Author: David Domeier <davidd010@...> Time: Sun Mar 7, 2004 9:46 am PST Link
I am in the process of getting an education on silk-screen panel labeling
for an RV airplane. (It is so much neater than stick on labels)
Silk-screen printing is very common relative to t-shirts and such products.
What is not common is hand label printing of an instrument panel by
experimental airplane builders. I know how it is done but know nothing
about the technical details of having a screen burned with appropriate
labels.
Perhaps there is someone on the forum who has done it.
1. I have found a print shop that will burn a screen from a Word document
but when asked what mesh to use, I don't have the answer. What mesh is
appropriate for squeegying paint? The screen material comes in anything
from 60 to 400 mesh. I would image a 100 to 180 mesh might work for paint
but have no basis for that conclusion.
2. Is it possible to have a screen made up in a smaller size than the
standard 19x21 or larger frame used with t-shirt printing machines? A 8x11
or smaller frame would be much easier to use but I have not found a source
of non standard sized frames.
Thanks for any information on the this subject.
dd
RV-7
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: Paul Besing <pbesing@...> Time: Sun Mar 7, 2004 11:18 am PST Link
Personally, I like panel overlays. You can overlay
the whole panel, or you can have switch covers made.
Reverse engraved, looks great. You can read all about
it at my website, www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Go to the panel section and you can see how it looks.
Paul Besing
--- David Domeier <davidd010@...> wrote:
>
> I am in the process of getting an education on
> silk-screen panel labeling
> for an RV airplane. (It is so much neater than
> stick on labels)
>
> Silk-screen printing is very common relative to
> t-shirts and such products.
> What is not common is hand label printing of an
> instrument panel by
> experimental airplane builders. I know how it is
> done but know nothing
> about the technical details of having a screen
> burned with appropriate
> labels.
>
> Perhaps there is someone on the forum who has done
> it.
>
> 1. I have found a print shop that will burn a
> screen from a Word document
> but when asked what mesh to use, I don't have the
> answer. What mesh is
> appropriate for squeegying paint? The screen
> material comes in anything
> from 60 to 400 mesh. I would image a 100 to 180 mesh
> might work for paint
> but have no basis for that conclusion.
>
> 2. Is it possible to have a screen made up in a
> smaller size than the
> standard 19x21 or larger frame used with t-shirt
> printing machines? A 8x11
> or smaller frame would be much easier to use but I
> have not found a source
> of non standard sized frames.
>
> Thanks for any information on the this subject.
>
> dd
> RV-7
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
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Author: "midniteoyl2" <midniteoyl@...> Time: Sun Mar 7, 2004 12:54 pm PST Link
Very Nice, Paul
Jim
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, Paul Besing <pbesing@y...>
wrote:
> Personally, I like panel overlays. You can overlay
> the whole panel, or you can have switch covers made.
> Reverse engraved, looks great. You can read all about
> it at my website, www.lacodeworks.com/besing
>
> Go to the panel section and you can see how it looks.
>
> Paul Besing
>
> --- David Domeier <davidd010@e...> wrote:
> >
> > I am in the process of getting an education on
> > silk-screen panel labeling
> > for an RV airplane. (It is so much neater than
> > stick on labels)
> >
> > Silk-screen printing is very common relative to
> > t-shirts and such products.
> > What is not common is hand label printing of an
> > instrument panel by
> > experimental airplane builders. I know how it is
> > done but know nothing
> > about the technical details of having a screen
> > burned with appropriate
> > labels.
> >
> > Perhaps there is someone on the forum who has done
> > it.
> >
> > 1. I have found a print shop that will burn a
> > screen from a Word document
> > but when asked what mesh to use, I don't have the
> > answer. What mesh is
> > appropriate for squeegying paint? The screen
> > material comes in anything
> > from 60 to 400 mesh. I would image a 100 to 180 mesh
> > might work for paint
> > but have no basis for that conclusion.
> >
> > 2. Is it possible to have a screen made up in a
> > smaller size than the
> > standard 19x21 or larger frame used with t-shirt
> > printing machines? A 8x11
> > or smaller frame would be much easier to use but I
> > have not found a source
> > of non standard sized frames.
> >
> > Thanks for any information on the this subject.
> >
> > dd
> > RV-7
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com
Author: "David Domeier" <davidd010@...> Time: Mon Mar 8, 2004 5:17 am PST Link
> Very Nice, Paul
>
> Jim
Yes, indeed.
dd
Author: "Clay R" <clayr_55@...> Time: Mon Mar 8, 2004 1:33 pm PST Link
I had my panel lettering silk screened. It was some work, but I'm
glad I did it.
I used Quark Xpress (a page layout program) to position all the type
exactly where I wanted it. Quark can deal with large page sizes (the
size of the panel) and it will print the image on overlapping sheets
of 8 1/2x11 paper that can be taped together and positioned on the
actual panel to get everything positioned precisely. You could use
any other software program that can handle large page sizes.
Once I had the type all positioned correctly, I had a local company
called Creative Type (www.creativetype.com) print the document onto
transparent film. (on a single sheet... as a positive so the type was
black on the film)
Then I took the panel (already painted with my interior color) and
the film to another local company, 3D Powdercoating.
(www.3dpowdercoating.com) They created the screen from my image, and
printed onto the panel using an epoxy ink. Then, they sprayed the
entire panel with a flat clearcoat.
It came out looking beautiful. I still had to add a couple of
placards later, so I used a matte finish clear sheet with an adhesive
backing (found at an art supply store) and printed on this using a
laser printer. I cut the pieces out, peeled off the backing and
stuck them on the panel and you can hardly tell they're stickers.
If I was going to go through this again, I'd do a couple of things
differently. First, unless you have computer experience and are
familiar with the page layout software, have the same company create
the file and print it to your specifications. (they'll probably need
your panel to take measurements and to make sure everything is in
position correctly) Secondly, I'd let the company that does the
silkscreening paint the panel too. 3D powdercoating could have
powdercoated my panel the same color as my interior, or used their
own paint on the panel and probably could have done a better job than
I did. (they have some amazing paint and finishes that would have
looked really nice on the panel) There was also some worry that their
clearcoat finish might react badly with the paint I used. (it didn't)
Another alternative to creating one huge printout and screen would be
to create screens for each logical section of the panel. This would
have been a LOT easier than the one large screen that I used.
As for cost? I think it was a little less than $200 for the
printouts and the printing and it looks great.
Let me know if you have more questions.
-Clay
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, David Domeier <davidd010@e...>
wrote:
>
> I am in the process of getting an education on silk-screen panel
labeling
> for an RV airplane. (It is so much neater than stick on labels)
>
> Silk-screen printing is very common relative to t-shirts and such
products.
> What is not common is hand label printing of an instrument panel by
> experimental airplane builders. I know how it is done but know
nothing
> about the technical details of having a screen burned with
appropriate
> labels.
>
> Perhaps there is someone on the forum who has done it.
Author: dan b <danb_89@...> Time: Mon Mar 8, 2004 3:32 pm PST Link
Clay, Do you have pictures?
Dan
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Author: "flmike2001" <flmike2001@...> Time: Tue Mar 9, 2004 7:22 am PST Link
David,
I'm seriously considering using color transfers for my panel
(although the color will be black). I'm sure that I can easily get
everything I need on one 11x17 sheet including nice switch group
surround lines, the passenger warnings, etc. Originally I was
planning to CNC engrave the panel, but I think it might be more
trouble than it's worth. Especially considering the potential for
screw-ups. Still debating, but I'm leaning towards the transfers.
We've used them at work for prototype front panels and they look
just like silkscreen, maybe better.
Here's a place that does them:
http://www.cliffcolor.com/color_transfers.html
I'd give them a call first to make sure they can use your file
format.
Mike
Author: "Clay R" <clayr_55@...> Time: Tue Mar 9, 2004 7:41 am PST Link
I'll take some closeups and post them on my web site... I'll post
another message to the list when I do this.
In response to the other message about the "rub on" type lettering,
this would probably be a great alternative. I'd just want to make
sure that the clearcoat that goes over the top as a protectant
doesn't affect the lettering.
I briefly thought about ordering some rub-on lettering sheets with
every airplane related label I could think of and then offering them
for sale. Maybe someone else already does this?
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, dan b <danb_89@y...> wrote:
> Clay, Do you have pictures?
> Dan
Author: David Domeier <davidd010@...> Time: Tue Mar 9, 2004 9:04 am PST Link
on 3/9/04 9:13 AM, flmike2001 at flmike2001@... wrote:
re "I'm seriously considering using color transfers for my panel..."
Another way to do it. Thanks.
Obviously, the panel over lay or one piece silk screen process is best and
most attractive. But it requires CNC machining, professional application
and lay out software not everyone has access to. Thanks to the guys who
submitted these techniques.
I've decided to go with a 19x21 silk-screen with specific labels for my
project. The labels will be applied manually, one at a time where needed.
The screen will be ready this afternoon and was made from a Word file I
created. The spacing, fonts, and format were preserved just as created. I
sent the file via e-mail to the print shop and it all worked out as I was
able to compare my print out to his before he went to work making the film
and burning the screen.
This process certainly is inexpensive. The screen burn is $60 and it can be
used over and over. Other expenses are paint ($5 for a tube of Gumbacher's
acrylic white) and $2.39 for a small silicone spatula to apply it.
The next step is to test the process. The screen is 160 mesh and paint
viscosity will determine how well it goes through and rests on the surface.
Paint in a tube can be thinned with water as needed. If that doesn't work,
I will try enamel from a local hardware store. Another issue is
compatibility with the painted surface and whether a clear coat is
appropriate after the labels are down.
The process of getting the paint through screen is somewhat of an art. I
know a guy who does this type of work on corporate jets that are being
modified and require new labeling. He creates his own screens in various
sizes. The actual application of the paint is done by dabbing a small
amount at one end of the label and then swiping across the label with a
rubber squeegy dragging the paint over it. The screen is positioned about
and eighth inch over the panel and after the pass is pops up leaving the
label impression on the panel. If the result is smeared or has inadequate
paint, he simply wipes it off and does it again until the result is
satisfactory. Most of the time it is.
The screen is cleaned after each application. The cleaning fluid can be
water or paint thinner depending on what type of paint is used. I was told
lacquer thinner will slowly destroy the screen buy not paint thinner.
Probably acetone would damage it also. If an ink is used, there are special
cleaners for it. Ink would probably work well if one could find a source of
a small amount of it but I am not sure of the application process. A 160
mesh screen might not work. The mesh could be as fine as 400. I will try
paint first. The acrylic paint is easily cleaned with water, but after cure
is permanent. It is available in art supply stores.
We shall see how this works out...
dd
RV-7
H6 Subby
Author: jacklockamy@... Time: Tue Mar 9, 2004 10:57 am PST Link
I used those rub-off labels on my black instrument panel and then sprayed a coat of clear to seal the labels. BIG MISTAKE! Panel looked great for about 2 weeks after spraying the clear coat and then about the third week.... the clear coat started "spider-webbing". I watched it for another 2 weeks to see if I would be able to live with it. NO! All the instruments/avionics were removed, panel was stripped, and then I had it powder coated locally. It looks great now and I expect it will 10-20 years from now also.....
I would definitely NOT spray clear coat on my panel again.
My two cents,
Jack
----------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Author: "avi8torus" <rbkd5ebr@...> Time: Tue Mar 9, 2004 1:39 pm PST Link
Rub on lettering - Maybe someone else already does this?
I re-lettered the panel in my spam can with rub on letters applied to
model aircraft milar covering (monocoat wet adhesive type). After
adjusting and applying the lettering on the monocoat, then placed the
monocoat on the panel. I also did a small tail flash reflecting all
of my military career squadrons with the same technique. No top coat
over the letters was used. Neither the panel or external lettering
ever came off in six years.
Rayburn
Author: "Clay R" <clayr_55@...> Time: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:54 am PST Link
I created a web page with some of my panel pictures showing the
screened and 'sticker' labels in detail.
http://webpages.charter.net/RV9A/panel_details.htm
--Clay
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Clay R" <clayr_55@y...> wrote:
> I'll take some closeups and post them on my web site... I'll post
> another message to the list when I do this.
Author: "Steve & Denise" <sjhdcl@...> Time: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:04 pm PST Link
How much did it cost to get that done?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay R" <clayr_55@...>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:45 AM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Silk-screen panel labels
> I created a web page with some of my panel pictures showing the
> screened and 'sticker' labels in detail.
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/RV9A/panel_details.htm
>
> --Clay
>
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Clay R" <clayr_55@y...> wrote:
> > I'll take some closeups and post them on my web site... I'll post
> > another message to the list when I do this.
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Author: "midniteoyl2" <midniteoyl@...> Time: Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:55 pm PST Link
I see no pics....?
Jim
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Steve & Denise" <sjhdcl@k...>
wrote:
> How much did it cost to get that done?
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clay R" <clayr_55@y...>
> To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:45 AM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Silk-screen panel labels
> > I created a web page with some of my panel pictures showing the
> > screened and 'sticker' labels in detail.
> >
> > http://webpages.charter.net/RV9A/panel_details.htm
> >
> > --Clay
> >
> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Clay R" <clayr_55@y...>
wrote:
> > > I'll take some closeups and post them on my web site... I'll
post
> > > another message to the list when I do this.
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links