Author: "Richard Suffoletto" <rsuffoletto@...> Time: Wed Dec 8, 2004 4:03 pm PST Link
Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was some
question if they would...
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Author: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@...> Time: Wed Dec 8, 2004 5:46 pm PST Link
I just got a great deal and great friendly service form SkySmith Insurance
this past week, on a new builder policy. Glenn in Arizona -9A fuselage.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Suffoletto" <rsuffoletto@hotmail.com>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:01 PM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was some
> question if they would...
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
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Author: "steve zicree" <szicree@...> Time: Wed Dec 8, 2004 5:47 pm PST Link
That's crappy news. I haven't got the call yet, but thanks for the heads-up. Doesn't 57 bucks a month seem like an awful lot of money to insure my plane against essentially fire, theft, and the house caving in on it? I mean, what do we pay for the comprehensive part of our auto policies?
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Suffoletto
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 3:01 PM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was some
question if they would...
Online help on this group at:
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Author: dan b <editor@...> Time: Wed Dec 8, 2004 5:47 pm PST Link
Richard, can you elaborate on what it means that Phx "dropped" out of the market? I live in the Phx area and I am curious why that happened.
Dan
Richard Suffoletto <rsuffoletto@hotmail.com> wrote:
Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was some
question if they would...
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Author: "Larry Bowen" <larry@...> Time: Wed Dec 8, 2004 5:47 pm PST Link
50% increase!! Ouch. How can that be justified for a airplane PROJECT!?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Suffoletto [mailto:rsuffoletto@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:01 PM
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year
> for the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of
> the market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine.
> There was some question if they would...
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Author: luckymacy@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 3:30 am PST Link
what was the amount?
-------------- Original message --------------
> I just got a great deal and great friendly service form SkySmith Insurance
> this past week, on a new builder policy. Glenn in Arizona -9A fuselage.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Suffoletto"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:01 PM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> > insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> > the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> > market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was some
> > question if they would...
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> Online help on this group at:
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Author: luckymacy@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 3:30 am PST Link
Wow, that seems high when in the Good 'ol days of like a year or two no less it was like a dollar a day. Seems like robbery today. How could they justify such a jump in a short time? Are they going to say we are all paying for builders in the South that got hit this hurricane season? Jeez, I'm scared to think what the insurance rates will be at when I start to fly hopefully next year. Hey, how about exporting that business overseas too!
;-)
-------------- Original message --------------
> That's crappy news. I haven't got the call yet, but thanks for the heads-up.
> Doesn't 57 bucks a month seem like an awful lot of money to insure my plane
> against essentially fire, theft, and the house caving in on it? I mean, what do
> we pay for the comprehensive part of our auto policies?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Suffoletto
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 3:01 PM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was some
> question if they would...
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Author: "steve zicree" <szicree@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 3:31 am PST Link
I agree!! I have been paying $400 a year for this coverage, but feel like $680 is getting a bit crazy. By the way, my policy has a $500,000 bodily injury component that accounts for $125 in premium. The remaining $275 covers damage to the project. I think when my renewal comes around I'll try to get rid of the B.I. part.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Bowen
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
50% increase!! Ouch. How can that be justified for a airplane PROJECT!?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Suffoletto [mailto:rsuffoletto@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:01 PM
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year
> for the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of
> the market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine.
> There was some question if they would...
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Author: "PJ" <sparkles_9802@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 6:09 am PST Link
If your insurance is through NationAir, I don't think you can. I am
pretty sure I asked about that when I got mine this last year, and
was told that it was a mandatory part of the policy. I may be wrong
on this; if so, someone please set me straight and tell me who to
talk to, because I really don't need the BI piece.
PJ
RV-10
#40032
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "steve zicree" <szicree@a...>
wrote:
>
> I agree!! I have been paying $400 a year for this coverage, but
feel like $680 is getting a bit crazy. By the way, my policy has a
$500,000 bodily injury component that accounts for $125 in premium.
The remaining $275 covers damage to the project. I think when my
renewal comes around I'll try to get rid of the B.I. part.
>
> Steve Zicree
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Bowen
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:49 PM
> Subject: RE: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> 50% increase!! Ouch. How can that be justified for a airplane
PROJECT!?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@B...
> http://BowenAero.com
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard Suffoletto [mailto:rsuffoletto@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:01 PM
> > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> > insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year
> > for the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of
> > the market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine.
> > There was some question if they would...
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Author: LR Frey <lrogerfrey@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 7:06 am PST Link
Correct PJ, I just got mine last week and it was not an option. By the way Richard, how much coverage is the $680 for? Seems like it should be for upwards of $60,000. My $450 policy covers $40 K plus the liability part that was not dropable..
PJ <sparkles_9802@yahoo.com> wrote:
If your insurance is through NationAir, I don't think you can. I am
pretty sure I asked about that when I got mine this last year, and
was told that it was a mandatory part of the policy. I may be wrong
on this; if so, someone please set me straight and tell me who to
talk to, because I really don't need the BI piece.
PJ
RV-10
#40032
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "steve zicree" <szicree@a...>
wrote:
>
> I agree!! I have been paying $400 a year for this coverage, but
feel like $680 is getting a bit crazy. By the way, my policy has a
$500,000 bodily injury component that accounts for $125 in premium.
The remaining $275 covers damage to the project. I think when my
renewal comes around I'll try to get rid of the B.I. part.
>
> Steve Zicree
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Bowen
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:49 PM
> Subject: RE: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> 50% increase!! Ouch. How can that be justified for a airplane
PROJECT!?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@B...
> http://BowenAero.com
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard Suffoletto [mailto:rsuffoletto@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:01 PM
> > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> > insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year
> > for the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of
> > the market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine.
> > There was some question if they would...
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Author: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 7:07 am PST Link
I was told by both companies that I got quotes from that it was mandatory
also. Glenn in Arizona.
----- Original Message -----
From: "PJ" <sparkles_9802@yahoo.com>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> If your insurance is through NationAir, I don't think you can. I am
> pretty sure I asked about that when I got mine this last year, and
> was told that it was a mandatory part of the policy. I may be wrong
> on this; if so, someone please set me straight and tell me who to
> talk to, because I really don't need the BI piece.
>
> PJ
> RV-10
> #40032
>
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "steve zicree" <szicree@a...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I agree!! I have been paying $400 a year for this coverage, but
> feel like $680 is getting a bit crazy. By the way, my policy has a
> $500,000 bodily injury component that accounts for $125 in premium.
> The remaining $275 covers damage to the project. I think when my
> renewal comes around I'll try to get rid of the B.I. part.
> >
> > Steve Zicree
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Larry Bowen
> > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:49 PM
> > Subject: RE: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > 50% increase!! Ouch. How can that be justified for a airplane
> PROJECT!?
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry@B...
> > http://BowenAero.com
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Richard Suffoletto [mailto:rsuffoletto@h...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:01 PM
> > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> > > insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year
> > > for the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of
> > > the market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine.
> > > There was some question if they would...
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads.
> > > Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
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> > >
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Author: "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 7:07 am PST Link
$276 for a 35K policy thru AIG.
----- Original Message -----
From: <luckymacy@comcast.net>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> what was the amount?
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> > I just got a great deal and great friendly service form SkySmith
Insurance
> > this past week, on a new builder policy. Glenn in Arizona -9A fuselage.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard Suffoletto"
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:01 PM
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> > > insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> > > the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> > > market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was some
> > > question if they would...
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 7:12 am PST Link
As most people should know by now, Phoenix Aviation Managers (the
insurance
company which had supported NationAir's VanGuard Program for the
first 5
years, decided recently to no longer insure RVs (and that was the
only
homebuilt type they covered.) Phoenix is a managing general agency
which
underwrites for Old Republic Insurance Company (that is who the
policies
were thru). Those of you who have policies thru them will be
getting a
non-renewal notice which is required by law, however your renewal
thru
NationAir should be otherwise normal (you send in updated info and
we get
quotes from all the companies and present you the options for the
renewal.)
And in force policies are still perfectly fine, they just won't be
renewing
it for you.
Phoenix had never made any money on the program, and it was quite a
few
policies to service without making any money. They had a management
change,
and upon reviewing their book of business they elected to stop
insuring RVs.
While it is unfortunate that they feel they have to get out of this
market,
they sparked and kept competition going for RV owners for 5 years.
Rates
for RV owners would have been higher over the last 5 years had
Phoenix not
agreed to NationAir's request to offer preferred rates for RVs.
NationAir has always used a variety of markets for VanGuard Program
customers, but Phoenix offered preferred rates to the program, and
thus
wrote coverage for the vast majority of the RVs. AIG and Global's
EAA
program (both available thru NationAir Insurance Agencies) are the
two
companies that are the most competitive for RVs (both builders and
flying
examples) right now.
NationAir intends to remain at the cutting edge for RV insurance.
While AIG
has written RVs for many years, and has about 1500 on the books now,
no
agent had ever invited them to visit the factory. That changed.
NationAir
was proud to take the head of AIG's light aircraft division to visit
Van's
Aircraft last week for the first time. The meeting went very well.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agencies, Light Aircraft Office
P.S. Yes, AIG will cover the AeroSport Power engines as well as many
others.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dan b" <editor@allwritesolutions.com>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> Richard, can you elaborate on what it means that Phx "dropped" out
of the
market? I live in the Phx area and I am curious why that happened.
> Dan
>
> Richard Suffoletto <rsuffoletto@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was
some
> question if they would...
>
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Suffoletto"
<rsuffoletto@h...> wrote:
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was
some
> question if they would...
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 7:15 am PST Link
When Phoenix Aviation Managers was doing a preferred rate program
for our
VanGuard customers, yes they included $500,000 of liability
coverage. This
was primarily for those building on an airport that required
liability due
to a hangar lease. The $125 was just a number they came up with
(literally
out of thin air) because their system didn't like putting coverages
on the
policy without a charge and it would look funny to do it for $1.
AIG's builders risk has to have liability coverage on it as well.
The
lowest they will offer is $250,000 excluding passengers.
Global Aerospaces EAA program (available for any EAA member thru
NationAir)
doesn't automatically include liability but you can add it if
necessary
(i.e. for hangar lease requirement.) And $1 Million excluding
passengers
thru them is $275 added on to the physical damage coverage.
Those are the two companies for both builders risk and flyable RVs
that are
really competitive today. A few other companies claim to do
homebuilts, but
their premium pricing just isn't competitive and/or they won't cover
builders risks nor flying RVs until the owner has 100 hours in it.
Any questions please reply on the list or if you are insured with
NationAir
and have questions you can certainly call.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
----- Original Message -----
From: "PJ" <sparkles_9802@yahoo.com>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> If your insurance is through NationAir, I don't think you can. I
am
> pretty sure I asked about that when I got mine this last year, and
> was told that it was a mandatory part of the policy. I may be
wrong
> on this; if so, someone please set me straight and tell me who to
> talk to, because I really don't need the BI piece.
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "PJ" <sparkles_9802@y...> wrote:
> If your insurance is through NationAir, I don't think you can. I
am
> pretty sure I asked about that when I got mine this last year, and
> was told that it was a mandatory part of the policy. I may be
wrong
> on this; if so, someone please set me straight and tell me who to
> talk to, because I really don't need the BI piece.
>
> PJ
> RV-10
> #40032
>
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "steve zicree" <szicree@a...>
> wrote:
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 7:14 am PST Link
As most people should know by now, Phoenix Aviation Managers (the
insurance
company which had supported NationAir's VanGuard Program for the
first 5
years, decided recently to no longer insure RVs (and that was the
only
homebuilt type they covered.) Phoenix is a managing general agency
which
underwrites for Old Republic Insurance Company (that is who the
policies
were thru). Those of you who have policies thru them will be
getting a
non-renewal notice which is required by law, however your renewal
thru
NationAir should be otherwise normal (you send in updated info and
we get
quotes from all the companies and present you the options for the
renewal.)
And in force policies are still perfectly fine, they just won't be
renewing
it for you.
Phoenix had never made any money on the program, and it was quite a
few
policies to service without making any money. They had a management
change,
and upon reviewing their book of business they elected to stop
insuring RVs.
While it is unfortunate that they feel they have to get out of this
market,
they sparked and kept competition going for RV owners for 5 years.
Rates
for RV owners would have been higher over the last 5 years had
Phoenix not
agreed to NationAir's request to offer preferred rates for RVs.
NationAir has always used a variety of markets for VanGuard Program
customers, but Phoenix offered preferred rates to the program, and
thus
wrote coverage for the vast majority of the RVs. AIG and Global's
EAA
program (both available thru NationAir Insurance Agencies) are the
two
companies that are the most competitive for RVs (both builders and
flying
examples) right now.
NationAir intends to remain at the cutting edge for RV insurance.
While AIG
has written RVs for many years, and has about 1500 on the books now,
no
agent had ever invited them to visit the factory. That changed.
NationAir
was proud to take the head of AIG's light aircraft division to visit
Van's
Aircraft last week for the first time. The meeting went very well.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agencies, Light Aircraft Office
P.S. Yes, AIG will cover the AeroSport Power engines as well as many
others.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dan b" <editor@allwritesolutions.com>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> Richard, can you elaborate on what it means that Phx "dropped" out
of the
market? I live in the Phx area and I am curious why that happened.
> Dan
>
> Richard Suffoletto <rsuffoletto@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was
some
> question if they would...
>
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Suffoletto"
<rsuffoletto@h...> wrote:
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was
some
> question if they would...
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Author: "Jon Baker" <jon@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 9:42 am PST Link
The hull coverage for my flying RV6A also went up about $200. It
would have been more, except Nationair switched me to someone other
than Phoenix. They told me the same thing -- that last year was a
bad year for RV crashes and Phoenix was getting out of the business.
But why a bunch of crashes would effect builder's insurance is a
mystery. Percentage-wise, my rate didn't even go up as much as yours.
I wonder why the insurance companies don't just separate out the
additional risks on RV's. Like they could have a special policy to
cover the flight test period. Or give you a discount if you waive
coverage for aerobatics. Seems to me, if you use it like a Mooney,
it ought to be more insurable than a Mooney -- it doesn't have
retracts and hasn't been rusting away for the last 30 years. And
builders insurance -- man, that's got to be pure profit. Why would
they want out of that business?
Jon.
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Suffoletto"
<rsuffoletto@h...> wrote:
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was
some
> question if they would...
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Author: "Richard Suffoletto" <rsuffoletto@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 9:43 am PST Link
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, LR Frey <lrogerfrey@y...> wrote:
My coverage is for 45 to 75K. Don't ask me why they quote it that
way... With 1 million liability, required by the airport where I
have my hanger.
Richard
> Correct PJ, I just got mine last week and it was not an option.
By the way Richard, how much coverage is the $680 for? Seems like it
should be for upwards of $60,000. My $450 policy covers $40 K plus
the liability part that was not dropable..
>
> PJ <sparkles_9802@y...> wrote:
>
> If your insurance is through NationAir, I don't think you can. I
am
> pretty sure I asked about that when I got mine this last year, and
> was told that it was a mandatory part of the policy. I may be
wrong
> on this; if so, someone please set me straight and tell me who to
> talk to, because I really don't need the BI piece.
>
> PJ
> RV-10
> #40032
> have been removed]
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 9:43 am PST Link
Glenn, your name struck a cord with me as though we'd quoted you
recently but had "lost out" to another agent. I looked up the quote
we got you and it was for a variable value from 25K to 35K, and I
asked the underwriter at AIG that does all of their homebuilts why
Skysmith's quote which you posted on here was lower (for ostensibly
the same coverage according to you).
You are incorrect about the quote you got from Skysmith. It was
merely a 25K maximum value. I would be angery if in fact AIG was
quoting differently. It appeared (based upon your post and our
knowledge of what we'd requested for you) that they were quoting it
differently.
Turns out the info you posted was incorrect. I'd suggest you go
back to Skysmith to confirm what they offered because it is
different than what you indicated here.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch@e...>
wrote:
>
> $276 for a 35K policy thru AIG.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <luckymacy@c...>
> To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > what was the amount?
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > I just got a great deal and great friendly service form
SkySmith
> Insurance
> > > this past week, on a new builder policy. Glenn in Arizona -9A
fuselage.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Richard Suffoletto"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:01 PM
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> > > > insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this
year for
> > > > the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> > > > market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There
was some
> > > > question if they would...
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 9:44 am PST Link
Hi JT,
Since this list is always in flux with new members and builders is it
possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders policies but
for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for us to work
with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I think represent
some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
Examples for a builders policy:
$40K (airframe only)
$85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
$85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real time w/Van's
checkout)
Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time w/endorsement and Van's
checkout.
2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: <jhelms@i1.net>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
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Author: "steve zicree" <szicree@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 9:45 am PST Link
Does the AIG policy reimburse the builder for their time? At what hourly rate? NationAir reimburses at $15 an hour.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Brasch
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
$276 for a 35K policy thru AIG.
----- Original Message -----
From: <luckymacy@comcast.net>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> what was the amount?
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> > I just got a great deal and great friendly service form SkySmith
Insurance
> > this past week, on a new builder policy. Glenn in Arizona -9A fuselage.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard Suffoletto"
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:01 PM
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> > > insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> > > the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> > > market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was some
> > > question if they would...
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: "steve zicree" <szicree@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 10:24 am PST Link
I believe one reason for only offering a one size fits all policy is the impracticallity of determining, after a crash, whether it was during a test, acro, or what have you. Regarding the builder's risk thing, they might have taken a beating due to the hurricanes.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Baker
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:15 AM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
The hull coverage for my flying RV6A also went up about $200. It
would have been more, except Nationair switched me to someone other
than Phoenix. They told me the same thing -- that last year was a
bad year for RV crashes and Phoenix was getting out of the business.
But why a bunch of crashes would effect builder's insurance is a
mystery. Percentage-wise, my rate didn't even go up as much as yours.
I wonder why the insurance companies don't just separate out the
additional risks on RV's. Like they could have a special policy to
cover the flight test period. Or give you a discount if you waive
coverage for aerobatics. Seems to me, if you use it like a Mooney,
it ought to be more insurable than a Mooney -- it doesn't have
retracts and hasn't been rusting away for the last 30 years. And
builders insurance -- man, that's got to be pure profit. Why would
they want out of that business?
Jon.
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Suffoletto"
<rsuffoletto@h...> wrote:
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was
some
> question if they would...
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 10:24 am PST Link
It's a little complicated. On the builders risks, Phoenix was
almost always the best. They covered a range of values during the
policy year, and as long as the end value didn't exceed 75K, the
premium was $400 (unless you added additional liablity). AIG's
pricing is higher than that for similar coverage.
EAA's builders risk is done quite a bit differently. They don't
automatically include liability but can if you ask. They do an
agreed value (just like on a flyable plane). For example, if the
plane is worth $30,000 at the beginning of the year, and you buy an
engine, then you need to change the policy at that time to increase
the value and you'll pay a pro-rated amount of the increased
premium. They do 1% of the value as their price.
We've had covered builders risk losses including an engine stolen,
wind damage, vandalism, theft of avionics. It isn't the wind fall
that you think it is. It is probably a little more profitable to
the companies than the flying RVs, especially with how the companies
are currently quoting it.
JT
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Baker" <jon@s...> wrote:
> The hull coverage for my flying RV6A also went up about $200. It
> would have been more, except Nationair switched me to someone
other
> than Phoenix. They told me the same thing -- that last year was a
> bad year for RV crashes and Phoenix was getting out of the
business.
> But why a bunch of crashes would effect builder's insurance is a
> mystery. Percentage-wise, my rate didn't even go up as much as
yours.
>
> I wonder why the insurance companies don't just separate out the
> additional risks on RV's. Like they could have a special policy
to
> cover the flight test period. Or give you a discount if you waive
> coverage for aerobatics. Seems to me, if you use it like a
Mooney,
> it ought to be more insurable than a Mooney -- it doesn't have
> retracts and hasn't been rusting away for the last 30 years. And
> builders insurance -- man, that's got to be pure profit. Why
would
> they want out of that business?
>
> Jon.
>
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Suffoletto"
> <rsuffoletto@h...> wrote:
> > Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> > insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year
for
> > the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> > market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was
> some
> > question if they would...
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 11:15 am PST Link
That $15 per hour rate is a carry over from the industry standard
for an owner working on his own plane (i.e. an A + P working on his
own Cessna). You're correct that is what Phoenix's policy used.
I have a call in to AIG to confirm what they do. Phoenix's rates on
builders risk were so low comparatively, we never have placed all
that many builders risks with AIG. AIG doesn't specify at what rate
they will reimburse a builder. They don't exclude value for labor,
so it'd be difficult for them to reimburse just for parts. I'll let
you know what they say, though.
The EAA Program includes labor without a specified rate but it does
include a component parts endorsement. That means they'll only pay
out certain percentage for the fuselage, and for the wings, or the
engine, etc if damaged. That means that as an owner, for example,
with $60,000 worth of plane parts, you wouldn't want to tell the
insurance company it's worth $40,000 to save money on the
insurance. If the component parts schedule max's out at 20% for the
fuselage, in that example the most they'd pay out would be $8K.
JT
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "steve zicree" <szicree@a...>
wrote:
>
> Does the AIG policy reimburse the builder for their time? At what
hourly rate? NationAir reimburses at $15 an hour.
>
> Steve Zicree
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Glenn Brasch
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> $276 for a 35K policy thru AIG.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <luckymacy@c...>
> To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > what was the amount?
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > I just got a great deal and great friendly service form
SkySmith
> Insurance
> > > this past week, on a new builder policy. Glenn in Arizona -
9A fuselage.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Richard Suffoletto"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:01 PM
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my
builders
> > > > insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this
year for
> > > > the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of
the
> > > > market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine.
There was some
> > > > question if they would...
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> >
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Author: Mickey Coggins <mc@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 11:16 am PST Link
Amazing - finally I've found something in Switzerland
that is cheaper than in the US - builder's insurance! :-)
I only pay about 200 USD for about 50,000 USD of
coverage and about 4,000,000 USD liability.
It's just added onto my regular house insurance,
even though I'm building in a separately rented
space.
Doesn't exactly make up for all the other stuff
that _is_ more expensive, but I'll take it!
Mickey
> My coverage is for 45 to 75K. Don't ask me why they quote it that
>way... With 1 million liability, required by the airport where I
>have my hanger.
>
> Richard
>
>>>Correct PJ, I just got mine last week and it was not an option.
>>By the way Richard, how much coverage is the $680 for? Seems like it
>>should be for upwards of $60,000. My $450 policy covers $40 K plus
>>the liability part that was not dropable..
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 11:17 am PST Link
Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
40k builders risk $400 to $500
85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
required)
85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to $3000
85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
$2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy above).
All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in a
tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something like
a Citabria.
Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be aware
that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved even
to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
JT
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
<ktlkrn@c...> wrote:
>
> Hi JT,
>
> Since this list is always in flux with new members and builders is
it
> possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
policies but
> for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for us to
work
> with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I think
represent
> some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
>
> Examples for a builders policy:
> $40K (airframe only)
> $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
>
> Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real time
w/Van's
> checkout)
> Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
>
> Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
>
> And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time w/endorsement
and Van's
> checkout.
> 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
>
> Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jhelms@i...>
> To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
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Author: "Brent Travis" <btravis@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 11:34 am PST Link
One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I have about
500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a few in a 185,
the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price vary with say
100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
Brent Travis
N999BT
RV-4
_____
From: jhelms@i1.net [mailto:jhelms@i1.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
40k builders risk $400 to $500
85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
required)
85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to $3000
85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
$2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy above).
All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in a
tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something like
a Citabria.
Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be aware
that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved even
to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
JT
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
<ktlkrn@c...> wrote:
>
> Hi JT,
>
> Since this list is always in flux with new members and builders is
it
> possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
policies but
> for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for us to
work
> with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I think
represent
> some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
>
> Examples for a builders policy:
> $40K (airframe only)
> $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
>
> Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real time
w/Van's
> checkout)
> Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
>
> Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
>
> And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time w/endorsement
and Van's
> checkout.
> 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
>
> Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jhelms@i...>
> To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 12:49 pm PST Link
Only answering because I trust you that it's the last question on
this topic (just kidding).
That much tailwheel time is likely to help a little bit (5%) or so.
Having 200 hours in RVs would also probably help by 5 -10%.
Instrument rating might help 5% (even if the plane isn't IFR).
In general the underwriters who do a lot of RVs are going to count
RV-4 time if you were building an 8 or even a 6. Occasionally,
underwriters who don't know RVs that well get ahold of the quote,
and don't even understand the differences (i.e. side-by-side vs
tandem, horsepower differences, and other differences in the
models.) It is important to be dealing with an agent who knows what
to look for, so if an inexperienced (with RVs) underwriter quotes
it, we'd know to send it back to the underwriters that do know
what's what on RVs for requoting.
Hope that helps.
JT
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Brent Travis" <btravis@i...>
wrote:
>
> One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
have about
> 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a few
in a 185,
> the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
vary with say
> 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> Brent Travis
>
> N999BT
>
> RV-4
> _____
>
> From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
>
> 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> required)
>
> 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
$3000
> 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
>
> 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy above).
>
> All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in a
> tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
like
> a Citabria.
>
> Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be aware
> that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
even
> to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
>
> Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
>
> JT
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> <ktlkrn@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi JT,
> >
> > Since this list is always in flux with new members and builders
is
> it
> > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> policies but
> > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for us
to
> work
> > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
think
> represent
> > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> >
> > Examples for a builders policy:
> > $40K (airframe only)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real time
> w/Van's
> > checkout)
> > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> >
> > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time w/endorsement
> and Van's
> > checkout.
> > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> >
> > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <jhelms@i...>
> > To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
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Author: luckymacy@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 2:45 pm PST Link
whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a Vanguard program?
What happened out there?
-------------- Original message --------------
> One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I have about
> 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a few in a 185,
> the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price vary with say
> 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> Brent Travis
>
> N999BT
>
> RV-4
> _____
>
> From: jhelms@i1.net [mailto:jhelms@i1.net]
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
>
> 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> required)
>
> 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to $3000
> 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
>
> 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy above).
>
> All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in a
> tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something like
> a Citabria.
>
> Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be aware
> that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved even
> to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
>
> Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
>
> JT
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi JT,
> >
> > Since this list is always in flux with new members and builders is
> it
> > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> policies but
> > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for us to
> work
> > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I think
> represent
> > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> >
> > Examples for a builders policy:
> > $40K (airframe only)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real time
> w/Van's
> > checkout)
> > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> >
> > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time w/endorsement
> and Van's
> > checkout.
> > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> >
> > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Author: "Richard & Roberta Hegy" <rhegy@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 2:45 pm PST Link
I paid $750 a year for 80K builders coverage from Falcon. I din't need the full year and the balance was converted to the flight coverage.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: steve zicree
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
That's crappy news. I haven't got the call yet, but thanks for the heads-up. Doesn't 57 bucks a month seem like an awful lot of money to insure my plane against essentially fire, theft, and the house caving in on it? I mean, what do we pay for the comprehensive part of our auto policies?
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Suffoletto
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 3:01 PM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was some
question if they would...
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Author: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@...> Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 6:51 pm PST Link
Again JT thanks for the information. I think this will be helpful for many
of us. Sure thought (since you're a former RW guy) that you'd cut me a
little slack!!!!:)
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: <jhelms@i1.net>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 12:09 PM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
>
> 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> required)
>
> 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to $3000
> 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
>
> 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy above).
>
> All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in a
> tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something like
> a Citabria.
>
> Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be aware
> that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved even
> to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
>
> Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
>
> JT
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> <ktlkrn@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi JT,
> >
> > Since this list is always in flux with new members and builders is
> it
> > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> policies but
> > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for us to
> work
> > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I think
> represent
> > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> >
> > Examples for a builders policy:
> > $40K (airframe only)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real time
> w/Van's
> > checkout)
> > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> >
> > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time w/endorsement
> and Van's
> > checkout.
> > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> >
> > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <jhelms@i...>
> > To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 6:51 pm PST Link
Apparently (I don't understand how), but after my post below some
people have taken to calling Skysmith and inferring that he mis-
represented the quote to Glenn. I don't think that was the case at
all and I didn't intend for that to be inferred from my statement
about Glenn needing to confirm what coverage he got. I think it was
an error, but I do not know whose error it was. In my statement
below, I didn't intend for anyone to infer that Skysmith
intentionally (or otherwise) misrepresented it.
It was likely as simple as Glenn asked for one thing from Skysmith
and something else from us. And in taking in many different quotes
from several agents, he got confused about what the coverage was
that was being offered and went with the lowest quote. My intent
was two fold: 1) to correct the impression I got from Glenn's post
which was that NationAir couldn't do it as cheaply as Skysmith and
2) to make sure Glenn got the coverage he wanted.
I certainly hope that clears this up.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, jhelms@i... wrote:
> Glenn, your name struck a cord with me as though we'd quoted you
> recently but had "lost out" to another agent. I looked up the
quote
> we got you and it was for a variable value from 25K to 35K, and I
> asked the underwriter at AIG that does all of their homebuilts why
> Skysmith's quote which you posted on here was lower (for
ostensibly
> the same coverage according to you).
>
> You are incorrect about the quote you got from Skysmith. It was
> merely a 25K maximum value. I would be angery if in fact AIG was
> quoting differently. It appeared (based upon your post and our
> knowledge of what we'd requested for you) that they were quoting
it
> differently.
>
> Turns out the info you posted was incorrect. I'd suggest you go
> back to Skysmith to confirm what they offered because it is
> different than what you indicated here.
>
> John "JT" Helms
> Branch Manager
> NationAir Insurance Agency
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 6:52 pm PST Link
The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
owners) 5 years ago.
Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
without them making money on that book of business.
There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
were still working very hard for those customers.
For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
very important that the see and understand the risks they are
insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
>
> whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
Vanguard program?
>
> What happened out there?
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
have about
> > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
few in a 185,
> > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
vary with say
> > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > Brent Travis
> >
> > N999BT
> >
> > RV-4
> > _____
> >
> > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> >
> > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > required)
> >
> > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
$3000
> > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> >
> > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
above).
> >
> > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
a
> > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
like
> > a Citabria.
> >
> > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
aware
> > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
even
> > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> >
> > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> >
> > JT
> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi JT,
> > >
> > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
builders is
> > it
> > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > policies but
> > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
us to
> > work
> > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
think
> > represent
> > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > >
> > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > >
> > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
time
> > w/Van's
> > > checkout)
> > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > >
> > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > >
> > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
w/endorsement
> > and Van's
> > > checkout.
> > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > >
> > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > Chandler AZ
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
:/clk.a
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oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
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> > >
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
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> > U.S./Canada
> > >
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
:/clk.a
> >
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
> > > 28979569
> > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> > _____
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Author: luckymacy@... Time: Thu Dec 9, 2004 6:52 pm PST Link
seems like double what i've heard in the past...
-------------- Original message --------------
> I paid $750 a year for 80K builders coverage from Falcon. I din't need the full
> year and the balance was converted to the flight coverage.
>
> Roberta
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: steve zicree
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> That's crappy news. I haven't got the call yet, but thanks for the heads-up.
> Doesn't 57 bucks a month seem like an awful lot of money to insure my plane
> against essentially fire, theft, and the house caving in on it? I mean, what do
> we pay for the comprehensive part of our auto policies?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Suffoletto
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 3:01 PM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
> Got a call from Nationair with the quote to renew my builders
> insurance. Increase from 450.00 last year to 686.00 this year for
> the same coverage. This is due to Phoenix dropping out of the
> market. They are covering the AeroSport 0-360 engine. There was some
> question if they would...
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
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Author: "Bill Swaim" <bill@...> Time: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:19 am PST Link
Whew - no comment. You just gotta love this insurance stuff ; o )
Seems like it would be a bit easier to get the same coverage from two
companies if you asked for the same thing from both, but maybe not. I would
be interested in hearing that both companies offer approx the same coverage
for the same premium. Glenn, please let us know when you get this sorted
out, but please, no one post until you are 110% sure you have all the facts.
Sounds like the differences in premiums that all are paying could just be
due to different coverage, whether you are aware or not.
Bill Swaim - Just received wings & will need some builders insurance
soon..............oh boy, more money!
-----Original Message-----
From: jhelms@i1.net [mailto:jhelms@i1.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 5:01 PM
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Builders insurance.. FYI
Apparently (I don't understand how), but after my post below some people
have taken to calling Skysmith and inferring that he mis- represented the
quote to Glenn. I don't think that was the case at all and I didn't intend
for that to be inferred from my statement about Glenn needing to confirm
what coverage he got. I think it was an error, but I do not know whose
error it was. In my statement below, I didn't intend for anyone to infer
that Skysmith intentionally (or otherwise) misrepresented it.
It was likely as simple as Glenn asked for one thing from Skysmith and
something else from us. And in taking in many different quotes from several
agents, he got confused about what the coverage was that was being offered
and went with the lowest quote. My intent was two fold: 1) to correct the
impression I got from Glenn's post which was that NationAir couldn't do it
as cheaply as Skysmith and
2) to make sure Glenn got the coverage he wanted.
I certainly hope that clears this up.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, jhelms@i... wrote:
> Glenn, your name struck a cord with me as though we'd quoted you
> recently but had "lost out" to another agent. I looked up the
quote
> we got you and it was for a variable value from 25K to 35K, and I
> asked the underwriter at AIG that does all of their homebuilts why
> Skysmith's quote which you posted on here was lower (for
ostensibly
> the same coverage according to you).
>
> You are incorrect about the quote you got from Skysmith. It was
> merely a 25K maximum value. I would be angery if in fact AIG was
> quoting differently. It appeared (based upon your post and our
> knowledge of what we'd requested for you) that they were quoting
it
> differently.
>
> Turns out the info you posted was incorrect. I'd suggest you go
> back to Skysmith to confirm what they offered because it is
> different than what you indicated here.
>
> John "JT" Helms
> Branch Manager
> NationAir Insurance Agency
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