Author: Frank Stringham <fstringham7a@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 3:03 pm PDT Link
Hi Group
I am riveting the 707 nose rib to the right HS skin bottom side. Top side has been riveted. First three rivets on 707 aft to forward great. Problem, the skin is about a 1/32 or less above the 707 rib for the last three. Riveted the next two thinking the space would close. NO such luck. I drilled the two rivets out (no enlarged hole......I AM GETTING EXCELLENT AT DRILLING THEM OUT). I am bucking and shooting alone so maybe I just can't get the proper force to bring the skin / rib together????? before shooting.
Any advice would be appreciated and if possible asap as I would like to continue.
Thanks in advance...........
Frank @SGU and SLC
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Author: "Richard & Roberta Hegy" <rhegy@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 10:46 pm PDT Link
Make sure you have either a good clecoe or rivet adjacent to your intended rivet. Both sides, when possible. Get a helper to buck so you can push the skin down.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Stringham
To: rv7and7a@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 4:30 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] RE:Nose Rib 707 to skin
Hi Group
I am riveting the 707 nose rib to the right HS skin bottom side. Top side has been riveted. First three rivets on 707 aft to forward great. Problem, the skin is about a 1/32 or less above the 707 rib for the last three. Riveted the next two thinking the space would close. NO such luck. I drilled the two rivets out (no enlarged hole......I AM GETTING EXCELLENT AT DRILLING THEM OUT). I am bucking and shooting alone so maybe I just can't get the proper force to bring the skin / rib together????? before shooting.
Any advice would be appreciated and if possible asap as I would like to continue.
Thanks in advance...........
Frank @SGU and SLC
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Author: "Rich" <easylivin_ak@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 10:48 pm PDT Link
Hi Frank,
That darn 707 is the hardest part to rivet in the whole tail kit!
Sounds like your flanges are not at 90 degrees in that area. You
don't want to be pushing from the outside (skin side) because that
will leave unsitely dents in the HS outer surface. You must push the
flange up tight from the inside some how. If you cant do that you
may have to remove the rib and start over again. Or possibly you may
be able to insert shims between the rib flange and skin to take up
the gap, you may need longer rivets if you do that as well.
Good luck!
Rich
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, Frank Stringham <fstringham7a@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Group
>
> I am riveting the 707 nose rib to the right HS skin bottom side.
Top side has been riveted. First three rivets on 707 aft to forward
great. Problem, the skin is about a 1/32 or less above the 707 rib
for the last three. Riveted the next two thinking the space would
close. NO such luck. I drilled the two rivets out (no enlarged
hole......I AM GETTING EXCELLENT AT DRILLING THEM OUT). I am bucking
and shooting alone so maybe I just can't get the proper force to
bring the skin / rib together????? before shooting.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated and if possible asap as I would
like to continue.
>
> Thanks in advance...........
>
> Frank @SGU and SLC
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Author: "lindbergs52" <lindbergs1@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 10:51 pm PDT Link
Frank: Here are some random thoughts. (It has been over a year since I did my HS.) Use
lots of clecos. If the parts fit with clecos they will fit with rivets. You should not need to
force the skin and rib together while riveting. Is there some reason for the bad fit? Not
flanged to 90 degrees? Not fluted so the rib is straight? Bend the rib until it fits. Get a
good fit. Then use a generous number of clecos. Clecos should hold the parts in position
for riveting but they should not be used to force badly fitting parts together. Rivet from
leading edge to aft. You must have a good fit between the rib flange and the skin or the
rivet will expand between the rib and the skin...you no doubt know that by now. In the
long run it is better to have skill at drilling out bad rivets than to have skill at setting
them...at least it has been for me! Good luck, Steve
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, Frank Stringham <fstringham7a@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Group
>
> I am riveting the 707 nose rib to the right HS skin bottom side. Top side has been
riveted. First three rivets on 707 aft to forward great. Problem, the skin is about a 1/32 or
less above the 707 rib for the last three. Riveted the next two thinking the space would
close. NO such luck. I drilled the two rivets out (no enlarged hole......I AM GETTING
EXCELLENT AT DRILLING THEM OUT). I am bucking and shooting alone so maybe I just
can't get the proper force to bring the skin / rib together????? before shooting.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated and if possible asap as I would like to continue.
>
> Thanks in advance...........
>
> Frank @SGU and SLC
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: "DonVS" <dsvs@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 10:54 pm PDT Link
Frank,
This sounds weird but are you sure that you dimpled all the rib holes? I
know of at least one person who did not dimple them all and he had the same
description of the problem as you. Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Stringham [mailto:fstringham7a@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 2:31 PM
To: rv7and7a@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] RE:Nose Rib 707 to skin
Hi Group
I am riveting the 707 nose rib to the right HS skin bottom side. Top side
has been riveted. First three rivets on 707 aft to forward great. Problem,
the skin is about a 1/32 or less above the 707 rib for the last three.
Riveted the next two thinking the space would close. NO such luck. I drilled
the two rivets out (no enlarged hole......I AM GETTING EXCELLENT AT DRILLING
THEM OUT). I am bucking and shooting alone so maybe I just can't get the
proper force to bring the skin / rib together????? before shooting.
Any advice would be appreciated and if possible asap as I would like to
continue.
Thanks in advance...........
Frank @SGU and SLC
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Author: "DonVS" <dsvs@...> Time: Sat Oct 9, 2004 10:56 pm PDT Link
Frank,
This sounds weird but are you sure that you dimpled all the rib holes? I
know of at least one person who did not dimple them all and he had the same
description of the problem as you. Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Stringham [mailto:fstringham7a@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 2:31 PM
To: rv7and7a@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] RE:Nose Rib 707 to skin
Hi Group
I am riveting the 707 nose rib to the right HS skin bottom side. Top side
has been riveted. First three rivets on 707 aft to forward great. Problem,
the skin is about a 1/32 or less above the 707 rib for the last three.
Riveted the next two thinking the space would close. NO such luck. I drilled
the two rivets out (no enlarged hole......I AM GETTING EXCELLENT AT DRILLING
THEM OUT). I am bucking and shooting alone so maybe I just can't get the
proper force to bring the skin / rib together????? before shooting.
Any advice would be appreciated and if possible asap as I would like to
continue.
Thanks in advance...........
Frank @SGU and SLC
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Author: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@...> Time: Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:55 am PDT Link
Excellent thought. I know someone who only dimpled the skins and not the substructure. His empennage didn't look so good and he eventually abandoned his project...
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: DonVS
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 10:36 PM
Subject: RE: [RV7Yahoo] RE:Nose Rib 707 to skin
Frank,
This sounds weird but are you sure that you dimpled all the rib holes? I
know of at least one person who did not dimple them all and he had the same
description of the problem as you. Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Stringham [mailto:fstringham7a@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 2:31 PM
To: rv7and7a@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] RE:Nose Rib 707 to skin
Hi Group
I am riveting the 707 nose rib to the right HS skin bottom side. Top side
has been riveted. First three rivets on 707 aft to forward great. Problem,
the skin is about a 1/32 or less above the 707 rib for the last three.
Riveted the next two thinking the space would close. NO such luck. I drilled
the two rivets out (no enlarged hole......I AM GETTING EXCELLENT AT DRILLING
THEM OUT). I am bucking and shooting alone so maybe I just can't get the
proper force to bring the skin / rib together????? before shooting.
Any advice would be appreciated and if possible asap as I would like to
continue.
Thanks in advance...........
Frank @SGU and SLC
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Author: "Phil" <pjanderton@...> Time: Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:56 am PDT Link
Frank -
You and me both. In my kit, the shape of the skin and the shape of
those ribs did not match, Even with a full swag of clecoes inserted
there were gaps. I had to drill out the first rivets.
Then I got my son (21 y.o. aviation student - thinks I'm crazy
building an airplane) to shoot while I bucked with one hand and
pressed metal to metal with the other. Then it worked OK.
In my experience, these were the hardest rivets to get right. I am
not sure if that was just lack of experience, being the first flush
rivets - probably so. After these, the rest are not difficult with
care. I have done all my rivets solo so far, many bucking "blind". You
get to feel your way around.
Get help with these and then move on.
I am now finishing elevators v e r y slowly while waiting for Quick
Build "big stuff" to arrive.
Phil Anderton
Sydney Australia
http://members.optusnet.com.au/rv7/
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, Frank Stringham <fstringham7a@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Group
>
> I am riveting the 707 nose rib to the right HS skin bottom side.
Top side has been riveted. First three rivets on 707 aft to forward
great. Problem, the skin is about a 1/32 or less above the 707 rib for
the last three. Riveted the next two thinking the space would close.
NO such luck. I drilled the two rivets out (no enlarged hole......I AM
GETTING EXCELLENT AT DRILLING THEM OUT). I am bucking and shooting
alone so maybe I just can't get the proper force to bring the skin /
rib together????? before shooting.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated and if possible asap as I would like
to continue.
>
> Thanks in advance...........
>
> Frank @SGU and SLC
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: "Mike Newall" <a1b6@...> Time: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:08 am PDT Link
Just done these rivets this afternoon - look at the plan, the
callout for rivets offers a substitution of MS 319 pull rivets for
the front 2 on the underside. When we worked forward, our ribs were
very slightly off the skin. After using the pull rivets, they all
set down perfectly. Once we get to finishing, a bit of proseal on
the hole will sort that out no bother.
This is far less risky than struggling and ending up with an
oversize hole or a crease or smile.
You will also enjoy the front rivets at the top of the VS - just got
in with a hand squezzer, tomorrow, I have delight of the elevator
ribs to come.
It just gets better and better !
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Author: "Steve & Denise" <sjhdcl@...> Time: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:08 am PDT Link
I find the best way to deal with situations like this is to use clecoes that
are tightened with a wing nut.
This allows you to really pull the pieces together. Much stronger than
normal clecoes.
I have about 10 of these. Use one of these in an adjacent hole and then
rivet the neighbouring one.
Link to Avery tools:
http://www.averytools.com/showoneitem.cfm?primarykey=432&cat=55&kit=0
You may run into similar occurrences with the leading edge and fuel tank
nose ribs.
Steve Hurlbut
RV7A #2
Long legs, IFR
> Hi Group
>
> I am riveting the 707 nose rib to the right HS skin bottom side. Top
side has been riveted. First three rivets on 707 aft to forward great.
Problem, the skin is about a 1/32 or less above the 707 rib for the last
three. Riveted the next two thinking the space would close. NO such luck. I
drilled the two rivets out (no enlarged hole......I AM GETTING EXCELLENT AT
DRILLING THEM OUT). I am bucking and shooting alone so maybe I just can't
get the proper force to bring the skin / rib together????? before shooting.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated and if possible asap as I would like to
continue.
>
> Thanks in advance...........
>
> Frank @SGU and SLC
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Author: "Rich" <easylivin_ak@...> Time: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:09 am PDT Link
Good point Don !
Frank, if this is the case, that you missed dimpling the rib in this
area there is a way out still. Make a shim for each hole with a
machined countersink in it. This will take up the space between the
rib and the skin. Just slip it in place and use a longer rivet
because you now have a thicker joint.
Rich
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "DonVS" <dsvs@c...> wrote:
>
> Frank,
> This sounds weird but are you sure that you dimpled all the rib
holes? I
> know of at least one person who did not dimple them all and he had
the same
> description of the problem as you. Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank Stringham [mailto:fstringham7a@y...]
> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 2:31 PM
> To: rv7and7a@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] RE:Nose Rib 707 to skin
> Hi Group
>
> I am riveting the 707 nose rib to the right HS skin bottom side.
Top side
> has been riveted. First three rivets on 707 aft to forward great.
Problem,
> the skin is about a 1/32 or less above the 707 rib for the last
three.
> Riveted the next two thinking the space would close. NO such luck.
I drilled
> the two rivets out (no enlarged hole......I AM GETTING EXCELLENT
AT DRILLING
> THEM OUT). I am bucking and shooting alone so maybe I just can't
get the
> proper force to bring the skin / rib together????? before shooting.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated and if possible asap as I would
like to
> continue.
>
> Thanks in advance...........
>
> Frank @SGU and SLC
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: customtrans@... Time: Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:33 pm PDT Link
Any spot on the emp or anything to come in the future that needs a rivet in
a tight spot gets the mk-319-bs . this rivet goes on the trailing edge of
the left rudder and the trim, towards the inside of the skin. I've ordered
a bunch more of these and found that those nasty stiffeners for the elevator
at the trailing edge can be a pain to put in a rivet, the chance of buckling
the skin is great, so I put in these rivets, I also put them on the tight
areas of the vs and both elevators and rudder. These rivets are cool
because they use the standard dimple for the small rivets and look real good
when done. My question is why would you proseal a pop rivet?
steve allbee
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Newall [mailto:a1b6@dsl.pipex.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 9:04 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: Nose Rib 707 to skin
Just done these rivets this afternoon - look at the plan, the
callout for rivets offers a substitution of MS 319 pull rivets for
the front 2 on the underside. When we worked forward, our ribs were
very slightly off the skin. After using the pull rivets, they all
set down perfectly. Once we get to finishing, a bit of proseal on
the hole will sort that out no bother.
This is far less risky than struggling and ending up with an
oversize hole or a crease or smile.
You will also enjoy the front rivets at the top of the VS - just got
in with a hand squezzer, tomorrow, I have delight of the elevator
ribs to come.
It just gets better and better !
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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Author: "Mike Newall" <a1b6@...> Time: Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:05 am PDT Link
My question is why would you proseal a pop rivet?
>
> steve allbee
Only because Bondo or similar has a tendency to 'ping' out with
vibration. The Proseal fills the hole quite nicely and leaves a
finish as smooth as a solid rivet - aesthetics - no structural
reason. We must have too much time on our hands !
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Author: customtrans@... Time: Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:31 am PDT Link
cool, thanks for the tip
steve allbee
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Newall [mailto:a1b6@dsl.pipex.com]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 1:18 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: Nose Rib 707 to skin
My question is why would you proseal a pop rivet?
>
> steve allbee
Only because Bondo or similar has a tendency to 'ping' out with
vibration. The Proseal fills the hole quite nicely and leaves a
finish as smooth as a solid rivet - aesthetics - no structural
reason. We must have too much time on our hands !
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