Author: Mark Lancaster <mlancast2004@...> Time: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:39 pm PST Link
Group,
I would like to use CherryMax Rivets to attach my leading edge ribs to the spar, as I have attempted to drive solid rivets on the easier to reach ribs. For those that have gone this route before could someone call out the correct CherryMax Rivets. Head Style = Universal. Material: Aluminum or Monel? What is Monel, anyway? Diameter = -4 for a #30 hole. What length (and/or grip lenght)? It will take two different lengths correct? Any major problems with this approach? I have seen references to it in the past.
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Author: "Brad Bellamy" <rvbuilder@...> Time: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:01 pm PST Link
Mark,
I struggled with solid rivets for the leading edge ribs to the spar on one
wing back in 2003. I asked Van's reps at an airshow and also called the
tech line. I finished off the first wing leading edge ribs to spar with
blind rivets and only used blind rivets on the second wing leading edge ribs
to spar.
I was told...
Scott 5/17/03 at SWRFI - MSP42 or CCR-4s type, but whatever was needed for
the right grip length
Gus 5/20 phone - LP4-3s Aluminum with Steel mandrel, also AVEX or MSP-42s.
But use the right grip length
So I ended up using MSP42, MSP43, and MSP44. Probably ordered them from
Aircraft Spruce
For each wing I used:
5 MSP43s on the outside rib (attaches wing rib and leading edge rib to
spar)
10 MSP42s on the next two ribs (attaches leading edge rib to spar)
15 MSP44s on the next three ribs (attaches leading edge rib to spar and
doubler plate)
Check the specs of the rivets and do the math to make sure the grip length
is right. Just measure parts and add them up and select the right grip
length.
I had to grind down the nose of a rivet puller to get in the tight spaces.
I also had to cut the handles shorter so they would fit between the ribs.
I used a tie down strap to hook at an angle between the front and rear spars
so I could pull the rear spar over and give myself more clearance for the
puller.
Brad
Austin
7A slow build fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Mark Lancaster
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:20 PM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] CherryMax for Leading Edge Ribs to Spar
Group,
I would like to use CherryMax Rivets to attach my leading edge ribs to
the spar, as I have attempted to drive solid rivets on the easier to reach
ribs. For those that have gone this route before could someone call out the
correct CherryMax Rivets. Head Style = Universal. Material: Aluminum or
Monel? What is Monel, anyway? Diameter = -4 for a #30 hole. What length
(and/or grip lenght)? It will take two different lengths correct? Any
major problems with this approach? I have seen references to it in the
past.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: Roger Fuller <fullerra@...> Time: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:22 am PST Link
Per either Gus or Scott at Van's I used LP4-3's and LP4-4's, depending on
location. EAA tech inspector was fine with it as well.
Roger Fuller
RV-7 Wings near complpetion.
_____
From: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Lancaster
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:20 PM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] CherryMax for Leading Edge Ribs to Spar
Group,
I would like to use CherryMax Rivets to attach my leading edge ribs to the
spar, as I have attempted to drive solid rivets on the easier to reach ribs.
For those that have gone this route before could someone call out the
correct CherryMax Rivets. Head Style = Universal. Material: Aluminum or
Monel? What is Monel, anyway? Diameter = -4 for a #30 hole. What length
(and/or grip lenght)? It will take two different lengths correct? Any
major problems with this approach? I have seen references to it in the
past.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Author: "Michael Regen" <capflyer071@...> Time: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:22 am PST Link
I tried the blind rivet method and found it very difficult to fit the
rivet puller in the small spaces. Ended up just using solid rivets.
Ground down the side of my cupped offset rivet set and went at it. I
found this to be way too easy. The lightening holes are large enough
to fit you arm through to hold the bucking bar. Not sure why I even
attempted using blind rivets other than reading that it was easier,
but alas it was not. The aeilerons were much more difficult to rivet
than these.
IMHO..Try the solid rivet method first on the remaining ribs instead
of worring about what size and type of blind rivet to use.
Mike R.
Wings...DONE! Fuselage here in two weeks
N174MR reserved
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Brad Bellamy" <rvbuilder@b...> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> I struggled with solid rivets for the leading edge ribs to the spar
on one
> wing back in 2003. I asked Van's reps at an airshow and also called the
> tech line. I finished off the first wing leading edge ribs to spar with
> blind rivets and only used blind rivets on the second wing leading
edge ribs
> to spar.
>
> I was told...
> Scott 5/17/03 at SWRFI - MSP42 or CCR-4s type, but whatever was
needed for
> the right grip length
> Gus 5/20 phone - LP4-3s Aluminum with Steel mandrel, also AVEX or
MSP-42s.
> But use the right grip length
>
> So I ended up using MSP42, MSP43, and MSP44. Probably ordered them from
> Aircraft Spruce
> For each wing I used:
> 5 MSP43s on the outside rib (attaches wing rib and leading edge rib to
> spar)
> 10 MSP42s on the next two ribs (attaches leading edge rib to spar)
> 15 MSP44s on the next three ribs (attaches leading edge rib to spar and
> doubler plate)
>
> Check the specs of the rivets and do the math to make sure the grip
length
> is right. Just measure parts and add them up and select the right grip
> length.
>
> I had to grind down the nose of a rivet puller to get in the tight
spaces.
> I also had to cut the handles shorter so they would fit between the
ribs.
>
> I used a tie down strap to hook at an angle between the front and
rear spars
> so I could pull the rear spar over and give myself more clearance
for the
> puller.
>
> Brad
> Austin
> 7A slow build fuselage
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf
> Of Mark Lancaster
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:20 PM
> To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] CherryMax for Leading Edge Ribs to Spar
> Group,
>
> I would like to use CherryMax Rivets to attach my leading edge
ribs to
> the spar, as I have attempted to drive solid rivets on the easier to
reach
> ribs. For those that have gone this route before could someone call
out the
> correct CherryMax Rivets. Head Style = Universal. Material: Aluminum or
> Monel? What is Monel, anyway? Diameter = -4 for a #30 hole. What
length
> (and/or grip lenght)? It will take two different lengths correct? Any
> major problems with this approach? I have seen references to it in the
> past.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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Author: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@...> Time: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:07 am PST Link
I agree with this. I too was led to believe blinds would be easier, but had
no trouble bucking them. There have been harder things to do.
Bevan
RV7A plumbing the cabin for fuel and brakes.
-----Original Message-----
From: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Michael Regen
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:52 AM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] CherryMax for Leading Edge Ribs to Spar
I tried the blind rivet method and found it very difficult to fit the rivet
puller in the small spaces. Ended up just using solid rivets.
Ground down the side of my cupped offset rivet set and went at it. I found
this to be way too easy. The lightening holes are large enough
to fit you arm through to hold the bucking bar. Not sure why I even
attempted using blind rivets other than reading that it was easier, but alas
it was not. The aeilerons were much more difficult to rivet than these.
IMHO..Try the solid rivet method first on the remaining ribs instead of
worring about what size and type of blind rivet to use.
Mike R.
Wings...DONE! Fuselage here in two weeks N174MR reserved
--- In RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com, "Brad Bellamy" <rvbuilder@b...> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> I struggled with solid rivets for the leading edge ribs to the spar
on one
> wing back in 2003. I asked Van's reps at an airshow and also called
> the tech line. I finished off the first wing leading edge ribs to
> spar with blind rivets and only used blind rivets on the second wing
> leading
edge ribs
> to spar.
>
> I was told...
> Scott 5/17/03 at SWRFI - MSP42 or CCR-4s type, but whatever was
needed for
> the right grip length
> Gus 5/20 phone - LP4-3s Aluminum with Steel mandrel, also AVEX or
MSP-42s.
> But use the right grip length
>
> So I ended up using MSP42, MSP43, and MSP44. Probably ordered them
> from Aircraft Spruce For each wing I used:
> 5 MSP43s on the outside rib (attaches wing rib and leading edge rib
> to
> spar)
> 10 MSP42s on the next two ribs (attaches leading edge rib to spar)
> 15 MSP44s on the next three ribs (attaches leading edge rib to spar
> and doubler plate)
>
> Check the specs of the rivets and do the math to make sure the grip
length
> is right. Just measure parts and add them up and select the right
> grip length.
>
> I had to grind down the nose of a rivet puller to get in the tight
spaces.
> I also had to cut the handles shorter so they would fit between the
ribs.
>
> I used a tie down strap to hook at an angle between the front and
rear spars
> so I could pull the rear spar over and give myself more clearance
for the
> puller.
>
> Brad
> Austin
> 7A slow build fuselage
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf
> Of Mark Lancaster
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:20 PM
> To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] CherryMax for Leading Edge Ribs to Spar
> Group,
>
> I would like to use CherryMax Rivets to attach my leading edge
ribs to
> the spar, as I have attempted to drive solid rivets on the easier to
reach
> ribs. For those that have gone this route before could someone call
out the
> correct CherryMax Rivets. Head Style = Universal. Material: Aluminum
> or Monel? What is Monel, anyway? Diameter = -4 for a #30 hole. What
length
> (and/or grip lenght)? It will take two different lengths correct?
> Any major problems with this approach? I have seen references to it
> in the past.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get
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Yahoo! Groups Links
Author: "Bill Swaim" <bill@...> Time: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:21 pm PST Link
I had the same problem setting those rivets & received approval from Vans to use CherryMax in that location. They snap off flush & may be inspected (remain flush). They are expensive though at .40 -.50 each!
Use the Aircraft Spruce catalog for reference (page 100?). I used CR3213-4-2 for the short ones & CR3213-4-4 for the long ones.
I also substituted CM for the 1/8" rivets in the Ailerons & Flaps - CR3212-4 for flush & CR3213-4 for universal. CM are structural rivets and overkill for all these locations, but it just gives me a warm fuzzy. Just make certain that you get the length correct!!
Bill Swaim
Slow Build Fuselage
N615KS Reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Lancaster
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:20 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] CherryMax for Leading Edge Ribs to Spar
Group,
I would like to use CherryMax Rivets to attach my leading edge ribs to the spar, as I have attempted to drive solid rivets on the easier to reach ribs. For those that have gone this route before could someone call out the correct CherryMax Rivets. Head Style = Universal. Material: Aluminum or Monel? What is Monel, anyway? Diameter = -4 for a #30 hole. What length (and/or grip lenght)? It will take two different lengths correct? Any major problems with this approach? I have seen references to it in the past.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Rolland Fearnow" <colfearnow@...> Time: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:02 pm PST Link
Hello Mark,
Per Van's, I used LP4-4s blind rivets on two of the L.E. ribs. I too had
trouble hammering standard 427s in the tight places (my helper had very
short arms and is in his 70s). You might want to brush a little primer in
the holes before you set the rivets to help reduce the possibility of
reaction/corrosion 10-40 years from now.
Ron F.
Akron, Indiana (flying out of Rochester, IN...KRCR)
finishing right wing...
Fus. kit on order.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Lancaster" <mlancast2004@...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:20 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] CherryMax for Leading Edge Ribs to Spar
> Group,
>
> I would like to use CherryMax Rivets to attach my leading edge ribs to
the spar, as I have attempted to drive solid rivets on the easier to reach
ribs. For those that have gone this route before could someone call out the
correct CherryMax Rivets. Head Style = Universal. Material: Aluminum or
Monel? What is Monel, anyway? Diameter = -4 for a #30 hole. What length
(and/or grip lenght)? It will take two different lengths correct? Any
major problems with this approach? I have seen references to it in the
past.
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Author: "COL R. Fearnow" <colfearnow@...> Time: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:36 am PST Link
To all... AN470 rivets, not 427s.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rolland Fearnow <colfearnow@...>
Sent: Nov 16, 2005 6:34 PM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] CherryMax for Leading Edge Ribs to Spar
Hello Mark,
Per Van's, I used LP4-4s blind rivets on two of the L.E. ribs. I too had
trouble hammering standard 427s in the tight places (my helper had very
short arms and is in his 70s). You might want to brush a little primer in
the holes before you set the rivets to help reduce the possibility of
reaction/corrosion 10-40 years from now.
Ron F.
Akron, Indiana (flying out of Rochester, IN...KRCR)
finishing right wing...
Fus. kit on order.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Lancaster" <mlancast2004@...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:20 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] CherryMax for Leading Edge Ribs to Spar
> Group,
>
> I would like to use CherryMax Rivets to attach my leading edge ribs to
the spar, as I have attempted to drive solid rivets on the easier to reach
ribs. For those that have gone this route before could someone call out the
correct CherryMax Rivets. Head Style = Universal. Material: Aluminum or
Monel? What is Monel, anyway? Diameter = -4 for a #30 hole. What length
(and/or grip lenght)? It will take two different lengths correct? Any
major problems with this approach? I have seen references to it in the
past.
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
Yahoo! Groups Links
Dir., Host Nation Support
G1, Acting
G3, Ranges
Author: "gombey2001" <gombey2001@...> Time: Sat Jan 7, 2006 5:45 am PST Link
I used structural CherryMax rivets from Spruce (MSP43) to attach
some of the leading edge center ribs....
This may not be obvious to all: Put the squeezer and rivet on the
INSIDE (enclosed) section of the leading edge....the rivet and
squeezer fit right in the hole in the tip rib flange. Some builders
say they are "grinding down" the side of the rivet puller, which is
not necessary from above.
Here's the downside.... getting the leverage to pull that squeezer
requires a lot of struggling & grunting & cussin.
I used the double-offset rivet gun attachment and conventional AN470
rivets on some ribs too. Once you develop the feel for bucking
those "by feel" its not really that hard. One thing that helped me
keep from destroying the round rivet head with smiles.... wrapped
the entire offset driver, spring, and rivet gun top with DUCT TAPE
to keep it from moving around while riveting... Also ground the
side of the double-offset tip to get in closer to the mis-designed
ribs...and wrapped the tip with masking tape to prevent scratching
the spar & ribs.
Enjoy!
Waldo