Author: "Jon Baker" <jon@...> Time: Tue Mar 2, 2004 6:22 pm PST Link
The flap motor problem goes back years -- check the Matronics
archives. Mine glitched once at 10 hours and then failed completely
at 28 hours (at the paintshop two hours from home -- in the down
position, naturally).
When I got it home, I disassembled the motor and cleaned out all the
grease that had leaked out of the motor onto the brushes. No more
problems since then, but I still wish I'd gone manual. It's a
nuisance waiting for them to retract on touch-and-go's.
On the runaway trim situation -- I've tested mine at 65% cruise.
Didn't hurt anything. I'd estimate the stick force at about 30
pounds. Certainly not comfortable, but managable. I sure as heck
didn't try any stalls with it that far out of trim.
Jon Baker RV6A (95 hrs)
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey Hall" <jhallrv4@c...>
wrote:
> I don't have an trim indicator because I've never felt the need
for one. How often, even with an indicator, do you still need a
nudge one way or the other? In flight I can tell where the trim is,
and the greatest out of trim condition that can be a surprise is
nose up for landing, then taking off with it still there. I
addressed this in an earlier post. As I have elect. trim on my
stick, I just push the little hat switch forward as I'm taking off.
No problem, and I still have my left hand on the throttle, right
hand on stick. If I had manual trim my hand would have to leave the
throttle to use the trim. My personal preference is to have hands
full of throttle and stick during takeoff and landing. I've got 170
hrs so far with no problem with electric flaps. There is one RV8 on
the field that had a problem with the flap motor, but the rest of us
RV's here are doing fine. It would be great to find out from Van's
what percentage of flap motors have failed, but I wouldn't expect
them to come across with a truthful answer.
>
> Jeff
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Robert Mears" <bobmears50@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 2:34 am PST Link
>The flap motor problem goes back years -- check the Matronics
>archives. Mine glitched once at 10 hours and then failed completely
>at 28 hours (at the paintshop two hours from home -- in the down
>position, naturally).
I don't understand the flap motor problem unless it is under designed. I
flew the same Grumman Cheetah for years extending the flaps at 110 mph, max
and at no time did I experience a flap motor problem. Anyone care to discuss
what the real problem is here. It should not be such a chore. And you were
right, on touch and go you have to power up, hold the stick and wait. That
is the good part of mechanical flaps. But with the -4, is there not a
problem somewhere with the rear seat passenger and mechanical flaps?
Bob Mears
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Author: "Jon Baker" <jon@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 5:26 am PST Link
It's not that the motor isn't strong enough. It just leaks grease
onto the brushes. I think it's a quality control problem. There are
posts on Matronics of people reporting that they have to clean it off
ever 30 hours or so. So far, I haven't experienced that.
There may be a contributing factor, though, at least in my case. At
first, I was using the kind of Cessna flap switch where you can flip
it up without holding it. Since the motor has an automatic
disengagement gear, I would just flip it up and then later turn it
off when I wasn't busy taking off. So it was probably running longer
than it was designed for and the grease was leaking when it got hot.
I've since replaced that flap switch with a momentary switch in both
directions (but still a Cessna switch -- I like the big black handle).
Jon.
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Mears" <bobmears50@h...>
wrote:
>
> >The flap motor problem goes back years -- check the Matronics
> >archives. Mine glitched once at 10 hours and then failed
completely
> >at 28 hours (at the paintshop two hours from home -- in the down
> >position, naturally).
> I don't understand the flap motor problem unless it is under
designed. I
> flew the same Grumman Cheetah for years extending the flaps at 110
mph, max
> and at no time did I experience a flap motor problem. Anyone care
to discuss
> what the real problem is here. It should not be such a chore. And
you were
> right, on touch and go you have to power up, hold the stick and
wait. That
> is the good part of mechanical flaps. But with the -4, is there not
a
> problem somewhere with the rear seat passenger and mechanical flaps?
>
> Bob Mears
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from
bCentral.
> http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx
Author: Mickey Coggins <mc@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 10:40 am PST Link
>I fly an RV-4 and I had trouble with the flap motor. Smoke started escaping from it. I had replaced it once. That was the last straw. Manual flaps for me from now on.
>
>And I did check for binding. None.
Van's does not offer manual flaps on the RV8, or I would
have chosen that option. I like to be able to move
the flaps quicker than the electric motor. Just curious -
the flap motors with the problems - do they look like
this one, last two pictures on the page:
http://rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040226212441467
I just got my kit in January, so hopefully it is a
new model.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Author: "Jon Baker" <jon@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 11:52 am PST Link
Looks the same.
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, Mickey Coggins <mc@r...> wrote:
>
> >I fly an RV-4 and I had trouble with the flap motor. Smoke
started escaping from it. I had replaced it once. That was the last
straw. Manual flaps for me from now on.
> >
> >And I did check for binding. None.
>
> Van's does not offer manual flaps on the RV8, or I would
> have chosen that option. I like to be able to move
> the flaps quicker than the electric motor. Just curious -
> the flap motors with the problems - do they look like
> this one, last two pictures on the page:
>
> http://rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040226212441467
>
> I just got my kit in January, so hopefully it is a
> new model.
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Author: "Jeffrey Hall" <jhallrv4@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 1:50 pm PST Link
" Just curious -
the flap motors with the problems - do they look like
this one, last two pictures on the page:"
Now that's interesting. RV8's seem to be the ones with the biggest problem with flap motors. And now I see that it is a direct push on the flap actuator in that model of RV. I believe the -6 used that geometry also. In my -4, there is additional leverage provided via some arms in the belly of the plane. I would guess that the force on my motor is a fraction of that required by the system in the -8 pics.
Any thoughts? It looks like the same motor.
Jeff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 3:04 pm PST Link
On the -4 the pax has to move their left foot so you can actuate the flaps. The problem seems to be lessened if you install footwells. Which I am about to do.
Robert Mears <bobmears50@...> wrote:
>The flap motor problem goes back years -- check the Matronics
>archives. Mine glitched once at 10 hours and then failed completely
>at 28 hours (at the paintshop two hours from home -- in the down
>position, naturally).
I don't understand the flap motor problem unless it is under designed. I
flew the same Grumman Cheetah for years extending the flaps at 110 mph, max
and at no time did I experience a flap motor problem. Anyone care to discuss
what the real problem is here. It should not be such a chore. And you were
right, on touch and go you have to power up, hold the stick and wait. That
is the good part of mechanical flaps. But with the -4, is there not a
problem somewhere with the rear seat passenger and mechanical flaps?
Bob Mears
_________________________________________________________________
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Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
“You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." —C.S. Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 3:04 pm PST Link
My motor looked just like that. I don't think they are the same model though. My bud's RV-8 has never had a lick of trouble with his flap motor.
Mickey Coggins <mc@...> wrote:
>I fly an RV-4 and I had trouble with the flap motor. Smoke started escaping from it. I had replaced it once. That was the last straw. Manual flaps for me from now on.
>
>And I did check for binding. None.
Van's does not offer manual flaps on the RV8, or I would
have chosen that option. I like to be able to move
the flaps quicker than the electric motor. Just curious -
the flap motors with the problems - do they look like
this one, last two pictures on the page:
http://rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040226212441467
I just got my kit in January, so hopefully it is a
new model.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
Click Here
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
“You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." —C.S. Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Robert Mears" <bobmears50@...> Time: Thu Mar 4, 2004 3:25 am PST Link
>Van's does not offer manual flaps on the RV8, or I would
>have chosen that option. I like to be able to move
>the flaps quicker than the electric motor. Just curious -
>the flap motors with the problems - do they look like
>this one, last two pictures on the page:
>
A friend of mine just finish an-8 and put a -4 manual trim. I don't know
about the flap but I suspect he did manual on it too. He has built a
-4,-6,-8A,-7,-8 so he os pretty good by now. One of his planes is in this
month's Sport Aviation mag. It is "duel in the sun with the checkerboard
rudder. That is a $10,000 paint job on that plane. It has full IFR panel
with a lot of extra Garmin stuff. It has been in the air less than 6 months
and it has been to Oregon and the Bahammas. The write up did not give my
friend the credit he deserved. He really built the plane. The owner mainly
held the tools once and a while and paid for the parts. >
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