Vans Air Force topic: Trim: Electric vs. Manual

Home -> Vans Air Force topic: Trim: Electric vs. Manual

Author: jerry2dt@... Time: Tue Mar 2, 2004 10:28 am PST Link

Folks...

There's been an lot of chatter here about runaway electric trim and so forth,
and I'm wondering why more don't just opt for manual. It works every time and
no worries. I'm using electric now, and don't find the tradeoffs that
rewarding vs. manual. That's just me, though. I'd also rather have manual flaps after
having two flap motor failures in 30 hours...

Jerry Cochran
Flying N254HL RV6a electric trim
Building N18XP manual trim
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:18:51 -0600
From: "Chuck Stratman" <Pilot93434@...>
Subject: Re: Electric Trim

Jeff,

Curious why you have no trim indicator? Jeff I don't know your background,
you might be a former Blue Angle, but be careful testing full trim at cruise.
The word OVERSTRESS comes to mind.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Author: "Cary Rhodes" <rhodeseng@...> Time: Tue Mar 2, 2004 12:16 pm PST Link

jerry

Did you take a look at the trim cable Van supplies with the kit??

I must weigh 15 lbs. Looks like something you could trim a 747 with.

But I will have to agree that manual things are much more dependable.

my 2 cents

cary rhodes

--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, jerry2dt@a... wrote:
> Folks...
>
> There's been an lot of chatter here about runaway electric trim and
so forth,
> and I'm wondering why more don't just opt for manual. It works
every time and
> no worries. I'm using electric now, and don't find the tradeoffs
that
> rewarding vs. manual. That's just me, though. I'd also rather have
manual flaps after
> having two flap motor failures in 30 hours...
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Flying N254HL RV6a electric trim
> Building N18XP manual trim
> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:18:51 -0600
> From: "Chuck Stratman" <Pilot93434@c...>
> Subject: Re: Electric Trim
>
> Jeff,
>
> Curious why you have no trim indicator? Jeff I don't know your
background,
> you might be a former Blue Angle, but be careful testing full trim
at cruise.
> The word OVERSTRESS comes to mind.

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Author: "Chuck Stratman" <Pilot93434@...> Time: Tue Mar 2, 2004 2:33 pm PST Link

Jerry,

I have never heard of a runaway trim condition in the RV's. Anybody know of one? I do have a trim CB handy in case, but I wouldn't discourage anyone from using the electric servo trim. My concern is that someone would want to test a full up/down trim condition at cruise.

Chuck Stratman
N118JR
----- Original Message -----
From: Cary Rhodes
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:36 PM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Trim: Electric vs. Manual

jerry

Did you take a look at the trim cable Van supplies with the kit??

I must weigh 15 lbs. Looks like something you could trim a 747 with.

But I will have to agree that manual things are much more dependable.

my 2 cents

cary rhodes

--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, jerry2dt@a... wrote:
> Folks...
>
> There's been an lot of chatter here about runaway electric trim and
so forth,
> and I'm wondering why more don't just opt for manual. It works
every time and
> no worries. I'm using electric now, and don't find the tradeoffs
that
> rewarding vs. manual. That's just me, though. I'd also rather have
manual flaps after
> having two flap motor failures in 30 hours...
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Flying N254HL RV6a electric trim
> Building N18XP manual trim
> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:18:51 -0600
> From: "Chuck Stratman" <Pilot93434@c...>
> Subject: Re: Electric Trim
>
> Jeff,
>
> Curious why you have no trim indicator? Jeff I don't know your
background,
> you might be a former Blue Angle, but be careful testing full trim
at cruise.
> The word OVERSTRESS comes to mind.

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Author: Charles Kuss <chaskuss@...> Time: Tue Mar 2, 2004 3:53 pm PST Link

Jerry,
You'll get a million answers to this. The REAL truth
is..... we are all just a bunch of "techno" wienies!
:-)
Actually, I want to be able to trim my 8A without
removing my right hand from the stick. I've set up my
panel so that my left hand will be free to operate the
engine controls and various radio and instrument knobs
and dials.
Charlie Kuss
FYI The first reason is the real reason.

--- jerry2dt@... wrote:
> Folks...
>
> There's been an lot of chatter here about runaway
> electric trim and so forth,
> and I'm wondering why more don't just opt for
> manual. It works every time and
> no worries. I'm using electric now, and don't find
> the tradeoffs that
> rewarding vs. manual. That's just me, though. I'd
> also rather have manual flaps after
> having two flap motor failures in 30 hours...
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Flying N254HL RV6a electric trim
> Building N18XP manual trim
> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:18:51 -0600
> From: "Chuck Stratman" <Pilot93434@...>
> Subject: Re: Electric Trim
>
> Jeff,
>
> Curious why you have no trim indicator? Jeff I
> don't know your background,
> you might be a former Blue Angle, but be careful
> testing full trim at cruise.
> The word OVERSTRESS comes to mind.

> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com

Author: "Jeffrey Hall" <jhallrv4@...> Time: Tue Mar 2, 2004 5:01 pm PST Link

I don't have an trim indicator because I've never felt the need for one. How often, even with an indicator, do you still need a nudge one way or the other? In flight I can tell where the trim is, and the greatest out of trim condition that can be a surprise is nose up for landing, then taking off with it still there. I addressed this in an earlier post. As I have elect. trim on my stick, I just push the little hat switch forward as I'm taking off. No problem, and I still have my left hand on the throttle, right hand on stick. If I had manual trim my hand would have to leave the throttle to use the trim. My personal preference is to have hands full of throttle and stick during takeoff and landing. I've got 170 hrs so far with no problem with electric flaps. There is one RV8 on the field that had a problem with the flap motor, but the rest of us RV's here are doing fine. It would be great to find out from Van's what percentage of flap motors have failed, but I wouldn't expect them to come across with a truthful answer.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Author: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@...> Time: Tue Mar 2, 2004 5:48 pm PST Link

I fly an RV-4 and I had trouble with the flap motor. Smoke started escaping from it. I had replaced it once. That was the last straw. Manual flaps for me from now on.

And I did check for binding. None.

Jeffrey Hall <jhallrv4@...> wrote:
I don't have an trim indicator because I've never felt the need for one. How often, even with an indicator, do you still need a nudge one way or the other? In flight I can tell where the trim is, and the greatest out of trim condition that can be a surprise is nose up for landing, then taking off with it still there. I addressed this in an earlier post. As I have elect. trim on my stick, I just push the little hat switch forward as I'm taking off. No problem, and I still have my left hand on the throttle, right hand on stick. If I had manual trim my hand would have to leave the throttle to use the trim. My personal preference is to have hands full of throttle and stick during takeoff and landing. I've got 170 hrs so far with no problem with electric flaps. There is one RV8 on the field that had a problem with the flap motor, but the rest of us RV's here are doing fine. It would be great to find out from Van's what percentage of flap motors have failed, but I wouldn't expect them to
come across with a truthful answer.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!

“You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." —C.S. Lewis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Author: "Jeffrey Hall" <jhallrv4@...> Time: Tue Mar 2, 2004 5:48 pm PST Link

"Jeff I don't know your background,
you might be a former Blue Angle, but be careful testing full trim at cruise.
The word OVERSTRESS comes to mind."

Good point. Actually, I doubt seriously if I could get to full trim at cruise. The trim tab is way to effective. The few times I've demoed the trim in flight, a couple of seconds of switch actuation was plenty! At that point, I know there was A LOT of trim left.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Author: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 2:33 am PST Link

Author: "vanlle2000" <vanlle2000@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 10:11 am PST Link

And why would van's tell you anything but the truthe about flap
motors? Everything they've told me -- performance numbers, delivery
times, problem solveing -- has been pretty much on the money.

They may not have a good answer -- getting data from the field is
notoriously difficult. But I dont' think they're going to hide what
they do know.

--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey Hall" <jhallrv4@c...>
wrote:
> I don't have an trim indicator because I've never felt the need for
one. How often, even with an indicator, do you still need a nudge one
way or the other? In flight I can tell where the trim is, and the
greatest out of trim condition that can be a surprise is nose up for
landing, then taking off with it still there. I addressed this in an
earlier post. As I have elect. trim on my stick, I just push the
little hat switch forward as I'm taking off. No problem, and I still
have my left hand on the throttle, right hand on stick. If I had
manual trim my hand would have to leave the throttle to use the trim.
My personal preference is to have hands full of throttle and stick
during takeoff and landing. I've got 170 hrs so far with no problem
with electric flaps. There is one RV8 on the field that had a problem
with the flap motor, but the rest of us RV's here are doing fine. It
would be great to find out from Van's what percentage of flap motors
have failed, but I wouldn't expect them to come across with a
truthful answer.
>
> Jeff
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Author: "Jeffrey Hall" <jhallrv4@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 1:05 pm PST Link

"And why would van's tell you anything but the truth about flap
motors? Everything they've told me -- performance numbers, delivery
times, problem solveing -- has been pretty much on the money.

They may not have a good answer -- getting data from the field is
notoriously difficult. But I don't think they're going to hide what
they do know."

Just some experience. Performance numbers, he's conservative, if anything. Delivery times are accurate. Some of the tech staff, however, have shown a tendency to gloss over the few shortcomings. This is by no means across the board, just some a few instances where you know various people have had problems and they say they hadn't heard of it.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Author: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 3:12 pm PST Link

I'll vouch for that. When I called in asking about my flap motor suddenly ceasing function, the tech support person (forgot the name) told me that he hadn't heard any reports like that. When I told him that I had read on the RV-LIST that there were some problems with leaky grease seals on the motors, he came clean and said there had been one or two of those and told me how to fix it. Cleaning the seals didn't last long in my case.

Now was he glossing over the truth? Was he feigning ignorance because I didn't use the exact same description of the problem as the other "two" flap motor failures? I don't know, you be the judge.

By the way, he told me never to believe what I read on the RV-LIST anyway.

Jeffrey Hall <jhallrv4@...> wrote:
"And why would van's tell you anything but the truth about flap
motors? Everything they've told me -- performance numbers, delivery
times, problem solveing -- has been pretty much on the money.

They may not have a good answer -- getting data from the field is
notoriously difficult. But I don't think they're going to hide what
they do know."

Just some experience. Performance numbers, he's conservative, if anything. Delivery times are accurate. Some of the tech staff, however, have shown a tendency to gloss over the few shortcomings. This is by no means across the board, just some a few instances where you know various people have had problems and they say they hadn't heard of it.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!

“You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." —C.S. Lewis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Author: "Kevin H." <onesickpup@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 4:31 pm PST Link

Which brings me to a question I asked the RV7 list...

Is the Actuator a MAC, or a RAC on the RV-7 electric elevator trim option???
Some say it's the same company and same servo.

Just looking for more info.. Thanks all!! :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Vanartsdalen" <svanarts@...>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Trim: Electric vs. Manual

I'll vouch for that. When I called in asking about my flap motor suddenly
ceasing function, the tech support person (forgot the name) told me that he
hadn't heard any reports like that. When I told him that I had read on the
RV-LIST that there were some problems with leaky grease seals on the motors,
he came clean and said there had been one or two of those and told me how to
fix it. Cleaning the seals didn't last long in my case.

Now was he glossing over the truth? Was he feigning ignorance because I
didn't use the exact same description of the problem as the other "two" flap
motor failures? I don't know, you be the judge.

By the way, he told me never to believe what I read on the RV-LIST anyway.

Jeffrey Hall <jhallrv4@...> wrote:
"And why would van's tell you anything but the truth about flap
motors? Everything they've told me -- performance numbers, delivery
times, problem solveing -- has been pretty much on the money.

They may not have a good answer -- getting data from the field is
notoriously difficult. But I don't think they're going to hide what
they do know."

Just some experience. Performance numbers, he's conservative, if anything.
Delivery times are accurate. Some of the tech staff, however, have shown a
tendency to gloss over the few shortcomings. This is by no means across the
board, just some a few instances where you know various people have had
problems and they say they hadn't heard of it.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!

"You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." -C.S. Lewis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

Yahoo! Groups Links

Author: "John Williams" <frate_dawg@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 7:20 pm PST Link

Ray Allen Company bought out MAC two or three years back. They are the
same servos, but they make several different models and accessories. As
for flap motors, several people have had the grease seal/carbonizing
problem you mention. Sam Benjamin (RV-9 List) got to the bottom of it
eventually after two or three failures. He could shed some light on it
for you.
Regards,

John Williams

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin H. [mailto:onesickpup@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:44 PM
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Trim: Electric vs. Manual

Which brings me to a question I asked the RV7 list...

Is the Actuator a MAC, or a RAC on the RV-7 electric elevator trim
option???
Some say it's the same company and same servo.

Just looking for more info.. Thanks all!! :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Vanartsdalen" <svanarts@...>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Trim: Electric vs. Manual

I'll vouch for that. When I called in asking about my flap motor
suddenly
ceasing function, the tech support person (forgot the name) told me that
he
hadn't heard any reports like that. When I told him that I had read on
the
RV-LIST that there were some problems with leaky grease seals on the
motors,
he came clean and said there had been one or two of those and told me
how to
fix it. Cleaning the seals didn't last long in my case.

Now was he glossing over the truth? Was he feigning ignorance because I
didn't use the exact same description of the problem as the other "two"
flap
motor failures? I don't know, you be the judge.

By the way, he told me never to believe what I read on the RV-LIST
anyway.

Jeffrey Hall <jhallrv4@...> wrote:
"And why would van's tell you anything but the truth about flap
motors? Everything they've told me -- performance numbers, delivery
times, problem solveing -- has been pretty much on the money.

They may not have a good answer -- getting data from the field is
notoriously difficult. But I don't think they're going to hide what
they do know."

Just some experience. Performance numbers, he's conservative, if
anything.
Delivery times are accurate. Some of the tech staff, however, have shown
a
tendency to gloss over the few shortcomings. This is by no means across
the
board, just some a few instances where you know various people have had
problems and they say they hadn't heard of it.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!

"You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." -C.S. Lewis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

Yahoo! Groups Links

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

Yahoo! Groups Links

Author: "Kevin H." <onesickpup@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 7:57 pm PST Link

OK... is this the servo Van's sells with the Emp.??? if so, what model #??? any ideas???

----- Original Message -----
From: John Williams
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:48 PM
Subject: RE: [VAF Mailing List] Trim: Electric vs. Manual

Ray Allen Company bought out MAC two or three years back. They are the
same servos, but they make several different models and accessories. As
for flap motors, several people have had the grease seal/carbonizing
problem you mention. Sam Benjamin (RV-9 List) got to the bottom of it
eventually after two or three failures. He could shed some light on it
for you.
Regards,

John Williams

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin H. [mailto:onesickpup@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:44 PM
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Trim: Electric vs. Manual

Which brings me to a question I asked the RV7 list...

Is the Actuator a MAC, or a RAC on the RV-7 electric elevator trim
option???
Some say it's the same company and same servo.

Just looking for more info.. Thanks all!! :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Vanartsdalen" <svanarts@...>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Trim: Electric vs. Manual

I'll vouch for that. When I called in asking about my flap motor
suddenly
ceasing function, the tech support person (forgot the name) told me that
he
hadn't heard any reports like that. When I told him that I had read on
the
RV-LIST that there were some problems with leaky grease seals on the
motors,
he came clean and said there had been one or two of those and told me
how to
fix it. Cleaning the seals didn't last long in my case.

Now was he glossing over the truth? Was he feigning ignorance because I
didn't use the exact same description of the problem as the other "two"
flap
motor failures? I don't know, you be the judge.

By the way, he told me never to believe what I read on the RV-LIST
anyway.

Jeffrey Hall <jhallrv4@...> wrote:
"And why would van's tell you anything but the truth about flap
motors? Everything they've told me -- performance numbers, delivery
times, problem solveing -- has been pretty much on the money.

They may not have a good answer -- getting data from the field is
notoriously difficult. But I don't think they're going to hide what
they do know."

Just some experience. Performance numbers, he's conservative, if
anything.
Delivery times are accurate. Some of the tech staff, however, have shown
a
tendency to gloss over the few shortcomings. This is by no means across
the
board, just some a few instances where you know various people have had
problems and they say they hadn't heard of it.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!

"You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." -C.S. Lewis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

Yahoo! Groups Links

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

Yahoo! Groups Links

Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Search Messages:

About

Search Tips