Author: "jd043west" <jd043west@...> Time: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:34 am PST Link
I've noticed several pics of people using a c-frame to do some
riveting on the emp (spars?). Since I have a DRDT-2 ExperimentalAero
dimpler, I don't have a c-frame dimpler. Do you really need a c-frame
to do some of the riveting on the emp?
Author: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@...> Time: Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:58 am PST Link
No. As near as I can tell (and I'm pretty much done with the airframe), you
can build the whole plane without NEEDING a C-frame for the actual riveting.
I was browing thrugh the Cleaveland catalog today and see where one of their
selling poitns for their version was being able to assure the rivet set is
perfectly straight for riveting stiffeners to certain control surfaces. Man,
I can't think of anything on the plane any easier than regular old
back-riveting those things.
-----Original Message-----
From: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of jd043west
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:12 PM
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] C-Frame to rivet parts of empennage
I've noticed several pics of people using a c-frame to do some
riveting on the emp (spars?). Since I have a DRDT-2 ExperimentalAero
dimpler, I don't have a c-frame dimpler. Do you really need a c-frame
to do some of the riveting on the emp?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:59 am PST Link
No, you don't NEED it, but it sure comes in handy sometimes. It's kind of
like a gigantic longeron yoke. If I was made of money I'd have both the
C-frame and the DRDT-2.
If you've never thought to rivet with your C-frame, check out the March
issue of Kitplanes (when it comes out).
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jd043west" <jd043west@...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] C-Frame to rivet parts of empennage
> I've noticed several pics of people using a c-frame to do some
> riveting on the emp (spars?). Since I have a DRDT-2 ExperimentalAero
> dimpler, I don't have a c-frame dimpler. Do you really need a c-frame
> to do some of the riveting on the emp?
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Author: Frank Stringham <fstringham7a@...> Time: Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:57 pm PST Link
Hi to all
I have both the C-frame and DRDT-2. I have used both and couldn't build with out them.............but...............the DRDT-2 came near the end of the empennage build process. It's only $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I believe that the DRDT-2 is not needed to build the plane but it sure makes life easy. Considering the total cost of the project the DRDT-2 cost is very small.
My .000000000000000000002 cents
Frank @ SGU and SLC
Dan Checkoway <dan@...> wrote:
No, you don't NEED it, but it sure comes in handy sometimes. It's kind of
like a gigantic longeron yoke. If I was made of money I'd have both the
C-frame and the DRDT-2.
If you've never thought to rivet with your C-frame, check out the March
issue of Kitplanes (when it comes out).
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jd043west" <jd043west@...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] C-Frame to rivet parts of empennage
> I've noticed several pics of people using a c-frame to do some
> riveting on the emp (spars?). Since I have a DRDT-2 ExperimentalAero
> dimpler, I don't have a c-frame dimpler. Do you really need a c-frame
> to do some of the riveting on the emp?
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "RV7and7A" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV7and7A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "bobbarrow747" <bobbarrow10@...> Time: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:08 pm PST Link
> Dan Checkoway <dan@r...> wrote:
> No, you don't NEED it, but it sure comes in handy sometimes.
It's kind of
> like a gigantic longeron yoke. If I was made of money I'd have
both the
> C-frame and the DRDT-2.
>
> If you've never thought to rivet with your C-frame, check out the
March
> issue of Kitplanes (when it comes out).
I'm with Dan on this one. I've used the C-frame most successfully
for rivetting at several notoriously difficult locations. The only
people who will say it's not handy are those who have been too
unimaginative to actually use it for rivetting. In some tight and
critical locations it provides just the necessary control to
slowly "squeeze" up a rivet and keep the die set face perpendicular
to the rivet. Conclusion: Highly recommended for a quality finish in
some difficult areas.
Author: "Merems" <merems@...> Time: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:47 am PST Link
Gents,
I have never used a c-frame and have built one RV-4 (plans built spars-Old school) and am finishing an RV-7A.
There are always great tools out there that can help make your project easier to build, more consistent, quite to use, etc.
It is all about the $$$$$$$$ you want to spend to make your project experience more enjoyable. When your project is completed and you no longer need or want your tools you can always sell them on Ebay
There isn't a better feeling when a rivet is set perfectly (maybe sex). Equally there isn't a worse feeling (maybe death) when you have to drill a rivet out or get a dent.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: bobbarrow747
To: RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] C-Frame to rivet parts of empennage
> Dan Checkoway <dan@r...> wrote:
> No, you don't NEED it, but it sure comes in handy sometimes.
It's kind of
> like a gigantic longeron yoke. If I was made of money I'd have
both the
> C-frame and the DRDT-2.
>
> If you've never thought to rivet with your C-frame, check out the
March
> issue of Kitplanes (when it comes out).
I'm with Dan on this one. I've used the C-frame most successfully
for rivetting at several notoriously difficult locations. The only
people who will say it's not handy are those who have been too
unimaginative to actually use it for rivetting. In some tight and
critical locations it provides just the necessary control to
slowly "squeeze" up a rivet and keep the die set face perpendicular
to the rivet. Conclusion: Highly recommended for a quality finish in
some difficult areas.
Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
www.vansaircraft.net
SPONSORED LINKS Aviation school Aviation training Aviation training school
Aviation training schools Cheap plane tickets Plane tickets
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "RV7and7A" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV7and7A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@...> Time: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:48 am PST Link
/ for rivetting at several notoriously difficult locations. The only
/. people who will say it's not handy
So far, nobody has said that, AFAIK. The question regarded "need."
/ unimaginative to actually use it for rivetting. In some tight and
/ critical locations it provides just the necessary control to
/ slowly "squeeze" up a rivet and keep the die set face perpendicular
/ to the rivet. Conclusion: Highly recommended for a quality finish in
/ some difficult areas.
Give the guy specifics. What areas specifically did you use the C-frame for
riveting?
BTW, it also depends on what C-frame you use. Some guys like to use a long
rivet set inserted in the C-frame. On some c-frames, the rivet set won't
fit.
Another question, though, it's becoming an increasing phenonmenon that when
someone asks for an opinion on a method, someone will offer their personal
experience -- which is quite helpful -- and, invevitably, we're off and
running on another thread with someone else offering their opinion BUT
throwing in a "shot" or two about the imagination or other character flaw
in someone else who did it differently -- which is not good.
Why do people feel the need to do that? What is the overall value of that to
the guy asking the question? That the other person's information is invalid
because he/she is of flawed character?
I don't think that's helpful.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:27 pm PST Link
> Give the guy specifics. What areas specifically did you use the C-frame
for
> riveting?
Baffles are one example. Some areas were too deep to reach with any
squeezer I had, and there wasn't really enough structure there to secure to
the bench or vise for shooting/bucking. It would have gotten beaten up.
Didn't want to use pop rivets. C-frame was the perfect choice imho. One
hand holds the work, the other hand holds the gun, and there is no question
about alignment, slippage, gun walking, etc.
F-704 is another example. That one I could have secured to the bench & shot
& bucked, but it was much easier (for me) to use the C-frame.
Horizontal stabilizer doublers are another great application for the C-frame
riveting technique, if you don't already have a pneumatic squeezer.
Perfectly level bucktails every time.
> BTW, it also depends on what C-frame you use. Some guys like to use a long
> rivet set inserted in the C-frame. On some c-frames, the rivet set won't
> fit.
FWIW, my C-frame came from Avery, and it included a rivet gun set that is a
shaft exactly sized for the C-frame tube.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (703 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
Author: "jd043west" <jd043west@...> Time: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:52 am PST Link
Thanks guys. The info was most-helpful and you anticipated my next
couple questions - where it was used and what brand/configuration c-frame.
Dan, it was on your site and someone else's that I'd seen the c-framed
used to rivet. Just looked like a good idea and I was wondering where
it might be used.
Thanks again guys.
Author: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@...> Time: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:17 am PST Link
// FWIW, my C-frame came from Avery, and it included a rivet gun set that
is a
shaft exactly sized for the C-frame tube.
Yeah, I think if I were to do it again (money playing a part in not ordering
the fancy thing), I would've bought from Avery precisely for that reason. I
bought the one from Cleveland and, while nice, it has its limitation. I also
built the C-frame table from the included plans. And that's nice too, but
with a limited workspace, I stored the table down in the basement and then
when I wnated to use the c-frame, I'd have to lug it up and then fit the
C-frame under it, true it up with shims and, man, it was such a pain in the
neck that I rearely looked forward to using it.
Good info on the baffles. haven't reached that stage yet. After Darwin's
message on the subject some months ago, can't say I'm looking forward to it
(g)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@...> Time: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:50 am PST Link
> Good info on the baffles. haven't reached that stage yet. After Darwin's
> message on the subject some months ago, can't say I'm looking forward to
> it
> (g)
The baffles are SO friggin' easy if you know what they're supposed to look
like. Van's kit sure makes it simple.
My 4 cents is -- right before you start your cowl & baffles, that is the
single most important point where you NEED to go look at other RVs in
person. Ok, no, you don't NEED to, but I think it would be a really good
idea.
Go find an RV with your exact powerplant & prop, built by somebody you trust
and respect, have 'em take off the cowl, and take a buttload of photos.
Soak it all in.
The only trouble I had with baffles, unless I'm repressing some other
negative experience (which is certainly possible), was that I didn't fully
visualize, up front, how everything was designed to interact (cowl & baffles
in particular).
Building the baffles once you know what goes where is just as easy as any
other metal component on the airframe.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Author: "Rolland Fearnow" <colfearnow@...> Time: Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:15 am PST Link
jd043west,
No, not riveting but you will need a C-Frame tool to dimple your skins--it
does a great job.
Ron Fearnow
7A, wings, Fus on order
----- Original Message -----
From: "jd043west" <jd043west@...>
To: <RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:12 PM
Subject: [RV7Yahoo] C-Frame to rivet parts of empennage
> I've noticed several pics of people using a c-frame to do some
> riveting on the emp (spars?). Since I have a DRDT-2 ExperimentalAero
> dimpler, I don't have a c-frame dimpler. Do you really need a c-frame
> to do some of the riveting on the emp?
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> www.vansaircraft.net
> Yahoo! Groups Links