Author: bflood@... Time: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:26 am PST Link
Not to play devils advocate here, but there has been allot of discussion
lately about how a throttled back o-320 is just as efficient as an o-235. I
was considering using an o-235 but this argument and that fact that the
o-235 is plain just not supported as well by van's really has steered me
away from the o-235. BUT now it's seeming pretty reasonable to use the
o-360. There was an article in the Aviator not too long ago explaining why
you can't use an o-360 in an RV-9 and the basic conclusion was that it
would go too fast. Especially in cruise where in high turbulence you could
overload the primary structure due to excess speed or cause flutter from
cruising too fast. Nothing was really said about climb. So now I am
assuming that an 0-360 throttled back must be at least close to the fuel
efficiency of an o-320 at high cruise speed plus you would have extra climb
if needed for high alt. or mountain terrain. There are lot's of airplanes
where pushing the throttle all the way forward in one flight regime or
another is a problem. In fact at low air speed where power was needed to
climb or aid in stall recovery you could certainly advance the throttle
fully. The pilot would just have to be mindful of cruise speed, but maybe
could even choose a prop strategically.
Looking for constructive criticism.
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Author: Andy Karmy <andy@...> Time: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:41 am PST Link
The message I heard at Vans homecoming last year was that at least one
of the people that put an 0-360 in his 9 was feeling that it was
overkill. Ended up heavier (close to the forward envelope limit) and
was not as nice landing since the nose wanted to drop more. That's just
what I heard while talking with people there.
Let's not forget that an 0-320 powered 9A is not in need of more power
for climb... I get 1700fpm at sealevel, and was seeing 1200fpm fully
loaded at 70deg at 4500ft last weekend. That's with a FP Sensenich
prop.
- Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA
On Mar 23, 2004, at 8:23 AM, bflood@sauer-danfoss.com wrote:
> Not to play devils advocate here, but there has been allot of
> discussion
> lately about how a throttled back o-320 is just as efficient as an
> o-235. I
> was considering using an o-235 but this argument and that fact that the
> o-235 is plain just not supported as well by van's really has steered
> me
> away from the o-235. BUT now it's seeming pretty reasonable to use the
> o-360. There was an article in the Aviator not too long ago explaining
> why
> you can't use an o-360 in an RV-9 and the basic conclusion was that it
> would go too fast. Especially in cruise where in high turbulence you
> could
> overload the primary structure due to excess speed or cause flutter
> from
> cruising too fast. Nothing was really said about climb. So now I am
> assuming that an 0-360 throttled back must be at least close to the
> fuel
> efficiency of an o-320 at high cruise speed plus you would have extra
> climb
> if needed for high alt. or mountain terrain. There are lot's of
> airplanes
> where pushing the throttle all the way forward in one flight regime or
> another is a problem. In fact at low air speed where power was needed
> to
> climb or aid in stall recovery you could certainly advance the throttle
> fully. The pilot would just have to be mindful of cruise speed, but
> maybe
> could even choose a prop strategically.
>
> Looking for constructive criticism.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
- Andy Karmy
andy@karmy.com
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Author: Bob Kelly <mmpi@...> Time: Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:22 am PST Link
Just wondering about the relative weights of each. Now with ECI offering an
O-360 kit in 160 hp, it becomes an option even Van's should bless. That
is, if weight isn't a problem.
BTW, I understand they are working on an O-320 kit also. Don't know much
about it, but the costs should be in line. Any body know anything on that
one?
Bob Kelly
90854, Wings
>
> Not to play devils advocate here, but there has been allot of discussion
> lately about how a throttled back o-320 is just as efficient as an o-235.
> I was considering using an o-235 but this argument and that fact that the
> o-235 is plain just not supported as well by van's really has steered me
> away from the o-235. BUT now it's seeming pretty reasonable to use the
> o-360. There was an article in the Aviator not too long ago explaining why
> you can't use an o-360 in an RV-9 and the basic conclusion was that it
> would go too fast. Especially in cruise where in high turbulence you could
> overload the primary structure due to excess speed or cause flutter from
> cruising too fast. Nothing was really said about climb. So now I am
> assuming that an 0-360 throttled back must be at least close to the fuel
> efficiency of an o-320 at high cruise speed plus you would have extra
> climb if needed for high alt. or mountain terrain. There are lot's of
> airplanes where pushing the throttle all the way forward in one flight
> regime or another is a problem. In fact at low air speed where power was
> needed to climb or aid in stall recovery you could certainly advance the
> throttle fully. The pilot would just have to be mindful of cruise speed,
> but maybe could even choose a prop strategically.
>
> Looking for constructive criticism.
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Author: "Don Hull" <rv7boy@...> Time: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:14 pm PST Link
Hi Andy...and others,
I don't know if the following story is about the same pilot or not,
but last year I left Oshkosh and landed at Dodge County due to
weather. There were a bunch of pilots who had the same idea that I
did, i.e., get out of Oshkosh and wait for better weather at another
airport. Anyway, there I met two pilots from the Portland Oregon
area. One was a fellow named Jake Thiessen (sp?). I believe his RV-
9A showed up on the 2003 Van's calendar. He is flying with an O-360,
180 hp Lycoming, and I believe he likes it. According to him he gets
excellent fuel economy. If I remember correctly, he said his fuel
economy was better than a friend's O-320 with an electronic
ignition. I can't remember all the particulars about his RV-9A, but
I do remember that he had previously built an RV-4, so this is his
second RV.
I don't know if he is active on this list, but if he is, maybe he
will provide more details.
And if I have mis-quoted him, I apologize.
Don Hull
--- In RV-9A@yahoogroups.com, Andy Karmy <andy@k...> wrote:
> The message I heard at Vans homecoming last year was that at least
one
> of the people that put an 0-360 in his 9 was feeling that it was
> overkill. Ended up heavier (close to the forward envelope limit)
and
> was not as nice landing since the nose wanted to drop more. That's
just
> what I heard while talking with people there.
>
> Let's not forget that an 0-320 powered 9A is not in need of more
power
> for climb... I get 1700fpm at sealevel, and was seeing 1200fpm
fully
> loaded at 70deg at 4500ft last weekend. That's with a FP Sensenich
> prop.
>
> - Andy Karmy
> RV9A Seattle WA
>
> On Mar 23, 2004, at 8:23 AM, bflood@s... wrote:
> > Not to play devils advocate here, but there has been allot of
> > discussion
> > lately about how a throttled back o-320 is just as efficient as
an
> > o-235. I
> > was considering using an o-235 but this argument and that fact
that the
> > o-235 is plain just not supported as well by van's really has
steered
> > me
> > away from the o-235. BUT now it's seeming pretty reasonable to
use the
> > o-360. There was an article in the Aviator not too long ago
explaining
> > why
> > you can't use an o-360 in an RV-9 and the basic conclusion was
that it
> > would go too fast. Especially in cruise where in high turbulence
you
> > could
> > overload the primary structure due to excess speed or cause
flutter
> > from
> > cruising too fast. Nothing was really said about climb. So now I
am
> > assuming that an 0-360 throttled back must be at least close to
the
> > fuel
> > efficiency of an o-320 at high cruise speed plus you would have
extra
> > climb
> > if needed for high alt. or mountain terrain. There are lot's of
> > airplanes
> > where pushing the throttle all the way forward in one flight
regime or
> > another is a problem. In fact at low air speed where power was
needed
> > to
> > climb or aid in stall recovery you could certainly advance the
throttle
> > fully. The pilot would just have to be mindful of cruise speed,
but
> > maybe
> > could even choose a prop strategically.
> >
> > Looking for constructive criticism.
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> - Andy Karmy
> andy@k...
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Author: "Don Hull" <rv7boy@...> Time: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:36 pm PST Link
CONTINUATION OF MY PREVIOUS POST...
I did a Google search and found a photo of Mr. Thiessen's RV-9A on
EAA's page of homebuilts completed in 2003.
See it at
http://www.eaa.org/homebuilders/list/RV-9A_Thiessen.asp
Turns out this is the THIRD RV he has built. Also, if you have
seen his RV, you will notice that his steps look like they are
chrome. I remember him telling me they're just highly polished
aluminum!
Hope you can view the photo okay...and maybe some of the Oregon RV-
ers can tell us more about this 180 hp RV.
Don
P.S. Some of you will notice that I am building an RV-7. Really, it
was a toss-up between a 7 or a 9...and a tough decision. So even
though I am building a 7, I like to keep up with what's going on in
the 9 community.
--- In RV-9A@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hull" <rv7boy@y...> wrote:
> Hi Andy...and others,
> I don't know if the following story is about the same pilot or not,
> but last year I left Oshkosh and landed at Dodge County due to
> weather. There were a bunch of pilots who had the same idea that I
> did, i.e., get out of Oshkosh and wait for better weather at
another
> airport. Anyway, there I met two pilots from the Portland Oregon
> area. One was a fellow named Jake Thiessen (sp?). I believe his
RV-
> 9A showed up on the 2003 Van's calendar. He is flying with an O-
360,
> 180 hp Lycoming, and I believe he likes it. According to him he
gets
> excellent fuel economy. If I remember correctly, he said his fuel
> economy was better than a friend's O-320 with an electronic
> ignition. I can't remember all the particulars about his RV-9A,
but
> I do remember that he had previously built an RV-4, so this is his
> second RV.
> I don't know if he is active on this list, but if he is, maybe he
> will provide more details.
> And if I have mis-quoted him, I apologize.
> Don Hull
> --- In RV-9A@yahoogroups.com, Andy Karmy <andy@k...> wrote:
> > The message I heard at Vans homecoming last year was that at
least
> one
> > of the people that put an 0-360 in his 9 was feeling that it was
> > overkill. Ended up heavier (close to the forward envelope limit)
> and
> > was not as nice landing since the nose wanted to drop more. ...
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Author: "Don Hull" <rv7boy@...> Time: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:53 pm PST Link
ANOTHER CORRECTION...
SNIP> "I believe his RV-
9A showed up on the 2003 Van's calendar."<SNIP
After further thought, I now believe it was the RV-4 of Mr. Thiessen
that was featured on one of the months of the 2003 Van's calendar.
Don
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Author: "ninerriveteer" <brywd@...> Time: Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:10 pm PST Link
Before ordering my engine I talked to another gentlemen in Oregan who
had installed an 0-360 in his 9A. He spent close to an hour trying
to talk me out of doing it in mine. His reason was mostly that the
restricted RPM range on his Hartzell/0-360 made it not work the way
he had hoped. At low altitudes when running the rpm above the
restricted area with any power he would redline the airspeed. If he
backed it off to below the restriction he was slower than an 0-320
was capable of flying. Up high, look out because there was a really
fast RV-9A that will being passing you by. With the prop choices
now, the engine isn't so scary. Doing it again, I might pull the
trigger and get the 0-360. Choices?
Regards,
Bryan Wood
--- In RV-9A@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hull" <rv7boy@y...> wrote:
> ANOTHER CORRECTION...
> SNIP> "I believe his RV-
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Author: "Jim Pack" <jpack@...> Time: Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:18 pm PST Link
I opted for a fuel injected 0-320 with 10/1 pistons and a lightspeed EI on
the lower plugs. Puts out 180hp with the same weight as the 320. Add to it
a CS prop (AeroComposites). No stats yet, but I'll post them when I have
them. I don't expect much better speed, but with field elevation @ 4500 ft
& 9000 ft density altitudes common in summer, I wanted better climb
performance here in the western mountains.
- Jim
RV-9A - Should be flying end of April.
----- Original Message -----
From: "ninerriveteer" <brywd@sbcglobal.net>
To: <RV-9A@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:53 PM
Subject: [RV-9A] Re: o-235 vs. 0-320 vs. 0-360
With the prop choices
> now, the engine isn't so scary. Doing it again, I might pull the
> trigger and get the 0-360. Choices?
>
> Regards,
> Bryan Wood
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