Author: "Ken Simmons" <ken@...> Time: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:09 am PST Link
OK, here is a very subjective question. I recently sold an unfinished RV-8 kit with the intention of buying a flying RV. Based on advise from others I listed and sold the kit for about the price of the basic kits. There was a substantial amount of other items that were "thrown in" as part of the deal.
In my quest to find a flying RV (I'm leaning toward an RV-8A) I found a "close to flying" RV-8A. Like I said, very subjective. It needs the wings installed and finishing of the instrument panel, cowling and baffling. It does have a "0" time engine and CS prop. The asking price is $85K. That seems a little steep to me for a plane not yet flying. The seller has a lot of "extras" that he says justifies the price. I was under the impression from all the advice that I received that these "extras" just sweeten the deal and make it an attractive sale. Am I being unreasonable? Did I sell my kit too cheap?
The benefit of the unfinished kit is that I could verify everything as it went together and with my previous building experience might convince the DAR to give me the repairman's certificate.
The benefit of a flying RV is that IT'S FLYING. Of course, these very quite a bit in price. From the ones I know of for sale now, they very in price from $79K to $117K for an RV-8A. The quality of the airplane varies quite a bit as well, but not necessarily in relation to the price.
That one should get you going on a Sunday morning.
Thanks.
Ken
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Author: "Steve Raddatz" <n667sr@...> Time: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:58 am PST Link
Ken
I have some questions before I say good or bad:
1. How much of the panel is done and what does it have in?
2. What motor?
3. Maker of prop and is it new?
4. Seeing as how the baffling isn't done does it come with a oil cooler and
is the baffling included?
5. Is the entire motor plumbed for example Throttle quad. hooked up, fuel
lines run and etc?
6. Is the prop governor included and is it hooked up?
7. Whats the workmanship look like? PS. Don't swallow it was built by an
A&P, I know some very good A&P's and I know some that I wouldn't let work on
my bicycle.
8. There's seems to be a lot of work left to do, and it sounds like thats
why you sold your first kit.
Just my opinion, but I always have an opinion.
Steve Raddatz
From: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
To: <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 8:08 AM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Unfinished kit/Flying RV
> OK, here is a very subjective question. I recently sold an unfinished RV-8
> kit with the intention of buying a flying RV. Based on advise from others
> I listed and sold the kit for about the price of the basic kits. There was
> a substantial amount of other items that were "thrown in" as part of the
> deal.
>
> In my quest to find a flying RV (I'm leaning toward an RV-8A) I found a
> "close to flying" RV-8A. Like I said, very subjective. It needs the wings
> installed and finishing of the instrument panel, cowling and baffling. It
> does have a "0" time engine and CS prop. The asking price is $85K. That
> seems a little steep to me for a plane not yet flying. The seller has a
> lot of "extras" that he says justifies the price. I was under the
> impression from all the advice that I received that these "extras" just
> sweeten the deal and make it an attractive sale. Am I being unreasonable?
> Did I sell my kit too cheap?
>
> The benefit of the unfinished kit is that I could verify everything as it
> went together and with my previous building experience might convince the
> DAR to give me the repairman's certificate.
>
> The benefit of a flying RV is that IT'S FLYING. Of course, these very
> quite a bit in price. From the ones I know of for sale now, they very in
> price from $79K to $117K for an RV-8A. The quality of the airplane varies
> quite a bit as well, but not necessarily in relation to the price.
>
> That one should get you going on a Sunday morning.
>
> Thanks.
> Ken
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Author: "Richard & Roberta Hegy" <rhegy@...> Time: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:58 am PST Link
Avionics and the newness of engine and prop are the big deciding factors in pricing airplanes, Airframe time and quality are a close second. A zero time engine could be a plus if the rebuild was thorough and by a reputable source. A new engine is obviously better. A poorly done rebuild would be a negative.
My opinion is the asking price is too much. I have 80K in my RV-7A, with a good VFR gyropanel and King KMD150, SL40, SL70, PM300, Bose X headsets, new Lycoming 0-360 A1A, new Hartzell BA C/S prop, nice interior and painted nicely.
There is a lot of work left with the fiberglass and baffling alone. Then there is paint and interior. You have to spend what you think is fair. Like you said, very subjective.
JMHO,
Roberta
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Simmons
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 8:08 AM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Unfinished kit/Flying RV
OK, here is a very subjective question. I recently sold an unfinished RV-8 kit with the intention of buying a flying RV. Based on advise from others I listed and sold the kit for about the price of the basic kits. There was a substantial amount of other items that were "thrown in" as part of the deal.
In my quest to find a flying RV (I'm leaning toward an RV-8A) I found a "close to flying" RV-8A. Like I said, very subjective. It needs the wings installed and finishing of the instrument panel, cowling and baffling. It does have a "0" time engine and CS prop. The asking price is $85K. That seems a little steep to me for a plane not yet flying. The seller has a lot of "extras" that he says justifies the price. I was under the impression from all the advice that I received that these "extras" just sweeten the deal and make it an attractive sale. Am I being unreasonable? Did I sell my kit too cheap?
The benefit of the unfinished kit is that I could verify everything as it went together and with my previous building experience might convince the DAR to give me the repairman's certificate.
The benefit of a flying RV is that IT'S FLYING. Of course, these very quite a bit in price. From the ones I know of for sale now, they very in price from $79K to $117K for an RV-8A. The quality of the airplane varies quite a bit as well, but not necessarily in relation to the price.
That one should get you going on a Sunday morning.
Thanks.
Ken
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Author: "SteinAir, Inc." <flyboyyy@...> Time: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:59 am PST Link
IMHO, I would never pay that much for an unfinished kit. With that
much work still left, you have more work that it may seem like. The
last 10% can take a significant amount of time. Even with a bunch
of "extras", it's highly unlikely that the builder actually has $85K
in parts alone. Usually, your sweat equity (labor) is worthless
until that first flight (or airworthiness certificate). That's
usually the case whether you have 1 hour into the kit or 1,000 hours
into the kit.
As a general rule, until that first flight, most planes are only
worth the prices of the parts they are compriosed of. As they say,
that first flight is a $20,000+ flight! That certficate is worth a
bunch of money.
The items you mentioned that are left could very well still take
many months & many hours to complete.
If it were me, I'd either buy one that is valued correctly (I know
people really want to get money for their time) or add another 20%
and buy a finished one.
Just my 2 cents,
Stein.
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Simmons" <ken@t...> wrote:
>
> OK, here is a very subjective question. I recently sold an
unfinished RV-8 kit with the intention of buying a flying RV. Based
on advise from others I listed and sold the kit for about the price
of the basic kits. There was a substantial amount of other items
that were "thrown in" as part of the deal.
>
> In my quest to find a flying RV (I'm leaning toward an RV-8A) I
found a "close to flying" RV-8A. Like I said, very subjective. It
needs the wings installed and finishing of the instrument panel,
cowling and baffling. It does have a "0" time engine and CS prop.
The asking price is $85K. That seems a little steep to me for a
plane not yet flying. The seller has a lot of "extras" that he says
justifies the price. I was under the impression from all the advice
that I received that these "extras" just sweeten the deal and make
it an attractive sale. Am I being unreasonable? Did I sell my kit
too cheap?
>
> The benefit of the unfinished kit is that I could verify
everything as it went together and with my previous building
experience might convince the DAR to give me the repairman's
certificate.
>
> The benefit of a flying RV is that IT'S FLYING. Of course, these
very quite a bit in price. From the ones I know of for sale now,
they very in price from $79K to $117K for an RV-8A. The quality of
the airplane varies quite a bit as well, but not necessarily in
relation to the price.
>
> That one should get you going on a Sunday morning.
>
> Thanks.
> Ken
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Author: "steve zicree" <szicree@...> Time: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:37 am PST Link
Ken,
That's a lot of money for an unfinished plane. I'm wrapping up my "finishing" kit and am still a LONG way from finished. On the other hand, cool avionics and a new engine are worth a lot. One other thing that could be a concern is the fact that the wings have not been fitted. It should be no big deal, but occasionally something goes wrong in the fuse and/or wing construction and the wings don't fit. I remember one case where the wings were actually built with the spar upside down!!! This, of course, required a completely new wing build. It's unlikely, but something worth checking before writing a check for 85,000
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Simmons
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 6:08 AM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Unfinished kit/Flying RV
OK, here is a very subjective question. I recently sold an unfinished RV-8 kit with the intention of buying a flying RV. Based on advise from others I listed and sold the kit for about the price of the basic kits. There was a substantial amount of other items that were "thrown in" as part of the deal.
In my quest to find a flying RV (I'm leaning toward an RV-8A) I found a "close to flying" RV-8A. Like I said, very subjective. It needs the wings installed and finishing of the instrument panel, cowling and baffling. It does have a "0" time engine and CS prop. The asking price is $85K. That seems a little steep to me for a plane not yet flying. The seller has a lot of "extras" that he says justifies the price. I was under the impression from all the advice that I received that these "extras" just sweeten the deal and make it an attractive sale. Am I being unreasonable? Did I sell my kit too cheap?
The benefit of the unfinished kit is that I could verify everything as it went together and with my previous building experience might convince the DAR to give me the repairman's certificate.
The benefit of a flying RV is that IT'S FLYING. Of course, these very quite a bit in price. From the ones I know of for sale now, they very in price from $79K to $117K for an RV-8A. The quality of the airplane varies quite a bit as well, but not necessarily in relation to the price.
That one should get you going on a Sunday morning.
Thanks.
Ken
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
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