Author: jntambs@... Time: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:03 pm PDT Link
Hi group,
I am working on the rudder of an 8. I was riveting the
405,404,nutplate and spacer assembly to the spar. The plans call for
AN470 4-7 rivets (nutplates 4-8) and this is where I'm having
trouble. With the squeezer (old pneumatic adjusted with washers) the
only time I can get it to squeeze the shop head ends up too thin, I
drilled out several, then tried 4-8's but they were long enough that
they were bending and cracking. Finally I tried to rivet with the
gun and ended up with three smileys! In frustration I quit for
tonight. Any suggestions or thoughts?
Thanks in advance,
Jim Tambs
RV-8
awaiting wing
Author: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@...> Time: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:14 pm PDT Link
Cut the -8 rivets down to a shorter rivet that yields the proper shop head.
Paul Besing
RV-6A N197AB Arizona
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Flying
----- Original Message -----
From: <jntambs@y...>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 6:02 PM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] riveting problems
> Hi group,
>
> I am working on the rudder of an 8. I was riveting the
> 405,404,nutplate and spacer assembly to the spar. The plans call for
> AN470 4-7 rivets (nutplates 4-8) and this is where I'm having
> trouble. With the squeezer (old pneumatic adjusted with washers) the
> only time I can get it to squeeze the shop head ends up too thin, I
> drilled out several, then tried 4-8's but they were long enough that
> they were bending and cracking. Finally I tried to rivet with the
> gun and ended up with three smileys! In frustration I quit for
> tonight. Any suggestions or thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jim Tambs
> RV-8
> awaiting wing
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing (http://www.vansaircraft.net)
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: 3seagulls@... Time: Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:08 pm PDT Link
--- In vansairforce@y..., jntambs@y... wrote:
> ...... Finally I tried to rivet with the
> gun and ended up with three smileys! In frustration I quit for
> tonight. Any suggestions or thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jim Tambs
> RV-8
> awaiting wing
Jim, sometimes knowing when to quit is the best thing ! I had the
same problem on the H/S. I found that riveting with the gun alone
does not work so good, get a bucking buddy. My rivet squeezer was
doing the same thing on the longer rivets. I broke down and bought
an adjustable set from Avery's and the problem was solved. My .02...
get a good night's sleep, get a helping hand, get the right tools
and you will be good to go........ Regards, Mark Cigal #81530
Author: "Eric Newton" <enewton57@...> Time: Thu Aug 23, 2001 6:31 am PDT Link
I agree with Paul - You will find that often the called out rivet is
too long or too short. If too short, go to the next lentgh up. If
too long and you need in between size cut the longer rivet down to
the right length (1 1/2 times the diameter showing before bucking)
Use a good rivet cutter and then touch up the cut edge slightly on
the scotchbright wheel to smooth it.
Hope this helps,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A N57ME (fitting controls)
www.ericsrv6a.com
--- In vansairforce@y..., "Paul Besing" <azpilot@e...> wrote:
> Cut the -8 rivets down to a shorter rivet that yields the proper
shop head.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A N197AB Arizona
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Flying
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jntambs@y...>
> To: <vansairforce@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 6:02 PM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] riveting problems
> > Hi group,
> >
> > I am working on the rudder of an 8. I was riveting the
> > 405,404,nutplate and spacer assembly to the spar. The plans call
for
> > AN470 4-7 rivets (nutplates 4-8) and this is where I'm having
> > trouble. With the squeezer (old pneumatic adjusted with washers)
the
> > only time I can get it to squeeze the shop head ends up too thin,
I
> > drilled out several, then tried 4-8's but they were long enough
that
> > they were bending and cracking. Finally I tried to rivet with the
> > gun and ended up with three smileys! In frustration I quit for
> > tonight. Any suggestions or thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Jim Tambs
> > RV-8
> > awaiting wing
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing (http://www.vansaircraft.net)
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: elbair527@... Time: Thu Aug 23, 2001 7:34 am PDT Link
Jim, Avery and others make a neat little tool to gauge the correct rivet
height as well as the shop head, you may want to look into buying one.
gene
Author: jntambs@... Time: Thu Aug 23, 2001 7:49 am PDT Link
--- In vansairforce@y..., elbair527@c... wrote:
> Jim, Avery and others make a neat little tool to gauge the correct
rivet
> height as well as the shop head, you may want to look into buying
one.
> gene
Gene,
Thanks for the reply, got the gauges, that's what tipped me off. The
squeezed rivets looked real pretty, just to thin. When I stepped up
to the next length rivet they kept bending over and cracking. I
don't think my rivet cutter will adjust to cut a 4-7.5. I tried using
emery cloth to clean up the old washers used to adjust the old style
squeezer and didn't get any closer. With that squeezer everything
has to be set up perfectly and it will work like a charm, if you are
a 16th off it wont squeeze at all. I recall I had that problem when
I was using it years ago, but it seemed easier to get it set up then.
I am going to contact Averys and see if there is anything I can do.
I tried the hand squeezer and on a 4 rivet I about get a hernia,
don't think I could do 10 in a row let alone 100.
Jim
Author: elbair527@... Time: Thu Aug 23, 2001 8:08 am PDT Link
Jim, i had no trouble with my hand squeezer on -4 rivets. rivets will get
harder to squeeze if they are old.
gene
Author: philip condon <pcondon@...> Time: Thu Aug 23, 2001 8:17 am PDT Link
I can all the adjustment I need by shimming out the rivet sets with #10
washers. These washers cime in thin & thick.....Even thou I have a
adjustable Tatco yoke, I have never adjusted it....I use the quick
washer shim trick to make my "adjustments"...
jntambs@y... wrote:
>
> ...My rivet squeezer was
> > doing the same thing on the longer rivets. I broke down and bought
> > an adjustable set from Avery's and the problem was solved. My .02...
> > get a good night's sleep, get a helping hand, get the right tools
> > and you will be good to go........ Regards, Mark Cigal #81530
>
> Thanks Mark,
>
> I bought the adjustable set from Avery's but it does not fit my
> squeezer, mine is about 10 years old, got it from Averys. I am going
> to contact them and see if anything can be done with the old one to
> make it adjustable.
>
> Jim
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing (http://www.vansaircraft.net)
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: "Michael Stewart" <mstewart@...> Time: Thu Aug 23, 2001 10:04 am PDT Link
Ill bet the rivets are old and too hard.
Mike
http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/index.htm
-- In vansairforce@y..., philip condon <pcondon@m...> wrote:
> If the hand squeezer is bending the rivets....it could be the yoke.
I
> have two Tatco yokes, one in one inch the other is three inch. I can
> consistantly get perfect rivets with the 1-inch yoke where the three
> inch yoke will tilt the tail if the rivet about 60% of the time. My
> guess is that there is some side play the three inch yoke is
imparting
> when I squeez the rivet thereby tilting the tail of the rivet.
>
> jntambs@y... wrote:
> >
> > --- In vansairforce@y..., elbair527@c... wrote:
> > > Jim, Avery and others make a neat little tool to gauge the
correct
> > rivet
> > > height as well as the shop head, you may want to look into
buying
> > one.
> > > gene
> >
> > Gene,
> >
> > Thanks for the reply, got the gauges, that's what tipped me off.
The
> > squeezed rivets looked real pretty, just to thin. When I stepped
up
> > to the next length rivet they kept bending over and cracking. I
> > don't think my rivet cutter will adjust to cut a 4-7.5. I tried
using
> > emery cloth to clean up the old washers used to adjust the old
style
> > squeezer and didn't get any closer. With that squeezer everything
> > has to be set up perfectly and it will work like a charm, if you
are
> > a 16th off it wont squeeze at all. I recall I had that problem
when
> > I was using it years ago, but it seemed easier to get it set up
then.
> > I am going to contact Averys and see if there is anything I can
do.
> > I tried the hand squeezer and on a 4 rivet I about get a hernia,
> > don't think I could do 10 in a row let alone 100.
> >
> > Jim
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing (http://www.vansaircraft.net)
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Author: jntambs@... Time: Thu Aug 23, 2001 2:45 pm PDT Link
Just wanted to thank everyone for their responses.
I talked with Bob Avery today and got the adjustable set installed
and functioning, was able to use on the accessible rivets then with
good results. The remainder I drove with the gun, the problem last
night was the pressure was a little too high. I dialed it down from
35 to 25 and obtained better results. Doubt the rivets are too old I
just got the kit Sept of 2000, also have tried a few, after
discussing with Vans of course, old rivets from about 10 years ago
and none of them cracked. We discussed age hardening and cracking
and decided if I got in a bind and ran out it would be ok to use
these if they seemed to set well. I still ordered some new ones I
was running low on. The new day new attitude and refreshed approach
helped.
Thanks again,
Jim
Author: "John B. Snyder" <redynsjb@...> Time: Thu Aug 23, 2001 3:41 pm PDT Link
I have noticed that when using a hand squeezer the
rivets would sometimes bend over and generally mess
things up. Then I found that the squeezer I was using
had been over stressed and the upper and lower parts
of the yoke had been sprung and were not parallel.
This caused the upper and lower rivet sets in the
squeezer to be slanted WRT each other. It doesn't take
much. This will cause BAD rivets. For what its
worth...
RV6A, N247, J Snyder
--- philip condon <pcondon@m...> wrote:
> If the hand squeezer is bending the rivets....it
> could be the yoke. I
> have two Tatco yokes, one in one inch the other is
> three inch. I can
> consistantly get perfect rivets with the 1-inch yoke
> where the three
> inch yoke will tilt the tail if the rivet about 60%
> of the time. My
> guess is that there is some side play the three inch
> yoke is imparting
> when I squeez the rivet thereby tilting the tail of
> the rivet.
>
> jntambs@y... wrote:
> >
> > --- In vansairforce@y..., elbair527@c... wrote:
> > > Jim, Avery and others make a neat little tool to
> gauge the correct
> > rivet
> > > height as well as the shop head, you may want to
> look into buying
> > one.
> > > gene
> >
> > Gene,
> >
> > Thanks for the reply, got the gauges, that's what
> tipped me off. The
> > squeezed rivets looked real pretty, just to thin.
> When I stepped up
> > to the next length rivet they kept bending over
> and cracking. I
> > don't think my rivet cutter will adjust to cut a
> 4-7.5. I tried using
> > emery cloth to clean up the old washers used to
> adjust the old style
> > squeezer and didn't get any closer. With that
> squeezer everything
> > has to be set up perfectly and it will work like a
> charm, if you are
> > a 16th off it wont squeeze at all. I recall I had
> that problem when
> > I was using it years ago, but it seemed easier to
> get it set up then.
> > I am going to contact Averys and see if there is
> anything I can do.
> > I tried the hand squeezer and on a 4 rivet I about
> get a hernia,
> > don't think I could do 10 in a row let alone 100.
> >
> > Jim
--------------------------------------------------------------
> > Van's Air Force - World Wide Wing
> (http://www.vansaircraft.net)
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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