Author: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@...> Time: Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:06 am PDT Link
I am holding the cabin heat diverter contraption and trying to figure
how to use it.
Looks like to me the door opens and closes to allow heated air into
the cabin or not.
thats obvious BUT
when its closed the heated air is dumping on the firewall all the time
I'm not sure I want to heat the firewall and fuel pump area all
summer long
Any Comments from the folks who have gone before
cary rhodes
Author: "Richard & Roberta Hegy" <rhegy@...> Time: Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:30 pm PDT Link
When installed properly, it should direct the heated air flow from the muffler to the cabin in the open position, and dump the airflow out the bottom of the cowl when closed.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Cary Rhodes
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] heat diverter valve
I am holding the cabin heat diverter contraption and trying to figure
how to use it.
Looks like to me the door opens and closes to allow heated air into
the cabin or not.
thats obvious BUT
when its closed the heated air is dumping on the firewall all the time
I'm not sure I want to heat the firewall and fuel pump area all
summer long
Any Comments from the folks who have gone before
cary rhodes
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
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Author: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@...> Time: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:58 am PDT Link
Hey Cary,
You want to make sure that air goes somewhere or you'll melt the muff. I
upgraded to the stainless steel diverter that Van sells and it has provision
for another SCAT tube to be attached to the exit. You could run some tubing
down to the cowl exit point and then your heat would be directed where you
want it. The only thing that I am not quite sure about on the one that I
have is whether or not it will fit behind and below the prop governor,
because it is a bit bigger than the aluminum one.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@y...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] heat diverter valve
> I am holding the cabin heat diverter contraption and trying to figure
> how to use it.
>
> Looks like to me the door opens and closes to allow heated air into
> the cabin or not.
>
> thats obvious BUT
>
> when its closed the heated air is dumping on the firewall all the time
> I'm not sure I want to heat the firewall and fuel pump area all
> summer long
> Any Comments from the folks who have gone before
> cary rhodes
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Doug Jones" <dljinia@...> Time: Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:57 am PDT Link
Phil,
Not sure about this one. If the air is completely blocked off,
the pressure equalizes on both sides of the muff, does the heat
continue to increase in temperature or does it just max out at
current temp + XX degrees.
Look at Tom Berges setup. I saw a couple weeks ago and it looks
good/simple. I believe he is running the same type setup in his
current 6 and if I understood him correctly, has had no problems.
(Trying real hard not to say something that is not true as my
conversation with Tom about this may have lasted 3 minutes.)
A slightly different piece of information: The guy that
manufactures the heat muffs has a new design out that uses an inch
and half (or inch and three quarter) duct from the baffle to the
heat muff. Seems these planes go too fast, the air moving through
the heat muff doesn't stay in the muff long enough to pick up the
heat that it should. Reducing the flow should help.
Doug -finish
http://www.oncloud7.com/rv7.htm
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@p...> wrote:
> Hey Cary,
>
> You want to make sure that air goes somewhere or you'll melt the
muff. I
> upgraded to the stainless steel diverter that Van sells and it has
provision
> for another SCAT tube to be attached to the exit. You could run
some tubing
> down to the cowl exit point and then your heat would be directed
where you
> want it. The only thing that I am not quite sure about on the one
that I
> have is whether or not it will fit behind and below the prop
governor,
> because it is a bit bigger than the aluminum one.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@y...>
> To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 10:13 AM
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] heat diverter valve
> > I am holding the cabin heat diverter contraption and trying to
figure
> > how to use it.
> >
> > Looks like to me the door opens and closes to allow heated air
into
> > the cabin or not.
> >
> > thats obvious BUT
> >
> > when its closed the heated air is dumping on the firewall all
the time
> > I'm not sure I want to heat the firewall and fuel pump area all
> > summer long
> > Any Comments from the folks who have gone before
> > cary rhodes
> > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> > www.vansaircraft.net
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@...> Time: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:04 pm PDT Link
Doug
Is there a link to some pics of the diverter valve assby that you
know of??
Thanks
cary
-- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Jones" <dljinia@y...> wrote:
> Phil,
> Not sure about this one. If the air is completely blocked off,
> the pressure equalizes on both sides of the muff, does the heat
> continue to increase in temperature or does it just max out at
> current temp + XX degrees.
>
> Look at Tom Berges setup. I saw a couple weeks ago and it looks
> good/simple. I believe he is running the same type setup in his
> current 6 and if I understood him correctly, has had no problems.
> (Trying real hard not to say something that is not true as my
> conversation with Tom about this may have lasted 3 minutes.)
>
> A slightly different piece of information: The guy that
> manufactures the heat muffs has a new design out that uses an inch
> and half (or inch and three quarter) duct from the baffle to the
> heat muff. Seems these planes go too fast, the air moving through
> the heat muff doesn't stay in the muff long enough to pick up the
> heat that it should. Reducing the flow should help.
>
> Doug -finish
> http://www.oncloud7.com/rv7.htm
> --- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@p...>
wrote:
> > Hey Cary,
> >
> > You want to make sure that air goes somewhere or you'll melt the
> muff. I
> > upgraded to the stainless steel diverter that Van sells and it
has
> provision
> > for another SCAT tube to be attached to the exit. You could run
> some tubing
> > down to the cowl exit point and then your heat would be directed
> where you
> > want it. The only thing that I am not quite sure about on the
one
> that I
> > have is whether or not it will fit behind and below the prop
> governor,
> > because it is a bit bigger than the aluminum one.
> >
> > Godspeed,
> >
> > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> > http://www.myrv7.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@y...>
> > To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 10:13 AM
> > Subject: [RV7Yahoo] heat diverter valve
> > > I am holding the cabin heat diverter contraption and trying to
> figure
> > > how to use it.
> > >
> > > Looks like to me the door opens and closes to allow heated air
> into
> > > the cabin or not.
> > >
> > > thats obvious BUT
> > >
> > > when its closed the heated air is dumping on the firewall all
> the time
> > > I'm not sure I want to heat the firewall and fuel pump area all
> > > summer long
> > > Any Comments from the folks who have gone before
> > > cary rhodes
> > > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> > > www.vansaircraft.net
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Clay R" <clayr_55@...> Time: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:06 pm PDT Link
The important point here is that air is always moving through the
heat muff at all times or else it will overheat. Hot air should be
ducted into the cabin or dumped to be vented out the bottom of the
cowl.
You also don't want to remove the scat tube from the baffle to the
heat muff in the summer! (unless you are going to remove the heat
muff too) You can remove the scat tube from the muff to the cabin
if you want because this won't stop the flow through the muff.
Has anyone attempted to attach a computer CPU heat sink or two to the
exhaust pipe under the heat muff to improve the effectiveness? I've
heard of the other tricks such as a screen door spring, stainless
steel scrubber pad, etc... but thought a heat sink would be perfect
if you could size the fins down correctly and get a C-clamp to attach
it somehow. Aluminum wouldn't be in danger of melting in there,
would it?
--Clay
> --- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@p...>
wrote:
> > Hey Cary,
> >
> > You want to make sure that air goes somewhere or you'll melt the
> muff. I
> > upgraded to the stainless steel diverter that Van sells and it
has
> provision
> > for another SCAT tube to be attached to the exit. You could run
> some tubing
> > down to the cowl exit point and then your heat would be directed
> where you
> > want it. The only thing that I am not quite sure about on the
one
> that I
> > have is whether or not it will fit behind and below the prop
> governor,
> > because it is a bit bigger than the aluminum one.
> >
> > Godspeed,
Author: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@...> Time: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:44 pm PDT Link
> Phil,
> Not sure about this one. If the air is completely blocked off,
> the pressure equalizes on both sides of the muff, does the heat
> continue to increase in temperature or does it just max out at
> current temp + XX degrees.
There will be some upper limit to where the temperature will go but I would
think instead of using the formula (ambient + x) I would use (EGT - x) this
could be 1000 deg F or more. This would be sufficient to melt aluminum and
I would imagine not help the SCAT tubing. You will probably get some
cooling from the outside world through the inlet so it may not be all that
bad but it will get hot and since these things are designed as heat
exchangers it will get hot quick. There is an awful lot of thermal energy
coming out of those pipes so don't treat it lightly.
> Look at Tom Berges setup. I saw a couple weeks ago and it looks
> good/simple. I believe he is running the same type setup in his
> current 6 and if I understood him correctly, has had no problems.
> (Trying real hard not to say something that is not true as my
> conversation with Tom about this may have lasted 3 minutes.)
Thanks
> A slightly different piece of information: The guy that
> manufactures the heat muffs has a new design out that uses an inch
> and half (or inch and three quarter) duct from the baffle to the
> heat muff. Seems these planes go too fast, the air moving through
> the heat muff doesn't stay in the muff long enough to pick up the
> heat that it should. Reducing the flow should help.
It would be more heat but it would be less airflow so not necessarily more
energy and it is energy (actually enthalpy) that will get the temperature in
the cabin up. The actual amount of energy has more to do with how good a
heat exchanger the muff is at any given velocity. It may work better at the
reduced flow but the best thing to do would be to create as much turbulence
as possible inside the muff and increase the dwell time. I'd personally
rather get the same energy from more air at a slightly cooler temperature
because it will make things feel a little bit more balanced instead of that
Citabria, 300 deg air blowing right on the leg while the back seat guy
freezes feeling. :-) Also remember that at the same time we are cooling the
exhaust and this causes a lower pressure in the exhaust system which will
increase the horsepower. You might actually get 0.0001 knots from the heat
muff. :-) (Quiz: What is wrong with this statement?)
> Doug -finish
> http://www.oncloud7.com/rv7.htm
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
Author: "Doug Jones" <dljinia@...> Time: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:56 am PDT Link
Cary,
Try this, about half way down the page. If the link doesen't work,
its the Minneapolis wing, member projects, Tom Berge.
http://www.pressenter.com/~dougweil/mnwing/id86.htm
It's a slide valve. Tom actually had the one on his 7 set up for two
muffs.
Doug
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@y...> wrote:
> Doug
>
> Is there a link to some pics of the diverter valve assby that you
> know of??
> Thanks
>
> cary
> -- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Jones" <dljinia@y...> wrote:
> > Phil,
> > Not sure about this one. If the air is completely blocked off,
> > the pressure equalizes on both sides of the muff, does the heat
> > continue to increase in temperature or does it just max out at
> > current temp + XX degrees.
> >
> > Look at Tom Berges setup. I saw a couple weeks ago and it looks
> > good/simple. I believe he is running the same type setup in his
> > current 6 and if I understood him correctly, has had no
problems.
> > (Trying real hard not to say something that is not true as my
> > conversation with Tom about this may have lasted 3 minutes.)
> >
> > A slightly different piece of information: The guy that
> > manufactures the heat muffs has a new design out that uses an
inch
> > and half (or inch and three quarter) duct from the baffle to the
> > heat muff. Seems these planes go too fast, the air moving
through
> > the heat muff doesn't stay in the muff long enough to pick up the
> > heat that it should. Reducing the flow should help.
> >
> > Doug -finish
> > http://www.oncloud7.com/rv7.htm
> > --- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@p...>
> wrote:
> > > Hey Cary,
> > >
> > > You want to make sure that air goes somewhere or you'll melt
the
> > muff. I
> > > upgraded to the stainless steel diverter that Van sells and it
> has
> > provision
> > > for another SCAT tube to be attached to the exit. You could
run
> > some tubing
> > > down to the cowl exit point and then your heat would be
directed
> > where you
> > > want it. The only thing that I am not quite sure about on the
> one
> > that I
> > > have is whether or not it will fit behind and below the prop
> > governor,
> > > because it is a bit bigger than the aluminum one.
> > >
> > > Godspeed,
> > >
> > > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> > > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> > > http://www.myrv7.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@y...>
> > > To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 10:13 AM
> > > Subject: [RV7Yahoo] heat diverter valve
> > > > I am holding the cabin heat diverter contraption and trying
to
> > figure
> > > > how to use it.
> > > >
> > > > Looks like to me the door opens and closes to allow heated
air
> > into
> > > > the cabin or not.
> > > >
> > > > thats obvious BUT
> > > >
> > > > when its closed the heated air is dumping on the firewall all
> > the time
> > > > I'm not sure I want to heat the firewall and fuel pump area
all
> > > > summer long
> > > > Any Comments from the folks who have gone before
> > > > cary rhodes
> > > > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> > > > www.vansaircraft.net
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/