.
Put a vac on the tank, being very careful here, mix up some thinned
proseal daub it on. Then a 'heaver' fillet of proseal on the skin--
rear baffle joint.
Implosions are quick and decisive, so use caution when applying the
vac.
cary rhodes
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <wingtime@y...> wrote:
> Ok this is going to be a long one... Pressure testing my fuel tank
> using about 18-20" of pressure in my manometer revealed I had a
> leak. Out came the spray bottle with soapy water. I sprayed the
> usual suspect places, Filler cap, inspection plate, senders etc.
> after finding a few leaks around these places I tightened up the
> screws etc. hoping those were the only leaks. (WRONG!) Another
> pressure test and spray session revealed those leaks fixed but
> several rivets along the skin/rear baffle joint were leaking from
> under the manufactured heads. There were no leaks along any
joints
> or shop heads of the rivets. Just the Countersunk heads of the
rear
> baffle/skin joint. UGGGHHH!!!!
>
> Throughout construction I was confident about the tank being well
> sealed. That is untill I was done with putting on the rear baffle
> following Van's instructions. I was very suspect about the seal
> along the flange of the rear baffle to the tank skin. Van's
suggests
> using a bead of proseal less than 3/16 applied to the inside of
the
> skin from the rivets forward cautioning not to use to much sealant
> here. I did this and I didn't feel too cozy about it. I felt it
> just wasn't enough and I should have buttered this area up with
> proseal like the rest of the tank. I think I was right.
>
> I drilled out the leaky rivets, blopped proseal in the rivet holes
> and set new rivets. waited a few days and tested the tank again.
> The rivets I repaired didn't leak. But I found more that were!
!#$!
> @#$! So I drilled, prosealed, and riveted again. Waited and
tested
> again. Another @#$%#! slow leak.. The soapy water revealed four
> more rivets that are still leaking. At this point I know I can
> proably get these rivets to stop leaking but I'm not to
comfortable
> they will stay that way. The last thing I want is a painted wing
> with a leaking tank!
>
> I know taking off the rear baffle would be a total nightmare. And
I
> don't want to do that since the rib/Z- brackets and ends ribs are
> nice and airtight. What I was thinking of doing was to remove all
> the rivets joining the rear baffle flange to the skin. Pry the
skin
> away from the flange and inject proseal inbetween with a syringe
and
> close it back up again.
>
> My question is should I take this drastic step to solve these
leaks?
> Or does someone else have a better suggestion?
>
> Thanks!
> Bruce Smith
> Wings/ Tanks
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Mon Jun 9, 2003 2:15 pm PDT Link
Do an RV-list archive search (http://www.matronics.com/searching/) for
"manometer & fuel tank" and you'll find what you're looking for.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "McFarland, Randy" <randy.mcfarland@n...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 1:33 PM
Subject: RE: [RV7Yahoo] Re: !@#$#@! Leaking fuel tank.
> Bruce, I'm about 2 days behind you in pressure testing the tanks.
> But when I talked to Vans about this they said to only pressurize the tank
> by 1 to 2 pounds. About the pressure you could get by blowing into the
line.
> To all who have gone before, what's the correct pressure to find out if
you
> have leaks and how are you measuring it anyway?
> Thx and good luck Bruce. Will be very interested in how you resolve your
> leaks!!
> Randy
>
> ----------
> From: Cary Rhodes [SMTP:rhodeseng@y...]
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 5:16 AM
> To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: !@#$#@! Leaking fuel tank.
>
> Bruce
>
> A vacuum will suck proseal into the small opening as good as air
> coming out will activate Mr Bubble.
>
> Put a vac on the tank, being very careful here, mix up some thinned
> proseal daub it on. Then a 'heaver' fillet of proseal on the skin--
> rear baffle joint.
>
> Implosions are quick and decisive, so use caution when applying the
> vac.
>
> cary rhodes
> --- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <wingtime@y...> wrote:
> > Ok this is going to be a long one... Pressure testing my fuel tank
>
> > using about 18-20" of pressure in my manometer revealed I had a
> > leak. Out came the spray bottle with soapy water. I sprayed the
> > usual suspect places, Filler cap, inspection plate, senders etc.
> > after finding a few leaks around these places I tightened up the
> > screws etc. hoping those were the only leaks. (WRONG!) Another
> > pressure test and spray session revealed those leaks fixed but
> > several rivets along the skin/rear baffle joint were leaking from
> > under the manufactured heads. There were no leaks along any
> joints
> > or shop heads of the rivets. Just the Countersunk heads of the
> rear
> > baffle/skin joint. UGGGHHH!!!!
> >
> > Throughout construction I was confident about the tank being well
> > sealed. That is untill I was done with putting on the rear baffle
> > following Van's instructions. I was very suspect about the seal
> > along the flange of the rear baffle to the tank skin. Van's
> suggests
> > using a bead of proseal less than 3/16 applied to the inside of
> the
> > skin from the rivets forward cautioning not to use to much sealant
>
> > here. I did this and I didn't feel too cozy about it. I felt it
> > just wasn't enough and I should have buttered this area up with
> > proseal like the rest of the tank. I think I was right.
> >
> > I drilled out the leaky rivets, blopped proseal in the rivet holes
>
> > and set new rivets. waited a few days and tested the tank again.
>
> > The rivets I repaired didn't leak. But I found more that were!
> !#$!
> > @#$! So I drilled, prosealed, and riveted again. Waited and
> tested
> > again. Another @#$%#! slow leak.. The soapy water revealed four
>
> > more rivets that are still leaking. At this point I know I can
> > proably get these rivets to stop leaking but I'm not to
> comfortable
> > they will stay that way. The last thing I want is a painted wing
> > with a leaking tank!
> >
> > I know taking off the rear baffle would be a total nightmare. And
>
> I
> > don't want to do that since the rib/Z- brackets and ends ribs are
> > nice and airtight. What I was thinking of doing was to remove all
>
> > the rivets joining the rear baffle flange to the skin. Pry the
> skin
> > away from the flange and inject proseal inbetween with a syringe
> and
> > close it back up again.
> >
> > My question is should I take this drastic step to solve these
> leaks?
> > Or does someone else have a better suggestion?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Bruce Smith
> > Wings/ Tanks
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "David Domeier" <davidd010@...> Time: Mon Jun 9, 2003 7:48 pm PDT Link
For those sitting on the fence re QB fuselage and/or wing, go QB
wing and build the fuselage.
I built the fuselage while the wings were built and the fuel tanks
pressure checked AOK when they arrived. (and no pro seal
mess to deal with except for float install)
Without doubt, the canopy is the greatest challenge of the project
and it has to be done with or without QB. But you can avoid the
second greatest challenge, the fuel tanks by going QB wing.
Normally, the charge for advice is 2 cents, but this one is free.
dd
7A
Subaru
Author: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@...> Time: Tue Jun 10, 2003 7:25 am PDT Link
I don't disagree with the statement that if you are going to go half QB the
wings would be the choice but not because the tanks are the 'second greatest
challenge'. The tanks are not difficult to build they are just messy and
not a lot of fun. I found many parts of the airplane to be more challenging
than the tanks.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Fuselage
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Domeier" <davidd010@e...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 9:30 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: !@#$#@! Leaking fuel tank.
> For those sitting on the fence re QB fuselage and/or wing, go QB
> wing and build the fuselage.
>
> I built the fuselage while the wings were built and the fuel tanks
> pressure checked AOK when they arrived. (and no pro seal
> mess to deal with except for float install)
>
> Without doubt, the canopy is the greatest challenge of the project
> and it has to be done with or without QB. But you can avoid the
> second greatest challenge, the fuel tanks by going QB wing.
>
> Normally, the charge for advice is 2 cents, but this one is free.
>
> dd
> 7A
> Subaru
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@...> Time: Tue Jun 10, 2003 7:25 am PDT Link
Randy
1 psi would be roughly 2 feet of head pressure of water in a
manometer. That's a plenty to pressure test.
attach a length of clear tubing to the vent port. Let it droop down
and then attach the open end to a step ladder or other handy
upright. With the open top 2 to 3 feet above the tank.
manometer with read vacuum or pressure, your choosing.
cary rhodes
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "McFarland, Randy"
<randy.mcfarland@n...> wrote:
> Bruce, I'm about 2 days behind you in pressure testing the tanks.
> But when I talked to Vans about this they said to only pressurize
the tank
> by 1 to 2 pounds. About the pressure you could get by blowing into
the line.
> To all who have gone before, what's the correct pressure to find
out if you
> have leaks and how are you measuring it anyway?
> Thx and good luck Bruce. Will be very interested in how you resolve
your
> leaks!!
> Randy
>
> ----------
> From: Cary Rhodes [SMTP:rhodeseng@y...]
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 5:16 AM
> To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: !@#$#@! Leaking fuel tank.
>
> Bruce
>
> A vacuum will suck proseal into the small opening as good as
air
> coming out will activate Mr Bubble.
>
> Put a vac on the tank, being very careful here, mix up some
thinned
> proseal daub it on. Then a 'heaver' fillet of proseal on the
skin--
> rear baffle joint.
>
> Implosions are quick and decisive, so use caution when
applying the
> vac.
>
> cary rhodes
> --- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" <wingtime@y...>
wrote:
> > Ok this is going to be a long one... Pressure testing my
fuel tank
>
> > using about 18-20" of pressure in my manometer revealed I
had a
> > leak. Out came the spray bottle with soapy water. I
sprayed the
> > usual suspect places, Filler cap, inspection plate, senders
etc.
> > after finding a few leaks around these places I tightened
up the
> > screws etc. hoping those were the only leaks. (WRONG!)
Another
> > pressure test and spray session revealed those leaks fixed
but
> > several rivets along the skin/rear baffle joint were
leaking from
> > under the manufactured heads. There were no leaks along any
> joints
> > or shop heads of the rivets. Just the Countersunk heads of
the
> rear
> > baffle/skin joint. UGGGHHH!!!!
> >
> > Throughout construction I was confident about the tank
being well
> > sealed. That is untill I was done with putting on the rear
baffle
> > following Van's instructions. I was very suspect about the
seal
> > along the flange of the rear baffle to the tank skin.
Van's
> suggests
> > using a bead of proseal less than 3/16 applied to the
inside of
> the
> > skin from the rivets forward cautioning not to use to much
sealant
>
> > here. I did this and I didn't feel too cozy about it. I
felt it
> > just wasn't enough and I should have buttered this area up
with
> > proseal like the rest of the tank. I think I was right.
> >
> > I drilled out the leaky rivets, blopped proseal in the
rivet holes
>
> > and set new rivets. waited a few days and tested the tank
again.
>
> > The rivets I repaired didn't leak. But I found more that
were!
> !#$!
> > @#$! So I drilled, prosealed, and riveted again. Waited
and
> tested
> > again. Another @#$%#! slow leak.. The soapy water
revealed four
>
> > more rivets that are still leaking. At this point I know
I can
> > proably get these rivets to stop leaking but I'm not to
> comfortable
> > they will stay that way. The last thing I want is a
painted wing
> > with a leaking tank!
> >
> > I know taking off the rear baffle would be a total
nightmare. And
>
> I
> > don't want to do that since the rib/Z- brackets and ends
ribs are
> > nice and airtight. What I was thinking of doing was to
remove all
>
> > the rivets joining the rear baffle flange to the skin. Pry
the
> skin
> > away from the flange and inject proseal inbetween with a
syringe
> and
> > close it back up again.
> >
> > My question is should I take this drastic step to solve
these
> leaks?
> > Or does someone else have a better suggestion?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Bruce Smith
> > Wings/ Tanks
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/