Author: jerry2dt@... Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 9:35 am PST Link
List...
At the invitation of the owner, George Storey, a few of us, Bob Haan, George
Adkins, and myself were able to observe an airworthiness inspection yesterday
by one of our local FAA guys, Mike Robertson, aka "Das Fed". It is definitely
an understatement to say we all learned a bunch. I would recommend to all if
you get an oppourtunity to observe one of these, take it. The inspection took
about two hours, and believe me, Mike looked at every nut, bolt, washer, wire,
etc., etc., in the plane. What I took away from it is that before your FAA
inspection, you should expose every part, take off all the panels, etc., and
then do a formal "condition inspection" yourself using the checklist for that. If
you are very thorough with that, you have greatly increased your chances of
passing. Be especially aware of proper safetying, anti chafing measures, even
the wrong kind of washers can get you dinged. An example is George's prop bolts
had .032 instead of .041 safey wire, and that had to be changed. I now plan
to commit to memory the "Acceptable Methods" AC 43.13-1B/2A handbook, just some
light nightime reading. :)
Jerry Cochran
RV6a.. flying one, building one.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "myrv6a2003" <bill_freckman@...> Time: Wed Mar 3, 2004 11:15 am PST Link
Jerry and one and all,
First let me say that I am not trying to create a firestorm of
criticism or an endless stream of "well here's what happened to me"
messages, I'm only trying to reinforce the idea that a thorough
inspection by someone who cares is priceless insurance!
I have been fortunate to be involved in more than one inspection and
to have watched more than a few others. These inspections have been
from both the FAA and the (EAA) DAR system. What a difference!!!
In deference to your described inspection, the FAA inspections were
simply exercises in making sure all the paperwork was completed in
the manner that the inspector wanted to see it! In one of my
inspections the FAA examiner hardly looked at my plane (it was a
scratch-built biplane, not a kit)! One walk around and he immediately
went for my bench where all the paperwork was neatly laid out,
including a compete book of the building in photos and a spiral
notebook with all 2,200 hours of building recorded. He didn't even
bother to look at either. He wanted to only see the required
government paperwork. He made the obligatory entry in my logbook, we
took a picture, and off he went...I have also been a spectator at
several other planes being inspected by the FAA and I was amazed how
similar the experience was. This convinced me to check out the EAAs
DAR inspection system. After talking to many other RV builders that
used the local DARs to do their inspections, I weighed the facts
carefully....more money for the DAR inspection or the
seemingly "free" FAA inspection...I came to the conclusion that the
inherent value of the DAR inspection was well worth the money.
When the time came, I set up the inspection, and, much like your
experience, he went through my plane with a fine tooth comb finding a
couple of hard-to-see castle nuts with cotter pins missing, and even
helped me re-install the elevator push-rod to be within a better
safety margin! The paperwork came only "after" the physical plane
inspection. Needless to say I considered the monetary investment in
the inspection by the DAR well spent and it gave me a much better
feeling about my plane.
Once again, I just felt like I needed to write this not as an
indictment of bad practice, by apparently some at the FAA, but rather
as a glowing report and a hearty endorsement of the dedicated DAR
folks that take the time to care about our "experimental" airplanes
(most of whom are builders and owners of experimental planes).
Bill Freckman RV-6A
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, jerry2dt@a... wrote:
> List...
>
> At the invitation of the owner, George Storey, a few of us, Bob
Haan, George
> Adkins, and myself were able to observe an airworthiness inspection
yesterday
> by one of our local FAA guys, Mike Robertson, aka "Das Fed". It is
definitely
> an understatement to say we all learned a bunch. I would recommend
to all if
> you get an oppourtunity to observe one of these, take it. The
inspection took
> about two hours, and believe me, Mike looked at every nut, bolt,
washer, wire,
> etc., etc., in the plane. What I took away from it is that before
your FAA
> inspection, you should expose every part, take off all the panels,
etc., and
> then do a formal "condition inspection" yourself using the
checklist for that. If
> you are very thorough with that, you have greatly increased your
chances of
> passing. Be especially aware of proper safetying, anti chafing
measures, even
> the wrong kind of washers can get you dinged. An example is
George's prop bolts
> had .032 instead of .041 safey wire, and that had to be changed. I
now plan
> to commit to memory the "Acceptable Methods" AC 43.13-1B/2A
handbook, just some
> light nightime reading. :)
>
> Jerry Cochran
> RV6a.. flying one, building one.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: jerry2dt@... Time: Thu Mar 4, 2004 9:58 am PST Link
Hi Bill...
I guess this must mean you should choose your FAA guy carefully. Fortunately
for us here in NW Oregon, aka "RV Country", Mike Robertson is the go-to guy.
He also has built RV's himself and assisted on others. So maybe he takes it
more personally than the other FAA-ers. I am surprised though, that there would
be the type of non-inspection you refer to, surely the feds must have some
pretty strong guidelines for their inspectors, or am I mistaken? I just hope I get
mine done before Mike retires, or moves, or sumpin'... :)
Jerry Cochran
RV6a... one flying, one building
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:51:37 -0000
From: "myrv6a2003" <bill_freckman@...>
Subject: Re: Observing Airworthiness Inspection
Jerry and one and all,
First let me say that I am not trying to create a firestorm of
criticism or an endless stream of "well here's what happened to me"
messages, I'm only trying to reinforce the idea that a thorough
inspection by someone who cares is priceless insurance!
I have been fortunate to be involved in more than one inspection and
to have watched more than a few others. These inspections have been
from both the FAA and the (EAA) DAR system. What a difference!!!
In deference to your described inspection, the FAA inspections were
simply exercises in making sure all the paperwork was completed in
the manner that the inspector wanted to see it! In one of my
inspections the FAA examiner hardly looked at my plane (it was a
scratch-built biplane, not a kit)! One walk around and he immediately
went for my bench where all the paperwork was neatly laid out,
including a compete book of the building in photos and a spiral
notebook with all 2,200 hours of building recorded. He didn't even
bother to look at either.
<snip
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@...> Time: Fri Mar 5, 2004 8:10 am PST Link
My inspection was pretty much as Bill described it. Inpsector showed up, walked around my plane once, looked in the cockpit to make sure the correct placards were there and then was ready to start signing papers. He asked if I wanted the repairman certificate. I said yes. He asked if I had my builder's log. I said yes. He said OK and then signed the pre-filled out repairman's cert. He never looked at the log. It was all over in about 30 minutes. I did ask him if he wanted to take a closer look at anything. His answer was that he could pretty much tell by the overall appearance and workmanship of the airplane if it was safe or not.
This was my unpainted, mostly unfaired, not ready to fly for another month airplane. As apposed to the same inspector checking out my bud's RV-8 and turned that into a 3 hour ordeal pouring over the logs, poking in the dark places with a flashlight, etc. The RV-8 was much better workmanship than my RV-4 in my opinion.
Go figure. Should I take that as a compliment to my workmanship or do we just have an inspector with a split personality?
jerry2dt@... wrote:
Hi Bill...
I guess this must mean you should choose your FAA guy carefully. Fortunately
for us here in NW Oregon, aka "RV Country", Mike Robertson is the go-to guy.
He also has built RV's himself and assisted on others. So maybe he takes it
more personally than the other FAA-ers. I am surprised though, that there would
be the type of non-inspection you refer to, surely the feds must have some
pretty strong guidelines for their inspectors, or am I mistaken? I just hope I get
mine done before Mike retires, or moves, or sumpin'... :)
Jerry Cochran
RV6a... one flying, one building
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:51:37 -0000
From: "myrv6a2003" <bill_freckman@...>
Subject: Re: Observing Airworthiness Inspection
Jerry and one and all,
First let me say that I am not trying to create a firestorm of
criticism or an endless stream of "well here's what happened to me"
messages, I'm only trying to reinforce the idea that a thorough
inspection by someone who cares is priceless insurance!
I have been fortunate to be involved in more than one inspection and
to have watched more than a few others. These inspections have been
from both the FAA and the (EAA) DAR system. What a difference!!!
In deference to your described inspection, the FAA inspections were
simply exercises in making sure all the paperwork was completed in
the manner that the inspector wanted to see it! In one of my
inspections the FAA examiner hardly looked at my plane (it was a
scratch-built biplane, not a kit)! One walk around and he immediately
went for my bench where all the paperwork was neatly laid out,
including a compete book of the building in photos and a spiral
notebook with all 2,200 hours of building recorded. He didn't even
bother to look at either.
<snip
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
“You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." —C.S. Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "Gary" <GASobek@...> Time: Fri Mar 5, 2004 3:38 pm PST Link
>From the sounds of this "thread" it sounds like everyone likes an AB
DAR that is "hard" and goes over everything.
The first EAA AB DAR inspection took place on the 3rd or 4th.
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/040304_abdar_inspection.html
on an RV-6. Joe Gauthier has an excellent reputation that is known
even here on the West Coast. Congratulations go out to Joe on his
first Special Airworthiness Inspection.
There is a lot of work for the "good" DAR to do to get ready for their
first inspection. I have spent 20 hours this week getting ready to do
my first AB DAR inspection on an RV-6. It is my intention to not only
be VERY through on the paperwork and requirements but also to do a
through "Condition Inspection" to find anything not done to Acceptable
Methods Techniques and Practices.
Gary