Author: "Robert Anderson" <freightdog77@...> Time: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:17 pm PST Link
greetings :
i just started my HS and began dimpling. i did not countersink my
spars, i dimpled them with the same dimple dies i am dimpling the
skins with. is this a problem? did i miss something obvious, i dont
know if it says anything in the manual as i left it at the hanger.
thanks
Dufus
-8 EMP.
only 5 rivits bucked so far
Author: "Bob Collins" <bcollins@...> Time: Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:14 am PST Link
As I recall, the HS spars are not countersunk, they're dimpled (at
least they used to be...I remember squeezing my first dimple on the
HS spar and thinking it was the coolest thing I ever "made" <g>)
Bob
St. Paul
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Anderson"
<freightdog77@y...> wrote:
> greetings :
> i just started my HS and began dimpling. i did not countersink my
> spars, i dimpled them with the same dimple dies i am dimpling the
> skins with. is this a problem? did i miss something obvious, i
dont
> know if it says anything in the manual as i left it at the hanger.
> thanks
>
> Dufus
> -8 EMP.
> only 5 rivits bucked so far
Author: plaurence@... Time: Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:10 am PST Link
You may dimple up to .040. thicknes.
Peter
> i just started my HS and began dimpling. i did not countersink my
> spars, i dimpled them with the same dimple dies i am dimpling the
> skins with. is this a problem? did i miss something obvious, i dont
> know if it says anything in the manual as i left it at the hanger.
> thanks
>
> Dufus
> -8 EMP.
> only 5 rivits bucked so far
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> click here
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
Author: "Michael" <michael@...> Time: Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:07 am PST Link
Actually, I believe the rule is that you may (not must) countersink
anything
OVER 0.040in thick. That number is really rivet diameter dependent.
You really don't want to countersink anything thin enough to leave a
knife edge in the finished hole.
You may DIMPLE any thickness your equipment has the grunt to do. If
your dies are substantial enough and you have a healthy press
available you could dimple quarter inch stuff.
You just need to be wary that dimpling the spar flanges may stretch
or even shrink the edge if the dies are not closed completely. If
the rivet line remains straight after the dimpling, pat yourself on
the back and move on.
-Mike
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, plaurence@t... wrote:
> You may dimple up to .040. thicknes.
> Peter
> > i just started my HS and began dimpling. i did not countersink my
> > spars, i dimpled them with the same dimple dies i am dimpling the
> > skins with. is this a problem? did i miss something obvious, i
dont
> > know if it says anything in the manual as i left it at the hanger.
> > thanks
> >
> > Dufus
> > -8 EMP.
> > only 5 rivits bucked so far
Author: "Rick Galati" <rick6a@...> Time: Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:03 pm PST Link
Huh? Unless I misunderstood you, I believe the minimum material
thickness acceptable for AD rivets using a standard 100 degree
cutter is .032. In addition, even thinner material such as .025 can
be safely machine countersunk such as when installing NAS1097-3
rivets in nutplates. Both examples just outlined and if worked within
tolerance, can be machine countersunk without generating an
unacceptable knife edge.
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <michael@m...> wrote:
> Actually, I believe the rule is that you may (not must) countersink
> anything OVER 0.040in thick. That number is really rivet diameter
dependent. You really don't want to countersink anything thin enough
to leave a knife edge in the finished hole.
> -Mike
Author: "Michael" <michael@...> Time: Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:20 pm PST Link
Yeah Rick,
I was not being precise when I stated the 0.040 thickness. It truly
is simply geometry dependent. The Idea, as previously stated, is to
not
create a knife edge in the hole by countersinking all the way through
to the other side.
A little trig on an AN426AD3 rivet shows the head to be ~0.0323in.
deep.
If you countersink for a flush head, it looks like .032 material will
be at knife edge. One would think that a .010in straight wall would
be
a reasonable remainder after countersinking, which pushes the minimum
thickness to 0.040 plus. If you
want to reduce the remaining straight wall below 0.010in, you can
approach your sheet thickness of 0.032in but will likely enlarge the
hole if pushed too far.
It all depends on what you are comfortable with.
An AN426AD4 rivet has a head thickness about 0.0377 inches.
I haven't worked out the head thickness for other rivet geometries.
My actual point was not this at all but simply that one is not
REQUIRED to machine countersink when sheet thicknesses exceed .040in.
Form countersinking (dimpling) can be done on thicker materials as
long
as you have adequate dies and squeeze machinery.
-Mike
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Galati" <rick6a@y...>
wrote:
> Huh? Unless I misunderstood you, I believe the minimum material
> thickness acceptable for AD rivets using a standard 100 degree
> cutter is .032. In addition, even thinner material such as .025
can
> be safely machine countersunk such as when installing NAS1097-3
> rivets in nutplates. Both examples just outlined and if worked
within
> tolerance, can be machine countersunk without generating an
> unacceptable knife edge.
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <michael@m...> wrote:
> > Actually, I believe the rule is that you may (not must)
countersink
> > anything OVER 0.040in thick. That number is really rivet
diameter
> dependent. You really don't want to countersink anything thin
enough
> to leave a knife edge in the finished hole.
> > -Mike
Author: plaurence@... Time: Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:20 am PST Link
On 20 Mar 2004 at 8:40, plaurence@... wrote:
> On page 6-2 of the manual, it says to countersink. If you try and dimple the spar
flange tou may distort it. If it's slightly wavey, but the skin sits on top reasonably well,
don't worry about it.
Peter
>
> You may dimple up to .040. thicknes.
> Peter
> > i just started my HS and began dimpling. i did not countersink my
> > spars, i dimpled them with the same dimple dies i am dimpling the
> > skins with. is this a problem? did i miss something obvious, i dont
> > know if it says anything in the manual as i left it at the hanger.
> > thanks
> >
> > Dufus
> > -8 EMP.
> > only 5 rivits bucked so far
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> > click here
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> click here
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
Author: "Bob Collins" <bcollins@...> Time: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:19 am PST Link
Must have been a revision because on my plans on 6-2, it says dimple.
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, plaurence@t... wrote:
> On 20 Mar 2004 at 8:40, plaurence@t... wrote:
>
> > On page 6-2 of the manual, it says to countersink. If you try
and dimple the spar
> flange tou may distort it. If it's slightly wavey, but the skin
sits on top reasonably well,
> don't worry about it.
> Peter
> >
> > You may dimple up to .040. thicknes.
> > Peter
> > > i just started my HS and began dimpling. i did not countersink
my
> > > spars, i dimpled them with the same dimple dies i am dimpling
the
> > > skins with. is this a problem? did i miss something obvious, i
dont
> > > know if it says anything in the manual as i left it at the
hanger.
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > Dufus
> > > -8 EMP.
> > > only 5 rivits bucked so far
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > >
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > > click here
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> > click here
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.