Author: "gsuit45" <gsuit@...> Time: Mon Nov 7, 2005 4:48 pm PST Link
Anyone flying an RV:
What is the range of motion, fore and aft, of your rudder pedals? I'm
trying to decide exactly where to drill mine. I can sit in my fuse,
with my oregon aero cushions and get a rough idea, but I have short
legs. And my concern is the rudder cable attach point hitting the F-
902 bulkhead.
Also, did anyone chop their stick length down, and if so, what
reprocussions came of it? Harder to move in flight, etc...
Clayton Henderson
Beaumont, TX
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Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Mon Nov 7, 2005 5:53 pm PST Link
Sorry, I don't have exact dimensions for the range of rudder pedal travel.
It ends up being "less than you'd think," if that makes any sense. By
utilizing the seat back adjustment points (hinges on the seat pan) you
should be able to set up your rudder pedals almost arbitrarily, and then you
can adjust the seat back forward or aft as needed to get a perfect fit.
In a way, I think it's kinda silly that drilling the hinges to the seat pans
is one of the first things you do on a tipped canoe fuselage. In my
opinion, that should wait until almost last, when you've got your seat
cushions and can play around with the actual seated position. You can
always fab up a custom brace to go between the top of the seat back and
F-705. Van's "cookie" cutter 3-position setup should serve most folks of
different sizes, but imho it would be better to customize it to the pilot.
Just my 2 cents on that.
Yeah, I cut my stick down quite a few inches so that (a) the stick grip
would have no trouble clearing my extended (lower) panel and the stuff
sticking out of it (switches and the like), and (b) so that my stick grip
position was comfortable...arm lying in my lap, pretty much.
There are 2 schools of thought on this. You see the guys with the gangly
long sticks, presumably so they have the lightest possible stick force and
don't tend to over-control the plane (more displacement = less action).
Then you see the guys with cut-off sticks who want it to be comfortable.
Whatever floats your boat!
Even with my shortened sticks, the force it takes to maneuver at near
redline speeds (when the controls stiffen way up) is not excessive (in my
OPINION). Others will disagree, I'm sure. Just depends on what you're used
to, what you like. I like a little force.
When taking off or landing, the stick force is so light regardless of stick
length due to lower airspeed, it ain't gonna matter if you chopped 4" off or
added 4" of length. If you're admittedly a little ham fisted and think
you're the type to over-control a very responsive plane (i.e. pitching in
the flare), then maybe you don't want to chop the stick down. If you're a
half decent stick it won't matter. These are finesse planes. It's really
more like pressure, not motion.
Leave the stick plenty long & grab lower on the stick. Or chop it down and
have the grip wherever you want it. Or not. Whatever!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (670 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "gsuit45" <gsuit@eonet.net>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:27 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Rudder Pedal Travel
> Anyone flying an RV:
> What is the range of motion, fore and aft, of your rudder pedals? I'm
> trying to decide exactly where to drill mine. I can sit in my fuse,
> with my oregon aero cushions and get a rough idea, but I have short
> legs. And my concern is the rudder cable attach point hitting the F-
> 902 bulkhead.
>
> Also, did anyone chop their stick length down, and if so, what
> reprocussions came of it? Harder to move in flight, etc...
>
> Clayton Henderson
> Beaumont, TX
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Mon Nov 7, 2005 5:54 pm PST Link
Forgot to mention what may be obvious -- if you do cut your sticks down and
end up not liking it, you can always lengthen it. And vice versa. I don't
think there's a right or wrong answer here.
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] Rudder Pedal Travel
> Sorry, I don't have exact dimensions for the range of rudder pedal travel.
> It ends up being "less than you'd think," if that makes any sense. By
> utilizing the seat back adjustment points (hinges on the seat pan) you
> should be able to set up your rudder pedals almost arbitrarily, and then
you
> can adjust the seat back forward or aft as needed to get a perfect fit.
>
> In a way, I think it's kinda silly that drilling the hinges to the seat
pans
> is one of the first things you do on a tipped canoe fuselage. In my
> opinion, that should wait until almost last, when you've got your seat
> cushions and can play around with the actual seated position. You can
> always fab up a custom brace to go between the top of the seat back and
> F-705. Van's "cookie" cutter 3-position setup should serve most folks of
> different sizes, but imho it would be better to customize it to the pilot.
>
> Just my 2 cents on that.
>
> Yeah, I cut my stick down quite a few inches so that (a) the stick grip
> would have no trouble clearing my extended (lower) panel and the stuff
> sticking out of it (switches and the like), and (b) so that my stick grip
> position was comfortable...arm lying in my lap, pretty much.
>
> There are 2 schools of thought on this. You see the guys with the gangly
> long sticks, presumably so they have the lightest possible stick force and
> don't tend to over-control the plane (more displacement = less action).
> Then you see the guys with cut-off sticks who want it to be comfortable.
> Whatever floats your boat!
>
> Even with my shortened sticks, the force it takes to maneuver at near
> redline speeds (when the controls stiffen way up) is not excessive (in my
> OPINION). Others will disagree, I'm sure. Just depends on what you're
used
> to, what you like. I like a little force.
>
> When taking off or landing, the stick force is so light regardless of
stick
> length due to lower airspeed, it ain't gonna matter if you chopped 4" off
or
> added 4" of length. If you're admittedly a little ham fisted and think
> you're the type to over-control a very responsive plane (i.e. pitching in
> the flare), then maybe you don't want to chop the stick down. If you're a
> half decent stick it won't matter. These are finesse planes. It's really
> more like pressure, not motion.
>
> Leave the stick plenty long & grab lower on the stick. Or chop it down
and
> have the grip wherever you want it. Or not. Whatever!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (670 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gsuit45" <gsuit@eonet.net>
> To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:27 PM
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Rudder Pedal Travel
> > Anyone flying an RV:
> > What is the range of motion, fore and aft, of your rudder pedals? I'm
> > trying to decide exactly where to drill mine. I can sit in my fuse,
> > with my oregon aero cushions and get a rough idea, but I have short
> > legs. And my concern is the rudder cable attach point hitting the F-
> > 902 bulkhead.
> >
> > Also, did anyone chop their stick length down, and if so, what
> > reprocussions came of it? Harder to move in flight, etc...
> >
> > Clayton Henderson
> > Beaumont, TX
> > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> > www.vansaircraft.net
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: Martin Gomez <mlg28@...> Time: Mon Nov 7, 2005 11:42 pm PST Link
OK, I measured it on my NON-FLYING RV:
The rudder pedals move +/- 2 3/8" from the rudder neutral position.
Cheers,
Martin
gsuit45 wrote:
>Anyone flying an RV:
>What is the range of motion, fore and aft, of your rudder pedals? I'm
>trying to decide exactly where to drill mine. I can sit in my fuse,
>with my oregon aero cushions and get a rough idea, but I have short
>legs. And my concern is the rudder cable attach point hitting the F-
>902 bulkhead.
--
Martin Gomez
MLG28@cornell.edu
http://www.bashingaluminum.com
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Author: Martin Gomez <mlg28@...> Time: Mon Nov 7, 2005 11:43 pm PST Link
You can do this mathematically. Or you can wait until I can get down to
my project and measure it. Here's the mathematical way:
Measure the width of the rudder horn, across the rudder cable holes.
Call that d. Look up the desired rudder travel in the instructions.
Call that "a"...I assume that's degrees.
Rudder cable deflection = (d/2) x sin(a/57.3)
The above assumes you enter this into Excel, which uses radians for
angles. degrees/57.3 converts to radians. If your calculator uses
degrees for trig functions, leave out the /57.3
This equation tells how much the pedal moves in each direction. If you
use inches for d, then you get the rudder pedal travel in inches.
gsuit45 wrote:
>Anyone flying an RV:
>What is the range of motion, fore and aft, of your rudder pedals? I'm
>trying to decide exactly where to drill mine. I can sit in my fuse,
>with my oregon aero cushions and get a rough idea, but I have short
>legs. And my concern is the rudder cable attach point hitting the F-
>902 bulkhead.
--
Martin Gomez
MLG28@cornell.edu
http://www.bashingaluminum.com
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Author: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@...> Time: Tue Nov 8, 2005 8:22 am PST Link
it ironic this question came up today.
Last nite I worked to move the rudder pedal assembly rearward
one 'notch'.
I drilled holes to be able the set the assembly at several different
positions.
Man was it a b+++ch to remove the bolts and replace. I am sore in
alot of spots this morning. When I finished I could only imagine how
a 250 lb guy could wiggle up under the panel. I'm only 155ish and it
was a struggle for me.
I really have no technical info to add. Other than I set the seat
back toward the rear and now I have moved the rudder pedals toward
the rear.
If I were repeating last evening I would just move the seat forward.
live and learn
cary rhodes
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "gsuit45" <gsuit@e...> wrote:
>
> Anyone flying an RV:
> What is the range of motion, fore and aft, of your rudder pedals?
I'm
> trying to decide exactly where to drill mine. I can sit in my
fuse,
> with my oregon aero cushions and get a rough idea, but I have short
> legs. And my concern is the rudder cable attach point hitting the
F-
> 902 bulkhead.
>
> Also, did anyone chop their stick length down, and if so, what
> reprocussions came of it? Harder to move in flight, etc...
>
> Clayton Henderson
> Beaumont, TX
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Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Tue Nov 8, 2005 8:42 am PST Link
Cary,
Do you have a center "pedestal" coming down from the panel? I'm ~220 lbs
and I don't have any trouble getting up under my panel on what seems like a
regular basis (often doing some sort of mod or upgrade or serial wiring
"projects"). I don't have any obstruction in the center of my cockpit.
I take the passenger seat out and put down 1" thick gardening knee pads.
One pad goes on the seat pan, backed up to the flap tube, and the other goes
in front of that one on the ramp of the seat pan, over the control column
and the spar. I then lay down a folded moving pad over that. That's it. I
get in, sit my butt on the seat pan facing aft, stretch my legs out until my
feet are up against the baggage wall, then just tilt my upper body to the
left of the plane, and my head & torso are under the panel. I can reach
everything pretty easily from there. Sometimes I go on my belly instead of
my back, but I'm usually on my back. Other than not having a lot of head
support (sometimes I stack a couple of pillows on the pax floor), it's
actually not that uncomfortable!
It's nowhere near as bad as everybody says it is, but then again I don't
have any obstructions in the cockpit like a center pedestal and what not.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@yahoo.com>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 5:02 AM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: Rudder Pedal Travel
> it ironic this question came up today.
>
> Last nite I worked to move the rudder pedal assembly rearward
> one 'notch'.
>
> I drilled holes to be able the set the assembly at several different
> positions.
>
> Man was it a b+++ch to remove the bolts and replace. I am sore in
> alot of spots this morning. When I finished I could only imagine how
> a 250 lb guy could wiggle up under the panel. I'm only 155ish and it
> was a struggle for me.
>
> I really have no technical info to add. Other than I set the seat
> back toward the rear and now I have moved the rudder pedals toward
> the rear.
>
> If I were repeating last evening I would just move the seat forward.
>
> live and learn
>
> cary rhodes
> --- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "gsuit45" <gsuit@e...> wrote:
>>
>> Anyone flying an RV:
>> What is the range of motion, fore and aft, of your rudder pedals?
> I'm
>> trying to decide exactly where to drill mine. I can sit in my
> fuse,
>> with my oregon aero cushions and get a rough idea, but I have short
>> legs. And my concern is the rudder cable attach point hitting the
> F-
>> 902 bulkhead.
>>
>> Also, did anyone chop their stick length down, and if so, what
>> reprocussions came of it? Harder to move in flight, etc...
>>
>> Clayton Henderson
>> Beaumont, TX
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@...> Time: Tue Nov 8, 2005 8:43 am PST Link
Cary Rhodes wrote:
> it ironic this question came up today.
>
> Last nite I worked to move the rudder pedal assembly rearward
> one 'notch'.
>
> I drilled holes to be able the set the assembly at several different
> positions.
>
> Man was it a b+++ch to remove the bolts and replace. I am sore in
> alot of spots this morning. When I finished I could only imagine how
> a 250 lb guy could wiggle up under the panel. I'm only 155ish and it
> was a struggle for me.
Cary, I feel yore pain! :-)
I had to remove the rudder pedals in my RV-6 a few years ago to perform
the pedal gusset service bulletin. I have since recommended to all
builders for which I done an EAA Tech inspection that they split the
plastic blocks that secure the pedal tubes to the fuse. A horizontal cut
through the blocks will *greatly* reduce the effort required to work the
tubes around so they will come free from the blocks. It will be
necessary to add a washer between the halves of the block to take the
place of the saw kerf but the blocks will still work as designed.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, ~700 hrs)
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Author: Martin Gomez <mlg28@...> Time: Tue Nov 8, 2005 8:42 am PST Link
What I'm wondering is how the brake lines accomodate moving the pedals?
I left a bit of slack in all the brake lines, but I bet if I tried to
move them more than an inch, I would not be happy with how the brake
lines ended up...either too much slack, or too tight.
Cary Rhodes wrote:
>it ironic this question came up today.
>
>Last nite I worked to move the rudder pedal assembly rearward
>one 'notch'.
>
>I drilled holes to be able the set the assembly at several different
>positions.
>
>Man was it a b+++ch to remove the bolts and replace. I am sore in
>alot of spots this morning. When I finished I could only imagine how
>a 250 lb guy could wiggle up under the panel. I'm only 155ish and it
>was a struggle for me.
>
>I really have no technical info to add. Other than I set the seat
>back toward the rear and now I have moved the rudder pedals toward
>the rear.
>
>If I were repeating last evening I would just move the seat forward.
>
>live and learn
>
>cary rhodes
--
Martin Gomez
MLG28@cornell.edu
http://www.bashingaluminum.com
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Author: "Hugh Tyler (SunGard-Chico)" <hugh@...> Time: Tue Nov 8, 2005 11:44 am PST Link
"What is the range of motion, fore and aft, of your rudder pedals? I'm
trying to decide exactly where to drill mine. I can sit in my fuse,
with my oregon aero cushions and get a rough idea, but I have short
legs. And my concern is the rudder cable attache point hitting the
F-902 bulkhead."
I'm not flying yet but I'll toss this in my "findings". I am guessing
that you are planning to have a couple of settings for your petals.
1) The "shortest leg" setting will determine where you drill the hole in
the F-902 bulkhead. You may end up drilling the F-902 hole approx 1/4"
above where the plans state (this all depends on where you set the
rudders).
2) The pilot side F-902 hole is more critical due to the outboard rudder
petal being closer to the F-902 bulkhead on the pilot side. When I say
"critical" I mean that it is more likely that you will have to deviate
from the plans.
3) If you don't quite "nail it", Vans sells thin walled bushings of the
same outside diameter as those called for in the plans. They effectively
give you more clearance for the rudder cable. Sorry, no idea on that
part number.
Good luck.
Hugh "McFly"
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Author: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@...> Time: Tue Nov 8, 2005 11:44 am PST Link
yep Dan I have a center console and a panel that extends below the
standard instrument panel a couple inches.
so the neighborhood gets tight.
I too use cushions and pads and even the dog's bed on occasions.
I'm carrying this fuel filter around in my pocket today trying to get
the inspiration to change out the gascolator on the evening shift.
still in an internal debate. the darn thing is already there and
works and don't leak.
cary r
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Checkoway" <dan@r...> wrote:
>
> Cary,
>
> Do you have a center "pedestal" coming down from the panel? I'm
~220 lbs
> and I don't have any trouble getting up under my panel on what
seems like a
> regular basis (often doing some sort of mod or upgrade or serial
wiring
> "projects"). I don't have any obstruction in the center of my
cockpit.
>
> I take the passenger seat out and put down 1" thick gardening knee
pads.
> One pad goes on the seat pan, backed up to the flap tube, and the
other goes
> in front of that one on the ramp of the seat pan, over the control
column
> and the spar. I then lay down a folded moving pad over that.
That's it. I
> get in, sit my butt on the seat pan facing aft, stretch my legs out
until my
> feet are up against the baggage wall, then just tilt my upper body
to the
> left of the plane, and my head & torso are under the panel. I can
reach
> everything pretty easily from there. Sometimes I go on my belly
instead of
> my back, but I'm usually on my back. Other than not having a lot
of head
> support (sometimes I stack a couple of pillows on the pax floor),
it's
> actually not that uncomfortable!
>
> It's nowhere near as bad as everybody says it is, but then again I
don't
> have any obstructions in the cockpit like a center pedestal and
what not.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@y...>
> To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 5:02 AM
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] Re: Rudder Pedal Travel
> > it ironic this question came up today.
> >
> > Last nite I worked to move the rudder pedal assembly rearward
> > one 'notch'.
> >
> > I drilled holes to be able the set the assembly at several
different
> > positions.
> >
> > Man was it a b+++ch to remove the bolts and replace. I am sore in
> > alot of spots this morning. When I finished I could only imagine
how
> > a 250 lb guy could wiggle up under the panel. I'm only 155ish
and it
> > was a struggle for me.
> >
> > I really have no technical info to add. Other than I set the seat
> > back toward the rear and now I have moved the rudder pedals toward
> > the rear.
> >
> > If I were repeating last evening I would just move the seat
forward.
> >
> > live and learn
> >
> > cary rhodes
> > --- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "gsuit45" <gsuit@e...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Anyone flying an RV:
> >> What is the range of motion, fore and aft, of your rudder pedals?
> > I'm
> >> trying to decide exactly where to drill mine. I can sit in my
> > fuse,
> >> with my oregon aero cushions and get a rough idea, but I have
short
> >> legs. And my concern is the rudder cable attach point hitting
the
> > F-
> >> 902 bulkhead.
> >>
> >> Also, did anyone chop their stick length down, and if so, what
> >> reprocussions came of it? Harder to move in flight, etc...
> >>
> >> Clayton Henderson
> >> Beaumont, TX
> > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> > www.vansaircraft.net
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Tue Nov 8, 2005 1:20 pm PST Link
> 3) If you don't quite "nail it", Vans sells thin walled bushings of the
> same outside diameter as those called for in the plans. They effectively
> give you more clearance for the rudder cable. Sorry, no idea on that
> part number.
SB625-8 instead of SB625-7. I used the -8s for most of the wiring runs as
well. You get another 1/16" inner diameter without having to drill any
larger hole (still a 5/8" hole).
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
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Author: Dave Nellis <truflite@...> Time: Tue Nov 8, 2005 8:00 pm PST Link
Instead of using a washer to space the blocks out for
the kerf, split them during construction, face the cut
surface on a mill or drill press, then drill them for
the rudder pedal tube centering on the split. I
understand what you have done is already done, but
this may help others.
Dave Nellis
--- Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> Cary Rhodes wrote:
> > it ironic this question came up today.
> >
> > Last nite I worked to move the rudder pedal
> assembly rearward
> > one 'notch'.
> >
> > I drilled holes to be able the set the assembly at
> several different
> > positions.
> >
> > Man was it a b+++ch to remove the bolts and
> replace. I am sore in
> > alot of spots this morning. When I finished I
> could only imagine how
> > a 250 lb guy could wiggle up under the panel. I'm
> only 155ish and it
> > was a struggle for me.
> Cary, I feel yore pain! :-)
>
> I had to remove the rudder pedals in my RV-6 a few
> years ago to perform
> the pedal gusset service bulletin. I have since
> recommended to all
> builders for which I done an EAA Tech inspection
> that they split the
> plastic blocks that secure the pedal tubes to the
> fuse. A horizontal cut
> through the blocks will *greatly* reduce the effort
> required to work the
> tubes around so they will come free from the blocks.
> It will be
> necessary to add a washer between the halves of the
> block to take the
> place of the saw kerf but the blocks will still work
> as designed.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, ~700 hrs)
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