Author: "scottygrant" <scottygrant@...> Time: Fri Oct 8, 2004 2:34 pm PDT Link
Hello all. I'm looking harder at an auto conversion for my RV-7 when
I get to that point after the IO-360 C1C in my Arrow II failed in
flight (#3 exhaust valve dropped) at 8,500 as I was climbing to the
west, and I had to "glide" it into Twentynine Palms airport. I
dragged it to it's eventual parking spot, and after a month and a
half of downtime and really big $$$$ for a new engine and
accessories, I pray I'll be flying it back to Santa Barbara next
weekend. BTW, the only engine I've had fail on me was the one I was
flying behind....but enough about that.
Anyway, have any builders out there installed or are planning to
install auto engines in their RV-7s? I'm most interested in the
Vortec 4.3 Chevy, so Belted Air Power and Northwest Aero have topped
my list. I understand there is no provision for carb heat or a
vacuum source when using this engine, so I'll need to engineer it. I
also get that I'll be using a fixed prop.
Thanks,
Scott
RV-7 wings and tail complete
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Author: "ljk1234" <ljkyle@...> Time: Fri Oct 8, 2004 2:53 pm PDT Link
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "scottygrant" <scottygrant@y...>
wrote:
If you are open to other engines look at this.
http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/
Larry Kyle
> Hello all. I'm looking harder at an auto conversion for my RV-7
when
> I get to that point after the IO-360 C1C in my Arrow II failed in
> flight (#3 exhaust valve dropped) at 8,500 as I was climbing to the
> west, and I had to "glide" it into Twentynine Palms airport. I
> dragged it to it's eventual parking spot, and after a month and a
> half of downtime and really big $$$$ for a new engine and
> accessories, I pray I'll be flying it back to Santa Barbara next
> weekend. BTW, the only engine I've had fail on me was the one I
was
> flying behind....but enough about that.
>
> Anyway, have any builders out there installed or are planning to
> install auto engines in their RV-7s? I'm most interested in the
> Vortec 4.3 Chevy, so Belted Air Power and Northwest Aero have
topped
> my list. I understand there is no provision for carb heat or a
> vacuum source when using this engine, so I'll need to engineer it.
I
> also get that I'll be using a fixed prop.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
> RV-7 wings and tail complete
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Author: "flowinrv9" <rvatornate@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 5:21 am PDT Link
> Anyway, have any builders out there installed or are planning to
> install auto engines in their RV-7s? I'm most interested in the
> Vortec 4.3 Chevy, so Belted Air Power and Northwest Aero have
topped
> my list. I understand there is no provision for carb heat or a
> vacuum source when using this engine, so I'll need to engineer
it. I
> also get that I'll be using a fixed prop.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
> RV-7 wings and tail complete
Scott,
I don't know anything about the Chevy, but I do know there is no
need to engineer a vacuum pump these days. Go electric. You will
already need some sort of Dual electrical system to keep your engine
running, why not use a solid state gyro such as Dynon, Grand Rapids,
Blue Mountain, etc. Also, no need to feel tied to a fixed pitch
prop. MT makes several types of electric constant speed props, I'm
sure one would work for a chevy conversion. An auto engine
conversion will perform much better behind a constant speed than a
fixed.
Hope this helps.
Nathan Larson
N217JT RV9E 200+ hours behind a great modern car engine.
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Author: "Mike Newall" <a1b6@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 5:21 am PDT Link
Scott,
Sorry to hear about your engine failure - a mind concentrator at any
time.
Just because you have had one in another airplane, doesn't mean you
are at any more or less risk in your new one!
Vans designed the airplanes for Lycoming type engines and for some
time refused to support auto conversions.
My take is that the Lycoming is designed for airplane use, the
Vortec is not. The Lycoming is normally running in an rpm band that
it was designed to do, supplying power at 75% or more of it's design
load. The Vortec is running at a higher steady rpm and delivering
more power than it was ever designed to do while cruising the
freeway (normally 30 - 40% or rated power. That is my reason for
not considering an auto conversion.
Search the web for a discussion on brake mean effective pressure and
you will soon see that the auto conversion is much more highly
stressed than the Lycoming.
That said, if folks want to go the auto route, go ahead, I have no
ax to grind, my guidance is that the reason to swap shouldn't be
influenced by one failure.
In a previous life, I flew skydivers. We had a Cessna 206
(Continental IO-520), A Cherokee 6 (Lycoming O-540), and a Piper
Lance (Lycoming IO-540). Now as Chief Pilot, I supervised these for
10 years, we changed oil regularly - (THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF
ENGINE MAINTENANCE), we flew commercially well i.e. fast enough, yet
we were extremely careful about rate of change of temperature within
the engine. Result - not a single blown cylinder, each engine
exceeded TBO, the Cherokee 6 went to 3,200 hours!
Lycoming make excellent engines, as do the after marketeers - take
care in your selection.
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Author: "Ron Francis" <Oldgeezer01@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 7:54 am PDT Link
Scott
check out www.predatoraviation.com
A Corvett LSI engine (400 HP) $ 28,000 firewall forward setup for
the RV7
Good Luck
Ron--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Newall" <a1b6@d...> wrote:
> Scott,
>
> Sorry to hear about your engine failure - a mind concentrator at
any
> time.
>
> Just because you have had one in another airplane, doesn't mean
you
> are at any more or less risk in your new one!
>
> Vans designed the airplanes for Lycoming type engines and for some
> time refused to support auto conversions.
>
> My take is that the Lycoming is designed for airplane use, the
> Vortec is not. The Lycoming is normally running in an rpm band
that
> it was designed to do, supplying power at 75% or more of it's
design
> load. The Vortec is running at a higher steady rpm and delivering
> more power than it was ever designed to do while cruising the
> freeway (normally 30 - 40% or rated power. That is my reason for
> not considering an auto conversion.
>
> Search the web for a discussion on brake mean effective pressure
and
> you will soon see that the auto conversion is much more highly
> stressed than the Lycoming.
>
> That said, if folks want to go the auto route, go ahead, I have no
> ax to grind, my guidance is that the reason to swap shouldn't be
> influenced by one failure.
>
> In a previous life, I flew skydivers. We had a Cessna 206
> (Continental IO-520), A Cherokee 6 (Lycoming O-540), and a Piper
> Lance (Lycoming IO-540). Now as Chief Pilot, I supervised these
for
> 10 years, we changed oil regularly - (THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF
> ENGINE MAINTENANCE), we flew commercially well i.e. fast enough,
yet
> we were extremely careful about rate of change of temperature
within
> the engine. Result - not a single blown cylinder, each engine
> exceeded TBO, the Cherokee 6 went to 3,200 hours!
>
> Lycoming make excellent engines, as do the after marketeers - take
> care in your selection.
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Author: customtrans@... Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 9:34 am PDT Link
Ok, let me ask this, how do you get insurance for the plane? I called a few
insurance companies and quarried about rates and requirements. They said as
long as you don't go over 220 horses you are fine. This engine rates at
400hp.
steve allbee
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Francis [mailto:Oldgeezer01@msn.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 7:30 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: Vortec Engine for an RV-7
Scott
check out www.predatoraviation.com
A Corvett LSI engine (400 HP) $ 28,000 firewall forward setup for
the RV7
Good Luck
Ron--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Newall" <a1b6@d...> wrote:
> Scott,
>
> Sorry to hear about your engine failure - a mind concentrator at
any
> time.
>
> Just because you have had one in another airplane, doesn't mean
you
> are at any more or less risk in your new one!
>
> Vans designed the airplanes for Lycoming type engines and for some
> time refused to support auto conversions.
>
> My take is that the Lycoming is designed for airplane use, the
> Vortec is not. The Lycoming is normally running in an rpm band
that
> it was designed to do, supplying power at 75% or more of it's
design
> load. The Vortec is running at a higher steady rpm and delivering
> more power than it was ever designed to do while cruising the
> freeway (normally 30 - 40% or rated power. That is my reason for
> not considering an auto conversion.
>
> Search the web for a discussion on brake mean effective pressure
and
> you will soon see that the auto conversion is much more highly
> stressed than the Lycoming.
>
> That said, if folks want to go the auto route, go ahead, I have no
> ax to grind, my guidance is that the reason to swap shouldn't be
> influenced by one failure.
>
> In a previous life, I flew skydivers. We had a Cessna 206
> (Continental IO-520), A Cherokee 6 (Lycoming O-540), and a Piper
> Lance (Lycoming IO-540). Now as Chief Pilot, I supervised these
for
> 10 years, we changed oil regularly - (THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF
> ENGINE MAINTENANCE), we flew commercially well i.e. fast enough,
yet
> we were extremely careful about rate of change of temperature
within
> the engine. Result - not a single blown cylinder, each engine
> exceeded TBO, the Cherokee 6 went to 3,200 hours!
>
> Lycoming make excellent engines, as do the after marketeers - take
> care in your selection.
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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Author: "rv7doug" <rv7doug@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 9:35 am PDT Link
Hey Scott,
I have some food for thought for you regarding Lyc vs the vortec.
When you think about all the things that could go wrong on a new
vortec more experimental engine vs a lyc. which would you rather be
flying over the ocean without a raft...?
Think of all the safe flying you have had with the lyc. Think of all
the lycoming engines out there burning holes in the sky that never
have a failure to TBO for the last 50 years or so..
I am staying with the lyc.
Doug 7 wing
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "scottygrant" <scottygrant@y...>
wrote:
> Hello all. I'm looking harder at an auto conversion for my RV-7
when
> I get to that point after the IO-360 C1C in my Arrow II failed in
> flight (#3 exhaust valve dropped) at 8,500 as I was climbing to the
> west, and I had to "glide" it into Twentynine Palms airport. I
> dragged it to it's eventual parking spot, and after a month and a
> half of downtime and really big $$$$ for a new engine and
> accessories, I pray I'll be flying it back to Santa Barbara next
> weekend. BTW, the only engine I've had fail on me was the one I
was
> flying behind....but enough about that.
>
> Anyway, have any builders out there installed or are planning to
> install auto engines in their RV-7s? I'm most interested in the
> Vortec 4.3 Chevy, so Belted Air Power and Northwest Aero have
topped
> my list. I understand there is no provision for carb heat or a
> vacuum source when using this engine, so I'll need to engineer it.
I
> also get that I'll be using a fixed prop.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
> RV-7 wings and tail complete
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Author: "Richard & Roberta Hegy" <rhegy@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 10:45 pm PDT Link
I like Lyc!!!!! You couldn't give me another engine.
JMHO
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: rv7doug
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 10:23 AM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: Vortec Engine for an RV-7
Hey Scott,
I have some food for thought for you regarding Lyc vs the vortec.
When you think about all the things that could go wrong on a new
vortec more experimental engine vs a lyc. which would you rather be
flying over the ocean without a raft...?
Think of all the safe flying you have had with the lyc. Think of all
the lycoming engines out there burning holes in the sky that never
have a failure to TBO for the last 50 years or so..
I am staying with the lyc.
Doug 7 wing
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "scottygrant" <scottygrant@y...>
wrote:
> Hello all. I'm looking harder at an auto conversion for my RV-7
when
> I get to that point after the IO-360 C1C in my Arrow II failed in
> flight (#3 exhaust valve dropped) at 8,500 as I was climbing to the
> west, and I had to "glide" it into Twentynine Palms airport. I
> dragged it to it's eventual parking spot, and after a month and a
> half of downtime and really big $$$$ for a new engine and
> accessories, I pray I'll be flying it back to Santa Barbara next
> weekend. BTW, the only engine I've had fail on me was the one I
was
> flying behind....but enough about that.
>
> Anyway, have any builders out there installed or are planning to
> install auto engines in their RV-7s? I'm most interested in the
> Vortec 4.3 Chevy, so Belted Air Power and Northwest Aero have
topped
> my list. I understand there is no provision for carb heat or a
> vacuum source when using this engine, so I'll need to engineer it.
I
> also get that I'll be using a fixed prop.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
> RV-7 wings and tail complete
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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Author: Phil Birkelbach <phil@...> Time: Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:32 am PDT Link
Howdy Scott,
I could get into the 'buy a Lycoming' fray but you'll get that stuff
anyway.
I don't see why you would need carb heat. Doesn't the Vortec have a
computer controlled multiport fuel injection system? There is generally
no need for carb heat on a fuel injected engine, since the primary
contributor to carb ice is the latent energy obsorbed by the fuel when
it vaporizes. If you don't vaporize the fuel until the intake manifold
then there is really nothing to worry about. I'm not putting carb heat
on my AFP injected Lycoming.
It is a good idea to put some kind of alternate air source on the
intake, but it doesn't have to be heated. This is incase you injest a
bird or a plastic bag or get in some freezing rain that ices up the filter.
As far as that vacuum system I can't imagine anybody building an
airplane in the 21st century and putting in a vacuum pump. The single
most failure prone device on that Lycoming is the vacuum pump. If you
are worried about reliability then it seems to me you'd want to go
electric and solid-state.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Panel
http://www.myrv7.com
scottygrant wrote:
>Hello all. I'm looking harder at an auto conversion for my RV-7 when
>I get to that point after the IO-360 C1C in my Arrow II failed in
>flight (#3 exhaust valve dropped) at 8,500 as I was climbing to the
>west, and I had to "glide" it into Twentynine Palms airport. I
>dragged it to it's eventual parking spot, and after a month and a
>half of downtime and really big $$$$ for a new engine and
>accessories, I pray I'll be flying it back to Santa Barbara next
>weekend. BTW, the only engine I've had fail on me was the one I was
>flying behind....but enough about that.
>
>Anyway, have any builders out there installed or are planning to
>install auto engines in their RV-7s? I'm most interested in the
>Vortec 4.3 Chevy, so Belted Air Power and Northwest Aero have topped
>my list. I understand there is no provision for carb heat or a
>vacuum source when using this engine, so I'll need to engineer it. I
>also get that I'll be using a fixed prop.
>
>Thanks,
>Scott
>RV-7 wings and tail complete
>Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
>www.vansaircraft.net
>Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: B Tomm <fvalarm@...> Time: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:40 am PDT Link
Both Northwest Aero and Belted airpower use carburated engines. When I
looked at the Belted product quite a few years ago, it did not employ carb
heat. I have seen an excellent example of the Northwest installation and
carb heat was cleverly fabricated by the builder. I would not consider it
acceptable to run a carb without carb heat available.
Bevan
RV7A fuse
Probably powered by Eggenfellner's 2.5 supercharged or 3.0 normally
aspirated
No mags, aircooled cylinders & heads, oil consumption/loss, manual leaning,
rpm restrictions or vacuum pumps for me.
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Birkelbach [SMTP:phil@petrasoft.net]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 6:47 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] Vortec Engine for an RV-7
Howdy Scott,
I could get into the 'buy a Lycoming' fray but you'll get that stuff
anyway.
I don't see why you would need carb heat. Doesn't the Vortec have a
computer controlled multiport fuel injection system? There is generally
no need for carb heat on a fuel injected engine, since the primary
contributor to carb ice is the latent energy obsorbed by the fuel when
it vaporizes. If you don't vaporize the fuel until the intake manifold
then there is really nothing to worry about. I'm not putting carb heat
on my AFP injected Lycoming.
It is a good idea to put some kind of alternate air source on the
intake, but it doesn't have to be heated. This is incase you injest a
bird or a plastic bag or get in some freezing rain that ices up the filter.
As far as that vacuum system I can't imagine anybody building an
airplane in the 21st century and putting in a vacuum pump. The single
most failure prone device on that Lycoming is the vacuum pump. If you
are worried about reliability then it seems to me you'd want to go
electric and solid-state.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Panel
http://www.myrv7.com
scottygrant wrote:
>Hello all. I'm looking harder at an auto conversion for my RV-7 when
>I get to that point after the IO-360 C1C in my Arrow II failed in
>flight (#3 exhaust valve dropped) at 8,500 as I was climbing to the
>west, and I had to "glide" it into Twentynine Palms airport. I
>dragged it to it's eventual parking spot, and after a month and a
>half of downtime and really big $$$$ for a new engine and
>accessories, I pray I'll be flying it back to Santa Barbara next
>weekend. BTW, the only engine I've had fail on me was the one I was
>flying behind....but enough about that.
>
>Anyway, have any builders out there installed or are planning to
>install auto engines in their RV-7s? I'm most interested in the
>Vortec 4.3 Chevy, so Belted Air Power and Northwest Aero have topped
>my list. I understand there is no provision for carb heat or a
>vacuum source when using this engine, so I'll need to engineer it. I
>also get that I'll be using a fixed prop.
>
>Thanks,
>Scott
>RV-7 wings and tail complete
>Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
>www.vansaircraft.net
>Yahoo! Groups Links
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
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