Author: "maxwelltl54" <heirloomi@...> Time: Wed Oct 6, 2004 8:33 pm PDT Link
I apologize for prolonging this thread. I should have let it lie from
the start.
Folks, I am not really as stupid as I was made out to be. I have a
masters degree and do consider myself of above average intelligence.
And more importantly I am a safe and cautious pilot. But I admit that
I am no aeroengineer. I do understand the CG ramifications of too
much weight though.
Regrettably I was not intelligent enough to let this one go. My
apologies, I am sorry!
I do appreciate those of you who took the time to put some serious
responses into the middle of this thing. I learned a few things while
in the hairball.
I am done and I apologize to Rich and hope we can let this one go by
the wayside.
Thanks to all!
Stick a fork in me! Miss Piggy and I are done and off to errrr make
bacon.
Piggy and I hope to see you at LOE. That is if she can lose 270lbs
before then. I am not sacrificing my luggage, not even for her.
We'll be the ones drooling all over your airplanes and asking dumb
questions.
Peace!
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Author: "pepeborja925mb" <pepeborja925mb@...> Time: Thu Oct 7, 2004 7:06 am PDT Link
<SNIP>I apologize for prolonging this thread. I should have let it
lie from the start.<SNIP>
No apology needed. You did absolutely nothing wrong and were using
this list for the intended reasons it exists.
I spent two years as a technical instructor teaching Information
Technology professionals in Europe and America. Part of my
training to become a certified instructor was to learn how to impart
knowledge by treating my relationship with "students" as that of a
mentor in a business partnership. i.e., as that of being EQUALS
rather than the authoritarian model of instructor/student. I had
to learn that adult learning is much different than that of non-
adults and requires a different approach.
Seems to me all CFIs could use the same type of training to learn to
treat pilots-in-training as equals in a learning partnership
experience. Learning to fly is expensive and dangerous so the last
thing one needs is to spend money on instructors that do not have
the tools and knowledge to be teachers, not matter how good they may
be in the subject matter they "teach".
What some may perceive as "PC" approach to teaching/traiing, others
will see an instructor that is properly trained in the dynamics of
adult learning (i.e., a person that knows HOW to teach his/her
trade).
So please folks, keep the questions coming, no matter how dumb or
basic they may appear.
Jose Borja
Elk Mound, WI
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Author: "Steve Reamer" <steve@...> Time: Thu Oct 7, 2004 7:17 am PDT Link
Well said...
SR
-----Original Message-----
From: pepeborja925mb [mailto:pepeborja925mb@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:54 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: Dumb Weight Question - Stick a Fork In Me Please!!!!
<SNIP>I apologize for prolonging this thread. I should have let it
lie from the start.<SNIP>
No apology needed. You did absolutely nothing wrong and were using
this list for the intended reasons it exists.
I spent two years as a technical instructor teaching Information
Technology professionals in Europe and America. Part of my
training to become a certified instructor was to learn how to impart
knowledge by treating my relationship with "students" as that of a
mentor in a business partnership. i.e., as that of being EQUALS
rather than the authoritarian model of instructor/student. I had
to learn that adult learning is much different than that of non-
adults and requires a different approach.
Seems to me all CFIs could use the same type of training to learn to
treat pilots-in-training as equals in a learning partnership
experience. Learning to fly is expensive and dangerous so the last
thing one needs is to spend money on instructors that do not have
the tools and knowledge to be teachers, not matter how good they may
be in the subject matter they "teach".
What some may perceive as "PC" approach to teaching/traiing, others
will see an instructor that is properly trained in the dynamics of
adult learning (i.e., a person that knows HOW to teach his/her
trade).
So please folks, keep the questions coming, no matter how dumb or
basic they may appear.
Jose Borja
Elk Mound, WI
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: johncclarkva@... Time: Thu Oct 7, 2004 8:57 am PDT Link
We have a wide range of pilot types. In one category, the types may range from those who break the rules to those who blindly follow the rules to those who are students of aviation (a lifelong process)and want to know more about their airplanes than they can find in a course or a book. I thought your questions fell in the latter category. Questions that go to finding out a little about what is behind a rule, whether in certification, design, operation, ATC or whatever, deserve good answers. There were a few well thought out responses that covered a number of issues, that explained a little of the knowledge behind the rules. Thank you to those who provided the considerate responses. Hypothetical questions are just fine. They should not be construed as reflecting on someone's intentions nor on their capability to fly within the rules. I think that there was damage done to the openess of this forum with some of the strident posts.
"maxwelltl54" <heirloomi@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>I apologize for prolonging this thread. I should have let it lie from
>the start.
>
>Folks, I am not really as stupid as I was made out to be. I have a
>masters degree and do consider myself of above average intelligence.
>And more importantly I am a safe and cautious pilot. But I admit that
>I am no aeroengineer. I do understand the CG ramifications of too
>much weight though.
>
>Regrettably I was not intelligent enough to let this one go.nbsp; My
>apologies, I am sorry!
>
>I do appreciate those of you who took the time to put some serious
>responses into the middle of this thing. I learned a few things while
>in the hairball.
>
>I am done and I apologize to Rich and hope we can let this one go by
>the wayside.
>
>Thanks to all!
>
>Stick a fork in me!nbsp; Miss Piggy and I are done and off to errrr make
>bacon.nbsp;
>
>Piggy and I hope to see you at LOE. That is if she can lose 270lbs
>before then. I am not sacrificing my luggage, not even for her.
>
>We'll be the ones drooling all over your airplanes and asking dumb
>questions.
>
>Peace!
>Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
>www.vansaircraft.net
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
>
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------*Yahoo! Groups Links*
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/
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Author: Garrett Smith <garrett@...> Time: Thu Oct 7, 2004 10:16 am PDT Link
Hey, I think this may be relevant - from the Van's Aircraft website
(http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/jj-plane.htm):
> Even though Jon lost 22 pounds while preparing the airplane, it was
> soon apparent that, with enough fuel to make ocean-spanning legs,
> survival gear, communication gear and supplies, the gross weight was
> going to be higher than the recommended 1500 pounds. In the US, where
> the gross weight of an airplane in the Experimental category is
> determined by the builder, this would have been no problem. In
> Australia, it required an approval from the designer. When Jon
> contacted Dick VanGrunsven, Van was initially tempted to dismiss him
> as another dreamer.
>
> "There are always a few people who just don't seem to grasp the
> fundamentals of what makes airplanes fly or perform." Van says. "They
> want to modify them in completely impractical ways. After I talked
> with Jon for a while, I realized that he did understand his airplane
> and his questions were good ones. When I visited Australia, I got a
> chance to meet him and I was impressed. If anyone was going to do what
> Jon was proposing to do, he was the one." After reviewing Jon’s
> modifications and qualifications, Van felt comfortable issuing a one
> time approval for a take-off weight equaling 136% of the recommended
> gross.
Perhaps whether or not it's a dumb question depends on the mentality,
piloting skills, and intentions of the person asking it. It seems to
me that these are difficult things to judge via email. Let's cut
Maxwell a little slack here, and give him the benefit of the doubt.
On the other hand: as someone whose ink is still drying on their
private certificate, I've got vivid memories (as do all of us, I'm
sure) of flight instructors telling us (with various degrees of
political correctness, or whatever you want to call it) that we've done
stupid things. Comments that come from someone in person with a
knowing smile and/or a chuckle seem lots less harsh than when stated
via email - I am *sure* that Rich has responded in the way he has
because he dislikes everyone, so let's give him the benefit of the
doubt too. Personally, I can recall being told by my flight instructor
that I've asked a dumb question, and then being either told the answer
or to go look it up myself. The motivational tool, though is that I
better know the answer next time I fly with the instructor, because
he's going to remember and ask me the same dumb question back.
I think there's a few things to remember, that we can probably
(hopefully?) all agree on -
1. Email is a difficult medium in which to clearly communicate, and
it's easy to walk away with a different message than what the writer
really meant. I'm convinced that if any of what have turned into
volatile conversations had actually taken place in person, they would
never have gotten volatile. If I'm wrong about this, Oshkosh is
probably much more entertaining than I think it is, and I'm not really
sure I want to go.
2. Keep learning. Whether or not this is asking questions here,
reading books ("Beyond the Checkride" and "The Killing Zone" are both
books that I would recommend, even with the limited experience that
I've got. One of them has a great discussion of weight/balance, but I
don't remember which one), or checking out a list like this:
http://www.airbum.com/articles/Article25Tips.html
or continuing to fly with an instructor for the purpose of getting
checked out in new airplanes or more ratings - do whatever you feel is
necessary to keep learning.
</rant>
Back to building airplanes.
- garrett
----------
Garrett Smith, RV-7A
www.golfsierra.org
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