Author: "Ted Strand" <tstrand@...> Time: Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:22 am PST Link
Ok, now I give. I didn't have a problem with the rudder, or elevators,
but I am having a problem with the ailerons. I have made two of them,
and they both have come out "wavy" on the trailing edge. Also the
rivets don't want to hold the seam together even with moving the rivet
sizes up one. The only thing that I can think of is my drilling
technique on the trailing edge and the wedge may be bad. I thought I
drilled at the angle of the chord line. I also clecoed the edge right
onto the (flat) drill board I was using. All of the other components
fit properly with the matched hole. Any suggestions before I ruin
another batch of parts?
Thanks
-Ted-
-----Original Message-----
From: jlwright72601 [mailto:jlwright72601@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:24 PM
To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Anyone flying with 135 hp?
> operation that O-320 parts tended to be cheaper than O-235. This is
because
I've heard that 0-290 parts are hard to come by and really expensive.
I think I will go with a 150 hp 0-320 or one that will burn Autofuel.
I shot over two hundred rivets today on the HS by myself and only
made one small dent. Whew!
Jim
919 empennage and 662 wing
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Mike Hoover" <mikehoover@...> Time: Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:17 am PST Link
Ted,
I'll be tackling this soon. I heard someone else mention that they didn't
proseal the trailing edge like with the rudder and wished they had. Did you
use the same procedure as with the rudder - prosealing and clecoing to an
angle for curing? That is what I am planning to do. Also, I am planning to
use 3-3.5 rivets instead of the called out 3-3's for the aileron. The rudder
skins and aileron skins are both .016 thick.
Mike
SC
90709 wings...dimpling zillions of skins holes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Strand" <tstrand@strandcentral.com>
To: <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:25 PM
Subject: [RV-9A] Straight Edges
> Ok, now I give. I didn't have a problem with the rudder, or elevators,
> but I am having a problem with the ailerons. I have made two of them,
> and they both have come out "wavy" on the trailing edge. Also the
> rivets don't want to hold the seam together even with moving the rivet
> sizes up one. The only thing that I can think of is my drilling
> technique on the trailing edge and the wedge may be bad. I thought I
> drilled at the angle of the chord line. I also clecoed the edge right
> onto the (flat) drill board I was using. All of the other components
> fit properly with the matched hole. Any suggestions before I ruin
> another batch of parts?
>
> Thanks
>
> -Ted-
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jlwright72601 [mailto:jlwright72601@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:24 PM
> To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Anyone flying with 135 hp?
> > operation that O-320 parts tended to be cheaper than O-235. This is
> because
>
> I've heard that 0-290 parts are hard to come by and really expensive.
> I think I will go with a 150 hp 0-320 or one that will burn Autofuel.
> I shot over two hundred rivets today on the HS by myself and only
> made one small dent. Whew!
> Jim
> 919 empennage and 662 wing
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Matthew" <matthew@...> Time: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:56 am PST Link
Ted,
Are you prosealing the edges first or just trying to rivet them?
What size rivets are you using? Some plans call for 3.0 but most of
us have been using 3.5's.
If you aren't using proseal, I think the plans state to rivet every
10 holes first (starting in the center) and then start riveting in
between.
I think proseal is a good way to go.. spread a very thin layer on the
wedge and cleco it to your flat table for 3 or 4 days. (I left mine
for a week.) I think used the squeezer to set the rivets about half
way then the mushroom set with the back rivet plate to finish them
off. If you use proseal, make sure you squeeze out the excess
proseal between the cleco's or you will get pillowing. If you have
the trailing edge near the edge of your table, I've seen builders use
close pins to clamp in between the cleco's.
Matthew
RV-9A Wings/Fuse
www.n523rv.com
--- In RV-9A@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Strand" <tstrand@s...> wrote:
> Ok, now I give. I didn't have a problem with the rudder, or
elevators,
> but I am having a problem with the ailerons. I have made two of
them,
> and they both have come out "wavy" on the trailing edge. Also the
> rivets don't want to hold the seam together even with moving the
rivet
> sizes up one. The only thing that I can think of is my drilling
> technique on the trailing edge and the wedge may be bad. I thought
I
> drilled at the angle of the chord line. I also clecoed the edge
right
> onto the (flat) drill board I was using. All of the other
components
> fit properly with the matched hole. Any suggestions before I ruin
> another batch of parts?
>
> Thanks
>
> -Ted-
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jlwright72601 [mailto:jlwright72601@y...]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:24 PM
> To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Anyone flying with 135 hp?
> > operation that O-320 parts tended to be cheaper than O-235. This
is
> because
>
> I've heard that 0-290 parts are hard to come by and really
expensive.
> I think I will go with a 150 hp 0-320 or one that will burn
Autofuel.
> I shot over two hundred rivets today on the HS by myself and only
> made one small dent. Whew!
> Jim
> 919 empennage and 662 wing
> Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/1yWplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Ted Strand" <tstrand@...> Time: Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:45 am PST Link
I did not proseal. I didn't see it mentioned in the instructions but
that could be one of the keys. It just seems like everything is a
tighter fit with the ailerons than with the rudder. There also seems to
be a difference in main ribs for the ailerons. They are not symmetrical
like the rudder is.
Maybe someone who has had great results can chime in. It is costing
about $100 for the replacement parts, so I want to be sure and get it
right this time. I would imagine it will be the same thing for the
flaps.
-Ted-
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Hoover [mailto:mikehoover@sc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:12 AM
To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RV-9A] Straight Edges
Ted,
I'll be tackling this soon. I heard someone else mention that they
didn't
proseal the trailing edge like with the rudder and wished they had. Did
you
use the same procedure as with the rudder - prosealing and clecoing to
an
angle for curing? That is what I am planning to do. Also, I am planning
to
use 3-3.5 rivets instead of the called out 3-3's for the aileron. The
rudder
skins and aileron skins are both .016 thick.
Mike
SC
90709 wings...dimpling zillions of skins holes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Strand" <tstrand@strandcentral.com>
To: <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:25 PM
Subject: [RV-9A] Straight Edges
> Ok, now I give. I didn't have a problem with the rudder, or
elevators,
> but I am having a problem with the ailerons. I have made two of them,
> and they both have come out "wavy" on the trailing edge. Also the
> rivets don't want to hold the seam together even with moving the rivet
> sizes up one. The only thing that I can think of is my drilling
> technique on the trailing edge and the wedge may be bad. I thought I
> drilled at the angle of the chord line. I also clecoed the edge right
> onto the (flat) drill board I was using. All of the other components
> fit properly with the matched hole. Any suggestions before I ruin
> another batch of parts?
>
> Thanks
>
> -Ted-
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jlwright72601 [mailto:jlwright72601@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:24 PM
> To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Anyone flying with 135 hp?
> > operation that O-320 parts tended to be cheaper than O-235. This is
> because
>
> I've heard that 0-290 parts are hard to come by and really expensive.
> I think I will go with a 150 hp 0-320 or one that will burn Autofuel.
> I shot over two hundred rivets today on the HS by myself and only
> made one small dent. Whew!
> Jim
> 919 empennage and 662 wing
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/1yWplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Clay R" <clayr_55@...> Time: Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:56 pm PST Link
My ailerons turned out very nice, so I'll chime in.... ;-)
Of the 4 different control surfaces, the ailerons were by far the
most difficult. I couldn't believe how wavy the aft edge was before
everything was drilled and clecoed together.
I built a flat table out of two layers of MDF screwed down to two
straight 2x4s on their narrow side. This was used for the flaps and
ailerons.
I also used a piece of MDF board about 5" wide and as long as the
aileron (or flap) and put it on top of the flap or aileron to hold it
down. About 75lbs of lead shot bags on top kept everything flat
while I did all the drilling. (this is extremely important)
After everything was drilled, I set the rivets in the nose area and
to the spar. Then I drilled new holes into an aluminum angle that I
attached to the edge of the board. (this isn't necessary if you
don't use clothespins in the next step)
I used proseal on the wedge (a very thin layer), clecoed it all to
the angle, and used 2 clothes pins between each cleco for good
measure. I let it all dry for several days.
I just barely set each rivet, starting at each end and the middle,
then put a rivet half way between those rivets, until all the rivets
were in. I completed the flush riveting with a mushroom set without
the rubber guard around it.
I honestly don't know how you could keep the aileron edges straight
without using proseal or something else to hold it together while you
set the rivets.
I just posted a few photos in the "Construction photos" folder of my
aileron after initial drilling and while the proseal was setting up.
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/rv-9a/
--Clay
> Maybe someone who has had great results can chime in. It is costing
> about $100 for the replacement parts, so I want to be sure and get
it
> right this time. I would imagine it will be the same thing for the
> flaps.
>
> -Ted-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: johncclarkva@... Time: Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:51 pm PST Link
By the time I got to the flaps and ailerons I was tired of cleaning clecos.
I wasn't smart enough to let it all dry for several days. I did not use
proseal and the TEs look pretty good, actually much cleaner than the proseal ones
(rudder, elevators). My reloading bench has a flat 3/4 in plywood top. With
all in place, shot bags holding everything down and the TE hanging over the
edge, I set the rivets with a pneumatic squeezer (very slow and careful). The
set was deep enough to be flush on the flush head and the shop head would just
be flush with the high side of the dimple. I then set the whole thing on the
back rivet plate. Each rivet then only took a couple of taps to finish.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: Bob Kelly <mmpi@...> Time: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:30 pm PST Link
Ted,
I haven't done the ailerons or flaps yet, but I had great results on the
tail. I clecoed everything to a drilled angle, used proseal, let it dry
and squeezed the rivets. I did about every tenth half way, then every
fifth, etc. until I had them all about half set. Then I used a modified
rivet set to finish them. I ground the set to the angle of the wedge and
got excellent results. It worked for me; your results may vary.
Bob Kelly, 90854, Wings (Couldn't say that yesterday!!!)
On 03/23/04, Matthew wrote:
> Ted,
>
> Are you prosealing the edges first or just trying to rivet them?
> What size rivets are you using? Some plans call for 3.0 but most of
> us have been using 3.5's.
>
> If you aren't using proseal, I think the plans state to rivet every
> 10 holes first (starting in the center) and then start riveting in
> between.
>
> I think proseal is a good way to go.. spread a very thin layer on the
> wedge and cleco it to your flat table for 3 or 4 days. (I left mine
> for a week.) I think used the squeezer to set the rivets about half
> way then the mushroom set with the back rivet plate to finish them
> off. If you use proseal, make sure you squeeze out the excess
> proseal between the cleco's or you will get pillowing. If you have
> the trailing edge near the edge of your table, I've seen builders use
> close pins to clamp in between the cleco's.
>
> Matthew
> RV-9A Wings/Fuse
> www.n523rv.com
> --- In RV-9A@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Strand" <tstrand@s...> wrote:
>> Ok, now I give. I didn't have a problem with the rudder, or
> elevators,
>> but I am having a problem with the ailerons. I have made two of
> them,
>> and they both have come out "wavy" on the trailing edge. Also the
>> rivets don't want to hold the seam together even with moving the
> rivet
>> sizes up one. The only thing that I can think of is my drilling
>> technique on the trailing edge and the wedge may be bad. I thought
> I
>> drilled at the angle of the chord line. I also clecoed the edge
> right
>> onto the (flat) drill board I was using. All of the other
> components
>> fit properly with the matched hole. Any suggestions before I ruin
>> another batch of parts?
>>
>> Thanks
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "stevehilleo" <stevehill10@...> Time: Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:22 am PST Link
I had a slight problem with the Rudder trailing edge opening up as
the rivets were finally driven especially at the ends . For the flaps
and ailerons I made a back riveting plate from some three inch angle
iron about three foot long. I hung it over the edge of the table and
mounted four alloy feet, made from 1" alloy angle and about 1 " long.
The two feet in the middle pin the trailing edge down and stop it
opening up. The end feet stop the edge curling up. I posted some
(rather poor) photos on the rvsqn group site.. I did get nice
straight edges and very little opening up. I used epoxy on the wedge/
skins as it set quicker and was less messy.I think its importnant not
to use too much of whatever you use otherwise things bulk up and the
rivets are too short.
Steve Hill
--- In RV-9A@yahoogroups.com, Bob Kelly <mmpi@m...> wrote:
> Ted,
>
> I haven't done the ailerons or flaps yet, but I had great results
on the
> tail. I clecoed everything to a drilled angle, used proseal, let
it dry
> and squeezed the rivets. I did about every tenth half way, then
every
> fifth, etc. until I had them all about half set. Then I used a
modified
> rivet set to finish them. I ground the set to the angle of the
wedge and
> got excellent results. It worked for me; your results may vary.
>
> Bob Kelly, 90854, Wings (Couldn't say that yesterday!!!)
>
> On 03/23/04, Matthew wrote:
> > Ted,
> >
> > Are you prosealing the edges first or just trying to rivet them?
> > What size rivets are you using? Some plans call for 3.0 but most
of
> > us have been using 3.5's.
> >
> > If you aren't using proseal, I think the plans state to rivet
every
> > 10 holes first (starting in the center) and then start riveting
in
> > between.
> >
> > I think proseal is a good way to go.. spread a very thin layer on
the
> > wedge and cleco it to your flat table for 3 or 4 days. (I left
mine
> > for a week.) I think used the squeezer to set the rivets about
half
> > way then the mushroom set with the back rivet plate to finish
them
> > off. If you use proseal, make sure you squeeze out the excess
> > proseal between the cleco's or you will get pillowing. If you
have
> > the trailing edge near the edge of your table, I've seen builders
use
> > close pins to clamp in between the cleco's.
> >
> > Matthew
> > RV-9A Wings/Fuse
> > www.n523rv.com
> > --- In RV-9A@yahoogroups.com, "Ted Strand" <tstrand@s...> wrote:
> >> Ok, now I give. I didn't have a problem with the rudder, or
> > elevators,
> >> but I am having a problem with the ailerons. I have made two of
> > them,
> >> and they both have come out "wavy" on the trailing edge. Also
the
> >> rivets don't want to hold the seam together even with moving the
> > rivet
> >> sizes up one. The only thing that I can think of is my drilling
> >> technique on the trailing edge and the wedge may be bad. I
thought
> > I
> >> drilled at the angle of the chord line. I also clecoed the edge
> > right
> >> onto the (flat) drill board I was using. All of the other
> > components
> >> fit properly with the matched hole. Any suggestions before I
ruin
> >> another batch of parts?
> >>
> >> Thanks
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/1yWplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Richard Garforth" <Richard@...> Time: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:42 am PST Link
Ted,
For whats its worth I followed the instructions supplied with my kit to the
letter (no proseal) and size 3 rivets. the result was perfectly straight
flaps,ailerons and rudder and of course no pillowing. I have a minor concern
that size 3 rivets only provide enough material to partially fill the
underside dimples but the plans/instructions say this ok and don't be
tempted to over rivet and fill the dimples. I would be interested if anyone
who has not used proseal or longer rivets has experienced joint failure once
the flying hrs built up ?
Richard
G-RVIX (nearly finished)
----- Original ce essage -----
From: "Ted Strand" <tstrand@strandcentral.com>
To: <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:52 PM
Subject: RE: [RV-9A] Straight Edges
> I did not proseal. I didn't see it mentioned in the instructions but
> that could be one of the keys. It just seems like everything is a
> tighter fit with the ailerons than with the rudder. There also seems to
> be a difference in main ribs for the ailerons. They are not symmetrical
> like the rudder is.
>
> Maybe someone who has had great results can chime in. It is costing
> about $100 for the replacement parts, so I want to be sure and get it
> right this time. I would imagine it will be the same thing for the
> flaps.
>
> -Ted-
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Hoover [mailto:mikehoover@sc.rr.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:12 AM
> To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RV-9A] Straight Edges
>
> Ted,
>
> I'll be tackling this soon. I heard someone else mention that they
> didn't
> proseal the trailing edge like with the rudder and wished they had. Did
> you
> use the same procedure as with the rudder - prosealing and clecoing to
> an
> angle for curing? That is what I am planning to do. Also, I am planning
> to
> use 3-3.5 rivets instead of the called out 3-3's for the aileron. The
> rudder
> skins and aileron skins are both .016 thick.
>
> Mike
> SC
> 90709 wings...dimpling zillions of skins holes
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ted Strand" <tstrand@strandcentral.com>
> To: <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:25 PM
> Subject: [RV-9A] Straight Edges
> > Ok, now I give. I didn't have a problem with the rudder, or
> elevators,
> > but I am having a problem with the ailerons. I have made two of them,
> > and they both have come out "wavy" on the trailing edge. Also the
> > rivets don't want to hold the seam together even with moving the rivet
> > sizes up one. The only thing that I can think of is my drilling
> > technique on the trailing edge and the wedge may be bad. I thought I
> > drilled at the angle of the chord line. I also clecoed the edge right
> > onto the (flat) drill board I was using. All of the other components
> > fit properly with the matched hole. Any suggestions before I ruin
> > another batch of parts?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > -Ted-
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jlwright72601 [mailto:jlwright72601@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:24 PM
> > To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Anyone flying with 135 hp?
> > > operation that O-320 parts tended to be cheaper than O-235. This is
> > because
> >
> > I've heard that 0-290 parts are hard to come by and really expensive.
> > I think I will go with a 150 hp 0-320 or one that will burn Autofuel.
> > I shot over two hundred rivets today on the HS by myself and only
> > made one small dent. Whew!
> > Jim
> > 919 empennage and 662 wing
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Jay Kurtz" <liteplane@...> Time: Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:35 pm PST Link
Ted, My plans call for 3.5 rivets on the rudder and elevator T.E. Idid not use proseal on either and have no problems after 96 hrs.
Jay 125TK
90345
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Garforth
To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [RV-9A] Straight Edges
Ted,
For whats its worth I followed the instructions supplied with my kit to the
letter (no proseal) and size 3 rivets. the result was perfectly straight
flaps,ailerons and rudder and of course no pillowing. I have a minor concern
that size 3 rivets only provide enough material to partially fill the
underside dimples but the plans/instructions say this ok and don't be
tempted to over rivet and fill the dimples. I would be interested if anyone
who has not used proseal or longer rivets has experienced joint failure once
the flying hrs built up ?
Richard
G-RVIX (nearly finished)
----- Original ce essage -----
From: "Ted Strand" <tstrand@strandcentral.com>
To: <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:52 PM
Subject: RE: [RV-9A] Straight Edges
> I did not proseal. I didn't see it mentioned in the instructions but
> that could be one of the keys. It just seems like everything is a
> tighter fit with the ailerons than with the rudder. There also seems to
> be a difference in main ribs for the ailerons. They are not symmetrical
> like the rudder is.
>
> Maybe someone who has had great results can chime in. It is costing
> about $100 for the replacement parts, so I want to be sure and get it
> right this time. I would imagine it will be the same thing for the
> flaps.
>
> -Ted-
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Hoover [mailto:mikehoover@sc.rr.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:12 AM
> To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [RV-9A] Straight Edges
>
> Ted,
>
> I'll be tackling this soon. I heard someone else mention that they
> didn't
> proseal the trailing edge like with the rudder and wished they had. Did
> you
> use the same procedure as with the rudder - prosealing and clecoing to
> an
> angle for curing? That is what I am planning to do. Also, I am planning
> to
> use 3-3.5 rivets instead of the called out 3-3's for the aileron. The
> rudder
> skins and aileron skins are both .016 thick.
>
> Mike
> SC
> 90709 wings...dimpling zillions of skins holes
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ted Strand" <tstrand@strandcentral.com>
> To: <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:25 PM
> Subject: [RV-9A] Straight Edges
> > Ok, now I give. I didn't have a problem with the rudder, or
> elevators,
> > but I am having a problem with the ailerons. I have made two of them,
> > and they both have come out "wavy" on the trailing edge. Also the
> > rivets don't want to hold the seam together even with moving the rivet
> > sizes up one. The only thing that I can think of is my drilling
> > technique on the trailing edge and the wedge may be bad. I thought I
> > drilled at the angle of the chord line. I also clecoed the edge right
> > onto the (flat) drill board I was using. All of the other components
> > fit properly with the matched hole. Any suggestions before I ruin
> > another batch of parts?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > -Ted-
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jlwright72601 [mailto:jlwright72601@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:24 PM
> > To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Anyone flying with 135 hp?
> > > operation that O-320 parts tended to be cheaper than O-235. This is
> > because
> >
> > I've heard that 0-290 parts are hard to come by and really expensive.
> > I think I will go with a 150 hp 0-320 or one that will burn Autofuel.
> > I shot over two hundred rivets today on the HS by myself and only
> > made one small dent. Whew!
> > Jim
> > 919 empennage and 662 wing
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/1yWplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman@...> Time: Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:57 pm PST Link
Richard,
My plane was built before all this fascination with proseal came
about. I used 3.5 rivets and have not had any problems in 125 hours
now.
My question is what are you building? A plane to fly or one to show?
If you follow the directions, you will have a plane that will give
you years if not decades of service.
When I hear of someone ordering new parts because some little ding
occurred during construction, I have to wonder just what type of
plane are they are building. I have a friend who has finally primed
his plane after 6 years and about 700 hours of flying. Is he enjoying
his plane any less because one rivet might be less than perfect or an
edge might be less than perfectly straight?
I have another group of friends who are building a show plane. They
built a perfectly good empanage and decided that they could do better
so they ordered a new kit and started again. Fitting the canopy bow
took over three months. I call it the $100,000 RV-6.
That shinny aluminum that you have been protecting - The first thing
that will be done to paint it is take scotchbrite and scratch the
dickens out of it.
The perfect paint job - It will not survive the first takeoff and
landing without a scratch somewhere. The first annual will certainly
chip some paint somewhere if final assembly does not get there first.
Part of the building process is to learn how to fix something when
you eventually get a ding or dent in it and knowing what ding or dent
has to be fixed.
So build what you can live with. The minor imperfections will not be
seen by teh rest of the world. (When was the last time you noticed a
bad rivet or a minor ding on a plane at a fly-in?)
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL flying 125 hours.
I would be interested if anyone
> who has not used proseal or longer rivets has experienced joint
failure once
> the flying hrs built up ?
> Richard
> G-RVIX (nearly finished)
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/1yWplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: <bsacks65@...> Time: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:36 pm PST Link
Larry,
Very well said! My thoughts exactly.
Bruce Sacks
FWD FUSE
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/1yWplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Jerry Vanatta" <jnv1@...> Time: Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:57 pm PST Link
Good advice. I appraise aircraft all the time. Go look at a thee million
dollar jet and see all the bad rivets, wrinkled skins, rivets set too deep,
rivets not flush. Paint with sags, orange peel, The list goes on and on.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Perryman [mailto:larry-perryman@txucom.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:15 PM
To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Straight Edges
Richard,
My plane was built before all this fascination with proseal came
about. I used 3.5 rivets and have not had any problems in 125 hours
now.
My question is what are you building? A plane to fly or one to show?
If you follow the directions, you will have a plane that will give
you years if not decades of service.
When I hear of someone ordering new parts because some little ding
occurred during construction, I have to wonder just what type of
plane are they are building. I have a friend who has finally primed
his plane after 6 years and about 700 hours of flying. Is he enjoying
his plane any less because one rivet might be less than perfect or an
edge might be less than perfectly straight?
I have another group of friends who are building a show plane. They
built a perfectly good empanage and decided that they could do better
so they ordered a new kit and started again. Fitting the canopy bow
took over three months. I call it the $100,000 RV-6.
That shinny aluminum that you have been protecting - The first thing
that will be done to paint it is take scotchbrite and scratch the
dickens out of it.
The perfect paint job - It will not survive the first takeoff and
landing without a scratch somewhere. The first annual will certainly
chip some paint somewhere if final assembly does not get there first.
Part of the building process is to learn how to fix something when
you eventually get a ding or dent in it and knowing what ding or dent
has to be fixed.
So build what you can live with. The minor imperfections will not be
seen by teh rest of the world. (When was the last time you noticed a
bad rivet or a minor ding on a plane at a fly-in?)
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL flying 125 hours.
I would be interested if anyone
> who has not used proseal or longer rivets has experienced joint
failure once
> the flying hrs built up ?
> Richard
> G-RVIX (nearly finished)
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "dknight12001" <dougknight@...> Time: Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:02 pm PST Link
Larry:
Bravo! tell it like it is! There is the world we live in and
then the OTHER world we would all LIKE to live in. Accept the best
you can do and keep moveing on.
doug
#90625
finish orderd
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/1yWplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Ted Strand" <tstrand@...> Time: Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:02 pm PST Link
Larry,
I will agree with you also except where I feel the part may not be safe.
I have many dings, scratches, a few less than perfect rivets, etc... I
decided a long time ago that my plane will be built for my pleasure
(which means finishing it in this century) and not for show. My rule
has been anything that is structurally wrong must be replaced. I had to
replace one of the skins on the rudder because a dril bit snapped and
the chuck went through the skin. With the ailerons, they were very wavy
and the rivets would not hold. I felt this was a structural problem
after I had drilled the rivets out for the second time. For the $100 on
a 60-100K plane I think it is a small investment to make.
I appreciate all of the suggestions that everyone has provided. I think
the bottom line is that I did not follow the same procedures that I did
for my rudder and elevators. The instructions were a little more
specific in the empennage days so I have learned another lesson. Follow
specific instructions, but if things are vague use the techniques that I
already have experience with.
Thanks all!!!
-Ted-
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Perryman [mailto:larry-perryman@txucom.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:15 PM
To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Straight Edges
Richard,
My plane was built before all this fascination with proseal came
about. I used 3.5 rivets and have not had any problems in 125 hours
now.
My question is what are you building? A plane to fly or one to show?
If you follow the directions, you will have a plane that will give
you years if not decades of service.
When I hear of someone ordering new parts because some little ding
occurred during construction, I have to wonder just what type of
plane are they are building. I have a friend who has finally primed
his plane after 6 years and about 700 hours of flying. Is he enjoying
his plane any less because one rivet might be less than perfect or an
edge might be less than perfectly straight?
I have another group of friends who are building a show plane. They
built a perfectly good empanage and decided that they could do better
so they ordered a new kit and started again. Fitting the canopy bow
took over three months. I call it the $100,000 RV-6.
That shinny aluminum that you have been protecting - The first thing
that will be done to paint it is take scotchbrite and scratch the
dickens out of it.
The perfect paint job - It will not survive the first takeoff and
landing without a scratch somewhere. The first annual will certainly
chip some paint somewhere if final assembly does not get there first.
Part of the building process is to learn how to fix something when
you eventually get a ding or dent in it and knowing what ding or dent
has to be fixed.
So build what you can live with. The minor imperfections will not be
seen by teh rest of the world. (When was the last time you noticed a
bad rivet or a minor ding on a plane at a fly-in?)
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL flying 125 hours.
I would be interested if anyone
> who has not used proseal or longer rivets has experienced joint
failure once
> the flying hrs built up ?
> Richard
> G-RVIX (nearly finished)
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "RICHARD GARFORTH" <Richard@...> Time: Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:22 am PST Link
Larry
Thanks for the injection of realism ! and the positive info on the
structural success of non prosealed edges
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman@txucom.net>
To: <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Straight Edges
> Richard,
>
> My plane was built before all this fascination with proseal came
> about. I used 3.5 rivets and have not had any problems in 125 hours
> now.
>
> My question is what are you building? A plane to fly or one to show?
> If you follow the directions, you will have a plane that will give
> you years if not decades of service.
>
> When I hear of someone ordering new parts because some little ding
> occurred during construction, I have to wonder just what type of
> plane are they are building. I have a friend who has finally primed
> his plane after 6 years and about 700 hours of flying. Is he enjoying
> his plane any less because one rivet might be less than perfect or an
> edge might be less than perfectly straight?
>
> I have another group of friends who are building a show plane. They
> built a perfectly good empanage and decided that they could do better
> so they ordered a new kit and started again. Fitting the canopy bow
> took over three months. I call it the $100,000 RV-6.
>
> That shinny aluminum that you have been protecting - The first thing
> that will be done to paint it is take scotchbrite and scratch the
> dickens out of it.
>
> The perfect paint job - It will not survive the first takeoff and
> landing without a scratch somewhere. The first annual will certainly
> chip some paint somewhere if final assembly does not get there first.
>
> Part of the building process is to learn how to fix something when
> you eventually get a ding or dent in it and knowing what ding or dent
> has to be fixed.
>
> So build what you can live with. The minor imperfections will not be
> seen by teh rest of the world. (When was the last time you noticed a
> bad rivet or a minor ding on a plane at a fly-in?)
>
> Regards
> Larry Perryman
> N194DL flying 125 hours.
> I would be interested if anyone
> > who has not used proseal or longer rivets has experienced joint
> failure once
> > the flying hrs built up ?
> > Richard
> > G-RVIX (nearly finished)
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Larry Perryman" <larry-perryman@...> Time: Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:26 am PST Link
Ted,
I agree whole heartedly with replacing anything that you do not feel
is safe. After watching this list for several years, I have seen a
tendancy to throw out perfectly good parts for minor cosmetic
damage. That is the only area that I wanted to address.
If there is any doubt in your mind that a part might not be sound,
contact VANS or get an A&P to look at it for you.
For something as serious as a big hole in the skin, there is an
acceptable way to patch it that is structurally sound if you do not
want to replace the part. Take a close look at some of the older
spam cans out there.
Either way, heep on building and soon you will have your pride and
joy flying. I agree that the later kits leave more for the builder
to figure out than the emapnage kit. The finish kit is almost "Here
it is" for directions.
Regards
Larry Perryman
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/1yWplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: bflood@... Time: Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:08 am PST Link
Word to your mother. Can I get a witness? I' ve got a few dents and I'm
proud of them!
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Perryman [mailto:larry-perryman@txucom.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:15 PM
To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Straight Edges
Richard,
My plane was built before all this fascination with proseal came
about. I used 3.5 rivets and have not had any problems in 125 hours
now.
My question is what are you building? A plane to fly or one to show?
If you follow the directions, you will have a plane that will give
you years if not decades of service.
When I hear of someone ordering new parts because some little ding
occurred during construction, I have to wonder just what type of
plane are they are building. I have a friend who has finally primed
his plane after 6 years and about 700 hours of flying. Is he enjoying
his plane any less because one rivet might be less than perfect or an
edge might be less than perfectly straight?
I have another group of friends who are building a show plane. They
built a perfectly good empanage and decided that they could do better
so they ordered a new kit and started again. Fitting the canopy bow
took over three months. I call it the $100,000 RV-6.
That shinny aluminum that you have been protecting - The first thing
that will be done to paint it is take scotchbrite and scratch the
dickens out of it.
The perfect paint job - It will not survive the first takeoff and
landing without a scratch somewhere. The first annual will certainly
chip some paint somewhere if final assembly does not get there first.
Part of the building process is to learn how to fix something when
you eventually get a ding or dent in it and knowing what ding or dent
has to be fixed.
So build what you can live with. The minor imperfections will not be
seen by teh rest of the world. (When was the last time you noticed a
bad rivet or a minor ding on a plane at a fly-in?)
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL flying 125 hours.
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/1yWplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~-
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: Rick Sked <heeder777@...> Time: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:26 pm PST Link
Just curious, what point do you consider a smiley or dent a problem, I have a few that are just that small, circle marks that almost disappear when polished out with the scothbrite pad. When is a smiley to deep for comfort. I could not find any reference in the standard book for how deep is too deep. I forget about comparing a Cessna. Piper etc. to this...jeeez I don't think I'll EVER dent the skin as bad as I've seen on those war horses. So maybe I answered my own questions.
Rick Sked
RV-10
40185
bflood@sauer-danfoss.com wrote:
Word to your mother. Can I get a witness? I' ve got a few dents and I'm
proud of them!
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Perryman [mailto:larry-perryman@txucom.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:15 PM
To: RV-9A@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RV-9A] Re: Straight Edges
Richard,
My plane was built before all this fascination with proseal came
about. I used 3.5 rivets and have not had any problems in 125 hours
now.
My question is what are you building? A plane to fly or one to show?
If you follow the directions, you will have a plane that will give
you years if not decades of service.
When I hear of someone ordering new parts because some little ding
occurred during construction, I have to wonder just what type of
plane are they are building. I have a friend who has finally primed
his plane after 6 years and about 700 hours of flying. Is he enjoying
his plane any less because one rivet might be less than perfect or an
edge might be less than perfectly straight?
I have another group of friends who are building a show plane. They
built a perfectly good empanage and decided that they could do better
so they ordered a new kit and started again. Fitting the canopy bow
took over three months. I call it the $100,000 RV-6.
That shinny aluminum that you have been protecting - The first thing
that will be done to paint it is take scotchbrite and scratch the
dickens out of it.
The perfect paint job - It will not survive the first takeoff and
landing without a scratch somewhere. The first annual will certainly
chip some paint somewhere if final assembly does not get there first.
Part of the building process is to learn how to fix something when
you eventually get a ding or dent in it and knowing what ding or dent
has to be fixed.
So build what you can live with. The minor imperfections will not be
seen by teh rest of the world. (When was the last time you noticed a
bad rivet or a minor ding on a plane at a fly-in?)
Regards
Larry Perryman
N194DL flying 125 hours.
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-9A/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RV-9A-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/