Author: "Rich" <easylivin_ak@...> Time: Thu Oct 7, 2004 12:15 pm PDT Link
The "dumb question" thread seems to have boiled down to a debate on
PC's place in the aviation field. I am an advocate and practice PC
in most other areas such as race relations, discrimination, etc.
There is no excuse for not doing that. When it comes to aviation
safety, in particular, I take a different stance. Let me start by
saying that I am NOT talking about student training here. As a CFII,
I have never treated any student with a lack of respect and have
always tried to keep up their comfort level to advance their
learning curve. I follow FAA guidelines and adhere to their
psychology of learning manual.
I am talking about how we discuss flying amongst certified pilots.
Specifically those who demonstrate a severe lack of traaing. When
RV's and other planes start falling out of the sky it is time to do
something that will get some results. Glossing over a pilot's
inadequacies will not get the job done. As you can see, pilots are
being certified by FAA without the slightest bit of knowledge on the
importance of CG effect on controllability, gross weight effects,
and the need for structural strength which is a separate issue.
the posting that started this whole thing "dumb question" is an
excellent example. This group seems to be dominated by PC cops who
immediately jump all over anyone that would dare criticize. What
astounds me is the hypocritical nature of their posts. On one hand
they criticize me for " calling out" this gentleman. Then in the
next breath they make all kind of accusations about me and my skills
as CFII without knowing any facts about how I have conducted myself
over 30 years with my students. They call me dirty names and show a
total lack of respect, while accusing me of the same thing. If you
take time to read my initial reply "dumb Question" you would see
that I did none of that to him. His humiliation comes from his own
posting, not from me, and he so much as admittted that. Instead of
taking criticism like a man, after asking for it, he instead lashed
out at me and my career. His crock of BS , on the other hand,
should have brought many responses. But the real pilots here were
hogtied with PC and afraid to say anything. Only the PC cops had the
guts to speak up. Most of these people jump in on the thread without
reading all the posts so they have no idea where I am coming from
let alone the other critics of me.
I joined this group not to "take" but to "give" of my experience,
not just in building RV's but in flying them. I have learned alot
from other builders and pilots too. Maybe you don't agree with my
tactics of non-PC and I respect your opinion. But please don't lose
sight of the real issue here. If you want to work toward the same
goal as me, namely safety, why don't more of you PC cops help by
pointing out the occasional pilot's lack of knowledge in your most
PC correct way. That way , I can sit back and be MR nice guy for a
while and let you do the work .
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Author: "Steve Reamer" <steve@...> Time: Fri Oct 8, 2004 3:38 am PDT Link
Guys...
I have to weigh in on the subject of PC...so called "political correctness"
I am a child of the sixties and I want to know how we have gotten to this
point.
Is any one paying attention at all...we toss off these words without
considering the meaning.
Since when is anything either politically correct or not in the USA...have
we gone deaf...disengaged our brains completely...POLITICALLY
CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those words should not cross the lips of an American or anyone in a
democratic society...dissension must by nature be politically incorrect to
someone...and in this case what is implied is that if the idea is not shared
or currently sponsored by the populous or those in power than it is
"Incorrect"...many ideas we hold very dear must have been viewed as
politically in correct at some time...
I think we should purge that expression from our vocabulary...
This is not a criticism of anyone in this group just a comment on a pet
peeve of mine...sorry... please don't anyone take this personally...I don't
even remember who used it I am just so sick of hearing it.
SR
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich [mailto:easylivin_ak@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 3:14 PM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Political Correctness in the RV community
The "dumb question" thread seems to have boiled down to a debate on
PC's place in the aviation field. I am an advocate and practice PC
in most other areas such as race relations, discrimination, etc.
There is no excuse for not doing that. When it comes to aviation
safety, in particular, I take a different stance. Let me start by
saying that I am NOT talking about student training here. As a CFII,
I have never treated any student with a lack of respect and have
always tried to keep up their comfort level to advance their
learning curve. I follow FAA guidelines and adhere to their
psychology of learning manual.
I am talking about how we discuss flying amongst certified pilots.
Specifically those who demonstrate a severe lack of traaing. When
RV's and other planes start falling out of the sky it is time to do
something that will get some results. Glossing over a pilot's
inadequacies will not get the job done. As you can see, pilots are
being certified by FAA without the slightest bit of knowledge on the
importance of CG effect on controllability, gross weight effects,
and the need for structural strength which is a separate issue.
the posting that started this whole thing "dumb question" is an
excellent example. This group seems to be dominated by PC cops who
immediately jump all over anyone that would dare criticize. What
astounds me is the hypocritical nature of their posts. On one hand
they criticize me for " calling out" this gentleman. Then in the
next breath they make all kind of accusations about me and my skills
as CFII without knowing any facts about how I have conducted myself
over 30 years with my students. They call me dirty names and show a
total lack of respect, while accusing me of the same thing. If you
take time to read my initial reply "dumb Question" you would see
that I did none of that to him. His humiliation comes from his own
posting, not from me, and he so much as admittted that. Instead of
taking criticism like a man, after asking for it, he instead lashed
out at me and my career. His crock of BS , on the other hand,
should have brought many responses. But the real pilots here were
hogtied with PC and afraid to say anything. Only the PC cops had the
guts to speak up. Most of these people jump in on the thread without
reading all the posts so they have no idea where I am coming from
let alone the other critics of me.
I joined this group not to "take" but to "give" of my experience,
not just in building RV's but in flying them. I have learned alot
from other builders and pilots too. Maybe you don't agree with my
tactics of non-PC and I respect your opinion. But please don't lose
sight of the real issue here. If you want to work toward the same
goal as me, namely safety, why don't more of you PC cops help by
pointing out the occasional pilot's lack of knowledge in your most
PC correct way. That way , I can sit back and be MR nice guy for a
while and let you do the work .
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
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www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV7and7A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Author: "Rich" <easylivin_ak@...> Time: Fri Oct 8, 2004 9:33 am PDT Link
I pretty much agree with all you said Steve. If people would just
concentrate on acting fair and balanced in their relations (am I
sounding like Bill O'Reilly now) then maybe this term would fade
away. Whoever invented the term did a diservice to our country and
the whole world. I do refer to "PC cops" just to refer to that group
of people who seem to use PC as an excuse for every criticism they
throw at you, as they did to me here.
Rich
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Reamer" <steve@m...> wrote:
>
> Guys...
>
> I have to weigh in on the subject of PC...so called "political
correctness"
>
> I am a child of the sixties and I want to know how we have gotten
to this
> point.
>
> Is any one paying attention at all...we toss off these words
without
> considering the meaning.
> Since when is anything either politically correct or not in the
USA...have
> we gone deaf...disengaged our brains completely...POLITICALLY
> CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Those words should not cross the lips of an American or anyone in a
> democratic society...dissension must by nature be politically
incorrect to
> someone...and in this case what is implied is that if the idea is
not shared
> or currently sponsored by the populous or those in power than it is
> "Incorrect"...many ideas we hold very dear must have been viewed as
> politically in correct at some time...
>
> I think we should purge that expression from our vocabulary...
>
> This is not a criticism of anyone in this group just a comment on
a pet
> peeve of mine...sorry... please don't anyone take this
personally...I don't
> even remember who used it I am just so sick of hearing it.
> SR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich [mailto:easylivin_ak@y...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 3:14 PM
> To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Political Correctness in the RV community
> The "dumb question" thread seems to have boiled down to a debate
on
> PC's place in the aviation field. I am an advocate and practice PC
> in most other areas such as race relations, discrimination, etc.
> There is no excuse for not doing that. When it comes to aviation
> safety, in particular, I take a different stance. Let me start by
> saying that I am NOT talking about student training here. As a
CFII,
> I have never treated any student with a lack of respect and have
> always tried to keep up their comfort level to advance their
> learning curve. I follow FAA guidelines and adhere to their
> psychology of learning manual.
>
> I am talking about how we discuss flying amongst certified pilots.
> Specifically those who demonstrate a severe lack of traaing. When
> RV's and other planes start falling out of the sky it is time to
do
> something that will get some results. Glossing over a pilot's
> inadequacies will not get the job done. As you can see, pilots are
> being certified by FAA without the slightest bit of knowledge on
the
> importance of CG effect on controllability, gross weight effects,
> and the need for structural strength which is a separate issue.
>
> the posting that started this whole thing "dumb question" is an
> excellent example. This group seems to be dominated by PC cops who
> immediately jump all over anyone that would dare criticize. What
> astounds me is the hypocritical nature of their posts. On one hand
> they criticize me for " calling out" this gentleman. Then in the
> next breath they make all kind of accusations about me and my
skills
> as CFII without knowing any facts about how I have conducted
myself
> over 30 years with my students. They call me dirty names and show
a
> total lack of respect, while accusing me of the same thing. If you
> take time to read my initial reply "dumb Question" you would see
> that I did none of that to him. His humiliation comes from his own
> posting, not from me, and he so much as admittted that. Instead of
> taking criticism like a man, after asking for it, he instead
lashed
> out at me and my career. His crock of BS , on the other hand,
> should have brought many responses. But the real pilots here were
> hogtied with PC and afraid to say anything. Only the PC cops had
the
> guts to speak up. Most of these people jump in on the thread
without
> reading all the posts so they have no idea where I am coming from
> let alone the other critics of me.
>
> I joined this group not to "take" but to "give" of my experience,
> not just in building RV's but in flying them. I have learned alot
> from other builders and pilots too. Maybe you don't agree with my
> tactics of non-PC and I respect your opinion. But please don't
lose
> sight of the real issue here. If you want to work toward the same
> goal as me, namely safety, why don't more of you PC cops help by
> pointing out the occasional pilot's lack of knowledge in your most
> PC correct way. That way , I can sit back and be MR nice guy for a
> while and let you do the work .
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
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www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV7and7A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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Author: "Mike Ward" <mward@...> Time: Fri Oct 8, 2004 9:33 am PDT Link
Interesting times for the group.
Just briefly on the topic of PC... I believe we have all (to the most
part) been PC in our debates, I've never heard anyone use racial,
sexual, or any other slurs.
I think what we occasionally miss the boat on is good ol' diplomacy!
It's important to write an email in such a way that the recipient would
be standing in front of you... My mother calls it "manners", and I
personally don't feel the use of these traits ever weakens the use of
communication in pilot training, or life.
regards,
Mike W
QB7
Toronto
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Reamer [mailto:steve@merrittservices.com]
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 12:40 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [RV7Yahoo] Political Correctness in the RV community
Guys...
I have to weigh in on the subject of PC...so called "political
correctness"
I am a child of the sixties and I want to know how we have gotten to
this
point.
Is any one paying attention at all...we toss off these words without
considering the meaning.
Since when is anything either politically correct or not in the
USA...have
we gone deaf...disengaged our brains completely...POLITICALLY
CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those words should not cross the lips of an American or anyone in a
democratic society...dissension must by nature be politically incorrect
to
someone...and in this case what is implied is that if the idea is not
shared
or currently sponsored by the populous or those in power than it is
"Incorrect"...many ideas we hold very dear must have been viewed as
politically in correct at some time...
I think we should purge that expression from our vocabulary...
This is not a criticism of anyone in this group just a comment on a pet
peeve of mine...sorry... please don't anyone take this personally...I
don't
even remember who used it I am just so sick of hearing it.
SR
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich [mailto:easylivin_ak@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 3:14 PM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Political Correctness in the RV community
The "dumb question" thread seems to have boiled down to a debate on
PC's place in the aviation field. I am an advocate and practice PC
in most other areas such as race relations, discrimination, etc.
There is no excuse for not doing that. When it comes to aviation
safety, in particular, I take a different stance. Let me start by
saying that I am NOT talking about student training here. As a CFII,
I have never treated any student with a lack of respect and have
always tried to keep up their comfort level to advance their
learning curve. I follow FAA guidelines and adhere to their
psychology of learning manual.
I am talking about how we discuss flying amongst certified pilots.
Specifically those who demonstrate a severe lack of traaing. When
RV's and other planes start falling out of the sky it is time to do
something that will get some results. Glossing over a pilot's
inadequacies will not get the job done. As you can see, pilots are
being certified by FAA without the slightest bit of knowledge on the
importance of CG effect on controllability, gross weight effects,
and the need for structural strength which is a separate issue.
the posting that started this whole thing "dumb question" is an
excellent example. This group seems to be dominated by PC cops who
immediately jump all over anyone that would dare criticize. What
astounds me is the hypocritical nature of their posts. On one hand
they criticize me for " calling out" this gentleman. Then in the
next breath they make all kind of accusations about me and my skills
as CFII without knowing any facts about how I have conducted myself
over 30 years with my students. They call me dirty names and show a
total lack of respect, while accusing me of the same thing. If you
take time to read my initial reply "dumb Question" you would see
that I did none of that to him. His humiliation comes from his own
posting, not from me, and he so much as admittted that. Instead of
taking criticism like a man, after asking for it, he instead lashed
out at me and my career. His crock of BS , on the other hand,
should have brought many responses. But the real pilots here were
hogtied with PC and afraid to say anything. Only the PC cops had the
guts to speak up. Most of these people jump in on the thread without
reading all the posts so they have no idea where I am coming from
let alone the other critics of me.
I joined this group not to "take" but to "give" of my experience,
not just in building RV's but in flying them. I have learned alot
from other builders and pilots too. Maybe you don't agree with my
tactics of non-PC and I respect your opinion. But please don't lose
sight of the real issue here. If you want to work toward the same
goal as me, namely safety, why don't more of you PC cops help by
pointing out the occasional pilot's lack of knowledge in your most
PC correct way. That way , I can sit back and be MR nice guy for a
while and let you do the work .
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV7and7A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/