Author: luckymacy@... Time: Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:47 am PST Link
Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone" campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the alternatives.
We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the RV owners and try it.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
> The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> owners) 5 years ago.
>
> Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
>
> Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> without them making money on that book of business.
>
> There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> were still working very hard for those customers.
>
> For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
>
> John "JT" Helms
> Branch Manager
> NationAir Insurance Agency
>
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> >
> > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> Vanguard program?
> >
> > What happened out there?
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> have about
> > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> few in a 185,
> > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> vary with say
> > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > Brent Travis
> > >
> > > N999BT
> > >
> > > RV-4
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > >
> > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > required)
> > >
> > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> $3000
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > >
> > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> above).
> > >
> > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> a
> > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> like
> > > a Citabria.
> > >
> > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> aware
> > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> even
> > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > >
> > > JT
> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi JT,
> > > >
> > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> builders is
> > > it
> > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > policies but
> > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> us to
> > > work
> > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> think
> > > represent
> > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > >
> > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > >
> > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> time
> > > w/Van's
> > > > checkout)
> > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > >
> > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > >
> > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> w/endorsement
> > > and Van's
> > > > checkout.
> > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > >
> > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From:
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
> > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
> > > U.S./Canada
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
> > > > 28979569
> > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > > Terms of Service.
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Online help on this group at:
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: dan b <editor@...> Time: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:21 am PST Link
That's a good idea...this excessive increase in premiums should be challenged. It wouldn't hurt to try and catch the ear of AOPA as well.
Dan
luckymacy@comcast.net wrote:
Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone" campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the alternatives.
We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the RV owners and try it.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
> The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> owners) 5 years ago.
>
> Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
>
> Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> without them making money on that book of business.
>
> There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> were still working very hard for those customers.
>
> For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
>
> John "JT" Helms
> Branch Manager
> NationAir Insurance Agency
>
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> >
> > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> Vanguard program?
> >
> > What happened out there?
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> have about
> > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> few in a 185,
> > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> vary with say
> > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > Brent Travis
> > >
> > > N999BT
> > >
> > > RV-4
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > >
> > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > required)
> > >
> > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> $3000
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > >
> > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> above).
> > >
> > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> a
> > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> like
> > > a Citabria.
> > >
> > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> aware
> > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> even
> > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > >
> > > JT
> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi JT,
> > > >
> > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> builders is
> > > it
> > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > policies but
> > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> us to
> > > work
> > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> think
> > > represent
> > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > >
> > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > >
> > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> time
> > > w/Van's
> > > > checkout)
> > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > >
> > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > >
> > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> w/endorsement
> > > and Van's
> > > > checkout.
> > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > >
> > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From:
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
> > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
> > > U.S./Canada
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
> > > > 28979569
> > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > > Terms of Service.
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Online help on this group at:
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:15 am PST Link
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You cannot force an insurance company to insure something. The
increase in rates is due to Phoenix making a business decision and
no longer covering RVs.
Be happy that they were around for the last 5 years at NationAir's
urging, and keeping the rates down for that long. The rates would
have been much higher over the course of the last 5 years had they
not entered the market.
When we became aware that Phoenix desired to make that change, we
talked with them about rate changes they might make to affect
whether or not they made money on the program. Ultimately, it came
down to the fact that they felt they couldn't charge enough without
pricing themselves higher than the companies we now find ourselves
left with.
The very best way to affect the premiums as a group is to encourage
training and safety. If the companies insuring RVs are having a
good experience, they'll want to write more. That means they'll
compete more with other companies to write them. That basically
means they'll lower their premiums a little.
JT
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, dan b <editor@a...> wrote:
>
> That's a good idea...this excessive increase in premiums should be
challenged. It wouldn't hurt to try and catch the ear of AOPA as
well.
> Dan
>
> luckymacy@c... wrote:
>
> Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start
a "letter/phone" campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the
rates by 10 or more percent as it seems it would still be
considerably cheaper than the alternatives.
>
> We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should
get involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well
as all the RV owners and try it.
>
> Lucky
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to
underwrite
> > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down
for RV
> > owners) 5 years ago.
> >
> > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> >
> > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring
the
> > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > without them making money on that book of business.
> >
> > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners
right
> > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency
and
> > were still working very hard for those customers.
> >
> > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It
is
> > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> >
> > John "JT" Helms
> > Branch Manager
> > NationAir Insurance Agency
> >
> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > >
> > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that
only
> > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > Vanguard program?
> > >
> > > What happened out there?
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time.
I
> > have about
> > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon,
a
> > few in a 185,
> > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the
price
> > vary with say
> > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > Brent Travis
> > > >
> > > > N999BT
> > > >
> > > > RV-4
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > >
> > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > required)
> > > >
> > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > $3000
> > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > >
> > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW
time
> > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > above).
> > > >
> > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW
in
> > a
> > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140...
something
> > like
> > > > a Citabria.
> > > >
> > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > aware
> > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N#
assigned/reserved
> > even
> > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > >
> > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > >
> > > > JT
> > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > >
> > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > builders is
> > > > it
> > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only
builders
> > > > policies but
> > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline
for
> > us to
> > > > work
> > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below
I
> > think
> > > > represent
> > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > >
> > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > >
> > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no
real
> > time
> > > > w/Van's
> > > > > checkout)
> > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > >
> > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > >
> > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > w/endorsement
> > > > and Van's
> > > > > checkout.
> > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From:
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569
> > > > Get unlimited calls to
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
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Author: Charles Kuss <chaskuss@...> Time: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:40 pm PST Link
JT,
I think we all realize that this is America & you
can't force a person or business to do something. I
believe what the folks who are proposing this want, is
to make Phoenix aware that many of their current RV
customers would be willing to pay increased premiums.
I'm sure they hope Phoenix might reconsider their
decision.
Charlie Kuss
--- jhelms@i1.net wrote:
> You cannot force an insurance company to insure
> something. The
> increase in rates is due to Phoenix making a
> business decision and
> no longer covering RVs.
>
> Be happy that they were around for the last 5 years
> at NationAir's
> urging, and keeping the rates down for that long.
> The rates would
> have been much higher over the course of the last 5
> years had they
> not entered the market.
>
> When we became aware that Phoenix desired to make
> that change, we
> talked with them about rate changes they might make
> to affect
> whether or not they made money on the program.
> Ultimately, it came
> down to the fact that they felt they couldn't charge
> enough without
> pricing themselves higher than the companies we now
> find ourselves
> left with.
>
> The very best way to affect the premiums as a group
> is to encourage
> training and safety. If the companies insuring RVs
> are having a
> good experience, they'll want to write more. That
> means they'll
> compete more with other companies to write them.
> That basically
> means they'll lower their premiums a little.
>
> JT
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, dan b
> <editor@a...> wrote:
> >
> > That's a good idea...this excessive increase in
> premiums should be
> challenged. It wouldn't hurt to try and catch the
> ear of AOPA as
> well.
> > Dan
> >
> > luckymacy@c... wrote:
> >
> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd
> start
> a "letter/phone" campaign and consider a counter
> offer to raise the
> rates by 10 or more percent as it seems it would
> still be
> considerably cheaper than the alternatives.
> >
> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think
> the EAA should
> get involved and certainly Van's should get MORE
> involved as well
> as all the RV owners and try it.
> >
> > Lucky
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs
> to NationAir. We
> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation
> Managers to
> underwrite
> > > the program to provide competition (and drive
> the prices down
> for RV
> > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > >
> > > Is there still one company offering preferred
> rates for that
> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected
> to no longer
> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still
> committed to the
> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > >
> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any
> money on insuring
> the
> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company
> out there. They
> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that
> many policies
> > > without them making money on that book of
> business.
> > >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing
> for RV owners
> right
> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's
> program thru Global
> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir
> Insurance Agency
> and
> > > were still working very hard for those
> customers.
> > >
> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent
> to invite AIG's
> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van
> just last week. It
> is
> > > very important that the see and understand the
> risks they are
> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting.
> NationAir plans on
> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV
> owners.
> > >
> > > John "JT" Helms
> > > Branch Manager
> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com,
> luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance
> for TW RVs that I
> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were
> paying? Is that
> only
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is
> there still a
> > > Vanguard program?
> > > >
> > > > What happened out there?
> > > >
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > > One more question, what about different
> amounts of TW time.
> I
> > > have about
> > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5
> in a decathlon,
> a
> > > few in a 185,
> > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4).
> How does the
> price
> > > vary with say
> > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > > Brent Travis
> > > > >
> > > > > N999BT
> > > > >
> > > > > RV-4
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders
> insurance.. FYI
> > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > > >
> > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless
> liability
> > > > > required)
> > > > >
> > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable
> TW time $2750 to
> > > $3000
> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > > >
> > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't
> count) no TW
>
=== message truncated ===
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Author: jhelms@... Time: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:49 pm PST Link
What I meant was that I've already lobbied Phoenix for all 1200
insured RV owners we have in the program all at the same time.
Phoenix knows that if they charged what they needed to to make money
that they would price their policies higher than where AIG and
Global's EAA program are today. So, they elected to throw in the
towel.
JT
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, Charles Kuss <chaskuss@y...>
wrote:
>
> JT,
> I think we all realize that this is America & you
> can't force a person or business to do something. I
> believe what the folks who are proposing this want, is
> to make Phoenix aware that many of their current RV
> customers would be willing to pay increased premiums.
> I'm sure they hope Phoenix might reconsider their
> decision.
> Charlie Kuss
>
> --- jhelms@i... wrote:
> > You cannot force an insurance company to insure
> > something. The
> > increase in rates is due to Phoenix making a
> > business decision and
> > no longer covering RVs.
> >
> > Be happy that they were around for the last 5 years
> > at NationAir's
> > urging, and keeping the rates down for that long.
> > The rates would
> > have been much higher over the course of the last 5
> > years had they
> > not entered the market.
> >
> > When we became aware that Phoenix desired to make
> > that change, we
> > talked with them about rate changes they might make
> > to affect
> > whether or not they made money on the program.
> > Ultimately, it came
> > down to the fact that they felt they couldn't charge
> > enough without
> > pricing themselves higher than the companies we now
> > find ourselves
> > left with.
> >
> > The very best way to affect the premiums as a group
> > is to encourage
> > training and safety. If the companies insuring RVs
> > are having a
> > good experience, they'll want to write more. That
> > means they'll
> > compete more with other companies to write them.
> > That basically
> > means they'll lower their premiums a little.
> >
> > JT
> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, dan b
> > <editor@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > > That's a good idea...this excessive increase in
> > premiums should be
> > challenged. It wouldn't hurt to try and catch the
> > ear of AOPA as
> > well.
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > >
> > > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd
> > start
> > a "letter/phone" campaign and consider a counter
> > offer to raise the
> > rates by 10 or more percent as it seems it would
> > still be
> > considerably cheaper than the alternatives.
> > >
> > > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think
> > the EAA should
> > get involved and certainly Van's should get MORE
> > involved as well
> > as all the RV owners and try it.
> > >
> > > Lucky
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs
> > to NationAir. We
> > > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation
> > Managers to
> > underwrite
> > > > the program to provide competition (and drive
> > the prices down
> > for RV
> > > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > > >
> > > > Is there still one company offering preferred
> > rates for that
> > > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected
> > to no longer
> > > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still
> > committed to the
> > > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > > >
> > > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any
> > money on insuring
> > the
> > > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company
> > out there. They
> > > > didn't feel they could continue to service that
> > many policies
> > > > without them making money on that book of
> > business.
> > > >
> > > > There are 2 other primary companies competing
> > for RV owners
> > right
> > > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's
> > program thru Global
> > > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir
> > Insurance Agency
> > and
> > > > were still working very hard for those
> > customers.
> > > >
> > > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent
> > to invite AIG's
> > > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van
> > just last week. It
> > is
> > > > very important that the see and understand the
> > risks they are
> > > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting.
> > NationAir plans on
> > > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV
> > owners.
> > > >
> > > > John "JT" Helms
> > > > Branch Manager
> > > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > > >
> > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com,
> > luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance
> > for TW RVs that I
> > > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were
> > paying? Is that
> > only
> > > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is
> > there still a
> > > > Vanguard program?
> > > > >
> > > > > What happened out there?
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > > > One more question, what about different
> > amounts of TW time.
> > I
> > > > have about
> > > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5
> > in a decathlon,
> > a
> > > > few in a 185,
> > > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4).
> > How does the
> > price
> > > > vary with say
> > > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > > > Brent Travis
> > > > > >
> > > > > > N999BT
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RV-4
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders
> > insurance.. FYI
> > > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless
> > liability
> > > > > > required)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable
> > TW time $2750 to
> > > > $3000
> > > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't
> > count) no TW
> >
> === message truncated ===
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Author: Ron Lee <ronlee@...> Time: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:38 pm PST Link
Not me. I want mine reduced.
Ron Lee
>I believe what the folks who are proposing this want, is
>to make Phoenix aware that many of their current RV
>customers would be willing to pay increased premiums.
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Author: "Richard & Roberta Hegy" <rhegy@...> Time: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:15 am PST Link
DITTOS!!!! I think as people build time and experience without claims, they should get an annual reduction!!!
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Lee
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
Not me. I want mine reduced.
Ron Lee
>I believe what the folks who are proposing this want, is
>to make Phoenix aware that many of their current RV
>customers would be willing to pay increased premiums.
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