Home -> RV-7 and RV-7A topic: Van's Flap Positioning System

Author: "vbpiper" <vbpiper@...> Time: Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:53 pm PDT Link

Has anyone used Van's flap positioning system? Almost all of my time
is in aircraft with manual flaps, and I like the definite detents
when setting them. The few times I've flown 172s with electric
flaps, it seems odd to have to watch the position of the flaps to get
them where you want them. Van's system seems like a good
alternative, but I wonder if anyone has any experience with it as far
as installation and maintenence. Any input would be greatly
appreciated. Also, is it best installed when initially installing
the flap controls?
Thanks.
Ward

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Author: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@...> Time: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:05 pm PDT Link


Author: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@...> Time: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:59 pm PDT Link


Author: "John" <jadams@...> Time: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:47 pm PDT Link

--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic@s...>
wrote:
> I just finished installing this myself. IMHO, it's essential. I
don't want
> to be holding the switch down and watching the indicator for each
setting of
> flaps. Just hit the down switch, and it goes to 10 degrees and
stops. Hit
> the switch again, and it goes to 20 degrees. Hit it again and it
goes to
> 40. Hit the up switch just once, and they come all the way up. It
was very
> easy to install and adjust.
This sounds similar to a Cessna switch but in an RV you hold the
switch down once for a count of four to get half flaps, turn Base and
set them full, another count of four, and you are finished with the
flaps. Pretty simple and if you have a question, you look out the
window and see where they actually are. From my point of view as a
flying RV7 I wouldn't bother with this indicator.
John Adams
N577RV

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Author: "jacklockamy@..." <jacklockamy@...> Time: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:39 pm PDT Link


John,

Sounds like you flew your transition training with Mike Seager (Vernonia, OR) in N666RV also..... BTW, N666RV is perhaps the highest time RV-6A flying.... 3600+ hours when I flew it in July this year.

During my training, Mike said, "hold the flap switch down for a FOUR count and release it... that'll give you half flaps abeam your touchdown point. On base, get the rest of the flaps in by holding the flap switch down for another 4-count".

Worked like a charm. Simple and easy.....

Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
-7A #71103
wiring wingtips

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Author: "Jon Baker" <jon@...> Time: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:42 am PDT Link

Like the other guys said, you only really need three positions -- up,
down, and half -- and a four-count gets it. It would be nice to be
able to do "Up" without holding the switch, but I'm not sure it's
worth the expense of the gadget.

Frankly, I miss the manual flaps on my Cherokee.

--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "vbpiper" <vbpiper@c...> wrote:
> Has anyone used Van's flap positioning system? Almost all of my
time
> is in aircraft with manual flaps, and I like the definite detents
> when setting them. The few times I've flown 172s with electric
> flaps, it seems odd to have to watch the position of the flaps to
get
> them where you want them. Van's system seems like a good
> alternative, but I wonder if anyone has any experience with it as
far
> as installation and maintenence. Any input would be greatly
> appreciated. Also, is it best installed when initially installing
> the flap controls?
> Thanks.
> Ward

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Author: "sje_abi" <sjevans@...> Time: Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:21 am PDT Link

I was doing some prep work with my instroctor just before my check
ride. My instructor had me close my eyes for a few seconds. He then
removed the electric flap fuse...and of course, I knew he had done
something, but didn't know what. I was checking (almost)
everything. A while later we headed to the airport where I ended-up
making a good no-flap landing. Yep, I went through all the setting-
the-flap-motions in preparations for landing. I should have noticed
the non-effect on the plane when I actuated the flap button and I
certainly should have LOOKED at my flaps to verify their position.
My instructor mad a good point.
A lesson learned.

Sam

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Author: "pepeborja925mb" <pepeborja925mb@...> Time: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:20 pm PDT Link

I'm a shade short of 400 TT on my current airplane. I have the
electric flaps w/o indicator and the same "issue" came up in the
list that deals with that airplane model.

Before takeoff, a quick glance tells me where the flaps are. Simple
enough.

For landing, I have learnt to fly my airplane by feel and sound.
As the flaps are deployed the control stick pressure, attitude, and
air stream noise tell me something is happening. I also get to
visually confirm my flap position when I check for traffic around
the pattern and when clearing traffic for turns.

About the only valid argument made on that list for a flap position
indicator was for training purposes (a valid argument given sport
pilot).

If you are in a budget and wish to save $ and panel space, then
here's an easy to build flap position indicator that can be made
with a just a few dollars using cable sheathing and cable (like
bicycle brakes use), a light spring, and a metal ferrule.

Construction is very simple. Attach one end of the cable to the
flap. The other end of the cable is attached to the light spring,
with the ferrule crimped about an inch from the cable's end. The
free end of the spring is then fastened to a fixed position visible
to the pilot (wall, floor, panel, ceiling, etc).

When the flap is deployed, the cable is pulled and the ferrule acts
like a dial indicator (just like a fishing scale). When the flaps
are retracted, the spring moves the ferrule back to "zero". All
that's left to do is "scribe" degree marks where the ferrule is
positioned as the flaps move down. Very effective and is
maintenance free (unless the spring snaps on you)

Jose Borja.

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Author: "Terry Morgan" <emrfixit@...> Time: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:11 pm PDT Link

Thanks Sam for the unique eye-sight. I just joined the local flying club
here this week. I've logged 20 hrs ten years ago and I R so excited about
starting back again. I hope my first lessons is this week, cept I work
nights and I don't have my edge in the mornings, so we'll see how it goes.
But thanks again, all you guys and gals have motivated me greatly.

Dang I shouldn't be so excited...

Terry

-----Original Message-----
From: sje_abi [mailto:sjevans@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 12:09 PM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: Van's Flap Positioning System

I was doing some prep work with my instroctor just before my check
ride. My instructor had me close my eyes for a few seconds. He then
removed the electric flap fuse...and of course, I knew he had done
something, but didn't know what. I was checking (almost)
everything. A while later we headed to the airport where I ended-up
making a good no-flap landing. Yep, I went through all the setting-
the-flap-motions in preparations for landing. I should have noticed
the non-effect on the plane when I actuated the flap button and I
certainly should have LOOKED at my flaps to verify their position.
My instructor mad a good point.
A lesson learned.

Sam

Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net

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www.vansaircraft.net

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Author: "Richard & Roberta Hegy" <rhegy@...> Time: Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:49 pm PDT Link


Author: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@...> Time: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:52 pm PDT Link


Author: "gross_arrow" <gross_arrow@...> Time: Wed Sep 1, 2004 7:56 am PDT Link

i think i'm going to copy my friend's rv6a flap position indicator on my
rv7a -- he simply painted three triangles on the inboard leading edge
of the left flap. when he lowers flaps, he can look out the window to
see which triangles are showing. (he has electric flaps, and, well,
all of us building 7(a)'s will now, i gather.)

on trim, i opted for electric pitch trim and manual aileron trim. i have
had electric pitch trim on 3 of the 6 airplanes i have owned, and i like
it. also, i was originally planning to use an stec-30 autopilot, which
has a "trim prompter", and i had visions of tapping the indicator lights
through some sort of transistor buffer, and possibly a one-shot, and
driving the electric trim from that, to sort of "auto respond" to the
trim prompter. now that i've pretty much decided to use a trutrak,
that idea probably won't see fruition, but it figured into the decision
originally. unlike most people, however, i am currently thinking of
not putting the trim switch on the stick. i've got a long time to make
up my mind, and i may end up with it there, but the current thought
is to put the rocker switch between the seats above the fuel selector.
that's sort of where the wheel is on cherokees, and would be a
natural for flying from either seat without requiring relays for
duplicating
the switch function. it's not the expense of the relays, it's another
point
of failure i'm thinking to avoid. my friend's 6a has the trim switch and
indicator on the instrument panel, but i don't want to give up the panel
space for that.

that's one of the coolest things about building -- you can do it the way
you want to, and don't really have to justify it to anyone. i also enjoy
the free exchange of ideas here -- i've "borrowed" a few of them for my
own project.

i just started building in may, and started reading the archives of this
group a month prior. although i haven't read every thread, i've hit most
of the non-duplicates, and have learned a lot -- couple of the threads
have saved me from making an error that someone else already made.
(i want my errors to be unique :-)

john
7a - elevators
n509jp (reserved)
n509dp (flying -- c310)

--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, Sam Buchanan <sbuc@h...> wrote:
> Richard & Roberta Hegy wrote:
>
> > I agree, Sam. The KISS theory (keep it simple, stupid) usually
works best.
> > My personal preference would have been to keep the manual flaps. I
don't
> > like a lot of sequencing switches controlling flight controls.
> >
> > Roberta

> Roberta, my RV-6 was first flown with manual flaps. I went that way
> because I had been flying a Warrior and had come to appreciate the
> manual flaps.
>
> The manual flaps in the RV-6 worked very nicely, but I just got
tired of
> shoving the passenger's arm out of the way and then poking them in the
> side with my elbow as the flaps were fully extended.
>
> Like you I am a fan of keeping things simple, and in spite of my strong
> and stated preference for the excellent manual trims in the RVs, the
> electric flaps are.......good. They are much easier to use; my flap
> switch is located adjacent to the throttle where I can extend the flaps
> with my hand on the throttle and I no longer have to worry about
> pinching the &#%%$*@((* out of my hand with the manual release button!
>
> Sam Buchanan

> ================================
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@h...>
> > To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 9:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] Van's Flap Positioning System

> > Brian Meyette wrote:

> >>I just finished installing this myself. IMHO, it's essential. I
don't
> >>want
> >>to be holding the switch down and watching the indicator for each
setting
> >>of
> >>flaps. <snip

> > Well, as one who has flown with the electric flaps in an RV for
several
> > hundred hours, I would characterize the sequential flap switch as
> > clever, but certainly not essential.

> >>I haven't flown with it.

> > And once you *have* flown your RV for a while, you will see how
quickly
> > you learn to instinctively set the flaps without even having to
look at
> > them or an indicator.
> >
> > The switch is neat, but builders shouldn't get the impression that the
> > flaps are difficult to manage without it or an indicator.
> >
> > Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 592 hrs)
> > http://thervjournal.com

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Author: Walter Tondu <walter@...> Time: Wed Sep 1, 2004 9:17 am PDT Link


Author: "Don Hull" <rv7boy@...> Time: Wed Sep 1, 2004 12:51 pm PDT Link

That reminds me of flying the family C-172, a 1969 K model. "one-
thousand one, one-thousand two, one-thousand three" for each 10
degrees of flaps. Sounds crude...but it's simple and it works. Glad
to read this thread, because this confirms what I had been planning
for my flaps.
Don

--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "jacklockamy@n..."
<jacklockamy@n...> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Sounds like you flew your transition training with Mike Seager
(Vernonia, OR) in N666RV also..... BTW, N666RV is perhaps the highest
time RV-6A flying.... 3600+ hours when I flew it in July this year.
>
> During my training, Mike said, "hold the flap switch down for a
FOUR count and release it... that'll give you half flaps abeam your
touchdown point. On base, get the rest of the flaps in by holding
the flap switch down for another 4-count".
>
> Worked like a charm. Simple and easy.....
>
> Jack Lockamy
> Camarillo, CA
> -7A #71103
> wiring wingtips

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